About 10 minutes from the end, after he was subbed, Marler strode up the steps of the West Stand looking like thunder and had about a minute's agitated conversation with the lady on the gate who was keeping the plebs out of the VIP area. Couldn't hear the conversation, but he was not a happy bunny. Was he looking for Ellis to tell him "enough is enough"? Clearly he wasn't after Kingston, because he knew that he was in the viewing gallery, and he could have gone up the stepladder to get to him if he'd wanted.
NB I didn't see Kingston come down at the end. Easter did, but he left via the internal route in the stand, clearly to avoid encountering the supporters. Maybe Kingston is still up there?
NB I didn't see Kingston come down at the end. Easter did, but he left via the internal route in the stand, clearly to avoid encountering the supporters. Maybe Kingston is still up there?
Marler was asking for Ellis and said he wanted to speak to him after the game. He looked furious.
Kingston waited until the very final seconds and went into the boxes rather than down the stairs in the stand. First time he’s done that. I think the end is v near
Kingston waited until the very final seconds and went into the boxes rather than down the stairs in the stand. First time he’s done that. I think the end is v near
Maybe he just got lost!!!!
He had a glaring contest with those of us of a vocal disposition in GA of the North Stand after the second or third Irish try.
Maybe JK sacked and Joe wanted to plead that JK should stay?
Maybe he wants a job, realises all the other ex players get a coaching role
Joe Marler is massive close up. What a beast.
I can understand the coaches not wanting to face the fans after that performance! Agreed at one level no-one coached Mike Brown to have the worst game I've ever seen him play, but SOMETHING IS CLEARLY UP! Mike has his own high standards he always strives to meet, and today he didn't even meet his low standards.
Everyone was infected. We were joking that some Far Eastern betting syndicate had nobbled the players to each make some sort of Howler of a mistake. Balls dropped, passes to Harvey the Winger (at least twice), stupid penalties, forward passes, interfering with players in the air, losing possession in a number of ways, 2 yellow cards - the penalty count is going to make terrible reading. I remarked maybe the betting syndicate had an accumulator on us giving away 50 penalties.
Everyone was infected. We were joking that some Far Eastern betting syndicate had nobbled the players to each make some sort of Howler of a mistake. Balls dropped, passes to Harvey the Winger (at least twice), stupid penalties, forward passes, interfering with players in the air, losing possession in a number of ways, 2 yellow cards - the penalty count is going to make terrible reading. I remarked maybe the betting syndicate had an accumulator on us giving away 50 penalties.
Quote:GP2110
... I think the end is v near
Let us hope so.
Quote:Bucksquin
About 10 minutes from the end, after he was subbed, Marler strode up the steps of the West Stand looking like thunder and had about a minute's agitated conversation with the lady on the gate who was keeping the plebs out of the VIP area. Couldn't hear the conversation, but he was not a happy bunny. Was he looking for Ellis to tell him "enough is enough"? Clearly he wasn't after Kingston, because he knew that he was in the viewing gallery, and he could have gone up the stepladder to get to him if he'd wanted.
NB I didn't see Kingston come down at the end. Easter did, but he left via the internal route in the stand, clearly to avoid encountering the supporters. Maybe Kingston is still up there?
Um... That would be Anne McCarthy, Ellis' PA. I know the club's in turmoil, but I don't think it's fair to demote her like that!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2018 18:37 by The Dead Baron.
Well, we didn't play like this last game.
Therefore, with my Sherlock Holmes deerstalker on, something has happened between last game and this which has greatly upset the players. (Mike Brown obviously off his game, Joe Marler incandescent with rage at something)
It happened recently, or the players would be more calmed down. An announcement prior to the game today?
It involved David Ellis or why did Marler want to see him so badly?
So something David Ellis did/said which upset the team prior to playing today...
Something is afoot! What?
Therefore, with my Sherlock Holmes deerstalker on, something has happened between last game and this which has greatly upset the players. (Mike Brown obviously off his game, Joe Marler incandescent with rage at something)
It happened recently, or the players would be more calmed down. An announcement prior to the game today?
It involved David Ellis or why did Marler want to see him so badly?
So something David Ellis did/said which upset the team prior to playing today...
Something is afoot! What?
A guy near us shouted Kingston out Joe who had been taken off by then stood up looked over and smiled he then walked up the stairs to where Kingston was with a face that could have turned people into stone and was not allowed to get to him by the stewards
Can anyone clarify was Marler trying to see Ellis or Kingston? I seem to have two different stories here.
Id go the opposite. I think this has been brewing for a while and with the way the game went marler lost it at went to ask Ellis why the coaches have been given extns when we are obviously so gash
It looked like he was trying to get into the large corporate box in the below JK's ivory tower rather than up the ladder
West Stand, Block FD, Row S (if renewed)
@JT075 #COYQ
West Stand, Block FD, Row S (if renewed)
@JT075 #COYQ
LI fan in peace here.
Didn't get to the game - would have but with 50,000 Bath/Tigers supporters also trying to park in the residents areas I decided not to.
But is there just the slightest chance that you were out played and out thought, and lost to the better team on the day?
Maybe, just maybe, LI's new management team had you worked out?
Didn't get to the game - would have but with 50,000 Bath/Tigers supporters also trying to park in the residents areas I decided not to.
But is there just the slightest chance that you were out played and out thought, and lost to the better team on the day?
Maybe, just maybe, LI's new management team had you worked out?
Quote:Pete Sake
LI fan in peace here.
Didn't get to the game - would have but with 50,000 Bath/Tigers supporters also trying to park in the residents areas I decided not to.
But is there just the slightest chance that you were out played and out thought, and lost to the better team on the day?
Maybe, just maybe, LI's new management team had you worked out?
Are you sure?
Quote:Pete Sake
LI fan in peace here.
Didn't get to the game - would have but with 50,000 Bath/Tigers supporters also trying to park in the residents areas I decided not to.
But is there just the slightest chance that you were out played and out thought, and lost to the better team on the day?
Maybe, just maybe, LI's new management team had you worked out?
Very true but on the day Quins offered very little for you to either out think or out play. Good performance from Irish today, much better team on the day.
Quote:Pete Sake
LI fan in peace here.
Didn't get to the game - would have but with 50,000 Bath/Tigers supporters also trying to park in the residents areas I decided not to.
But is there just the slightest chance that you were out played and out thought, and lost to the better team on the day?
Maybe, just maybe, LI's new management team had you worked out?
Maybe, just maybe, that’s the problem!
Yep, but my argument for a long time has been it does not take much to out think/out play quins these days. No one really has to play well to beat us!!
We do the same thing every match and everyone has us worked out. That's the issue. Well done LI.
Joe summed it up on Twitter, sorry fans you deserve better, or words to that effect
Today was dire
So are the players playing badly to show unhappy the6 are, or are they just playing badly due to coaching?
I’ve no idea but something has to change
Today was dire
So are the players playing badly to show unhappy the6 are, or are they just playing badly due to coaching?
I’ve no idea but something has to change
Come on , somebody must know somebody that knows somebody who knows what's going on.
Arniepie ! Where are you in our hour of need?
Arniepie ! Where are you in our hour of need?
Apologies don’t wash - we’ve had them before! All at the club should leave. Nothing works, everything is rubbish
RleQ
RleQ
Quote:Pete Sake
LI fan in peace here.
Didn't get to the game - would have but with 50,000 Bath/Tigers supporters also trying to park in the residents areas I decided not to.
But is there just the slightest chance that you were out played and out thought, and lost to the better team on the day?
Maybe, just maybe, LI's new management team had you worked out?
There were two teams on the pitch. One played a lot better than the other. One team wanted it, one didn't.
Hurts me to say it, but all credit to LI.
Anyone reminded of the Six Nations - England v Ireland game by any chance?
Quote:QuickerQuinQuote:Pete Sake
LI fan in peace here.
Didn't get to the game - would have but with 50,000 Bath/Tigers supporters also trying to park in the residents areas I decided not to.
But is there just the slightest chance that you were out played and out thought, and lost to the better team on the day?
Maybe, just maybe, LI's new management team had you worked out?
There were two teams on the pitch. One played a lot better than the other. One team wanted it, one didn't.
Hurts me to say it, but all credit to LI.
Anyone reminded of the Six Nations - England v Ireland game by any chance?
England scored 3 tries and actually looked like putting some play together. Quins didn’t even come close to doing anything like that yesterday.
Just before Joe walking up the stand to try to see JK a guy near me started looking up at JK and shouting very loudly "Kingston Out". A few others joined in and I think if the guy had continued many more would have as well.
Anyway Joe heard this and stood up as he had been taken off by now, he stood up and looked over at where the guy was sitting. He stood for quite a while and just smiled and nodded.
I think we are in huge trouble. JK clearly is not respected by the players and he has just signed a 3 year contract.
I fear that many will not renew when the contract is due.
I also have huge fears that if this ringfencing that is being mooted comes in it is at exactly the wrong time for Quins.
I can genuinely see us being relegated as we could lose to anyone now. Yesterday was the wqorst I have seen in over 25 years of being a Quins fan. We are in desperate trouble.
is
Anyway Joe heard this and stood up as he had been taken off by now, he stood up and looked over at where the guy was sitting. He stood for quite a while and just smiled and nodded.
I think we are in huge trouble. JK clearly is not respected by the players and he has just signed a 3 year contract.
I fear that many will not renew when the contract is due.
I also have huge fears that if this ringfencing that is being mooted comes in it is at exactly the wrong time for Quins.
I can genuinely see us being relegated as we could lose to anyone now. Yesterday was the wqorst I have seen in over 25 years of being a Quins fan. We are in desperate trouble.
is
We won't get relegated this season - even if we lose all our remaining matches (on of which is against Worcester) LI have to play Exeter, Sarries, and Bath and they'll need to get bonus point wins from all those games to overhaul us.That ain't happening. I do agree, though, if something isn't done soon we'll be in the poo next term.
Maybe Joe is looking to show other teams that he wants to leave?
Thing that I do not understand though, why are players still re signing if they are unhappy???
Quote:Closer & Closer
Maybe Joe is looking to show other teams that he wants to leave?
He'd get a lower price if he wanted away.
If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.
Quote:HonkyTonk
Thing that I do not understand though, why are players still re signing if they are unhappy???
Rugby contracts generally 2 years. Players who have only known one club who are married with young families trying to get their kids in good schools etc will side with the devil they know and suck up any issues.
I'm more worried about Sinks/Jack/Marchant etc. If they stopped re-signing, then we'd have an issue.
Such a shame. One of the worse performances I have seen from Quins. I hate criticising the players and / or the coaches. But it clearly isn't working. I think the CEO and the Board of Directors have to take a good long look as to why a talented squad is not performing. I would not envy their job. But they will need to get under the skin of what exactly is happening. The Internationals and those vying for places in International squads must be worried. This isn't doing their chances any good - and with the World Cup fast approaching. Sorry to be so negative. I love this club. I worry for its reputation and standing - if this is allowed to continue.
Why are you being so apologetic? They are all professionals and we are paying to watch hem. The least we can’t expect is effort.
The coaching team and the players all need to take a serious look in the mirror. If most of us turned up to our jobs and performed as poorly, we’d all be flirting with the sack.
It’s not disloyal to want answers to valid questions.
The coaching team and the players all need to take a serious look in the mirror. If most of us turned up to our jobs and performed as poorly, we’d all be flirting with the sack.
It’s not disloyal to want answers to valid questions.
Just been told on solid authority that Marler was looking for Ellis, not JK.
Fits my theory that Ellis had done/said something just before the game to upset the team.
No wonder Ellis has skipped off the Quinssa event tomorrow, even the players want a piece of him!
I hope Joe isn't looking to blame anyone else for his own poor performance.
Quote:DOK
Fits my theory that Ellis had done/said something just before the game to upset the team.
Or that he finally lost it after this brewing for a while and went to find out why nothing is being done
I hope Joe finds Ellis, at least it means Ellis bothers to turn up to watch.
As much as I agree with giving the opposition credit, there's no hiding from the fact that we were dismal across the board. Irish didn't make us pass into touch or give away stupid penalties and cards or make us pass forward or run into each other. You can be beaten by a better team while not playing badly, or be beaten by a better team that also makes you look bad with pressure, but our effort yesterday was absolutely appalling.
O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis
O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis
Quote:WoTQuin
No wonder Ellis has skipped off the Quinssa event tomorrow, even the players want a piece of him!
The guy's busy abroad on Harlequins business. Read the news before hiding behind your screen whilst posting that rubbish comment!
He has rescheduled the event. I guess you're (not) going to be there and state your concerns personally to the man.. Right?
Tells you all you need to know (look carefully in case you miss it the first time)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2018 07:13 by Scamble.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2018 07:13 by Scamble.
Quote:
Yep. Worrying but not surprising.
Does anyone know when our "big name" players are ooc (off the top of their head)??
I'm thinking Marler, Robshaw etc
I'm thinking Marler, Robshaw etc
Quote:HonkyTonk
Does anyone know when our "big name" players are ooc (off the top of their head)??
I'm thinking Marler, Robshaw etc
[www.telegraph.co.uk]
[www.bbc.co.uk]
Care last signed 2015 - so assume this summer
Likewise Brown - so unless either of them signed for more than three years
Joe Marler must be soon. Did he not sign then practically the next day or following week Conor O'Shea resigned.
He certainly is one of most vocal critic of JK. He is diplomatic about it but during a 5 live rugby show he said that the appointmetn and extension of JK raised eyebrows with certain team memebrs but he does not make the decision he just plays.
He certainly is one of most vocal critic of JK. He is diplomatic about it but during a 5 live rugby show he said that the appointmetn and extension of JK raised eyebrows with certain team memebrs but he does not make the decision he just plays.
Cheers. I may get shot down for this but......I would not think the sky has fallen in if Brown left. Care would be a blow but not terminal. Robshaw and Marler are the ones for me, plus Sink if he sorts himself out (which I wonder may be down to the current situation).
I wonder if "player power" may push Ellis hand re jk and the coaches
Serious question. Which top 4 or 6 sides would want Brown, Care, Marler?
I don't mean it as a criticism of the players just that they'd be Marquee money players likely not available during Internationals. Given their ages (not sure about Marler) they might be of interest after the RWC when they're no longer Internationals.
For clubs outside the top 6 would those players want to go there?
I don't mean it as a criticism of the players just that they'd be Marquee money players likely not available during Internationals. Given their ages (not sure about Marler) they might be of interest after the RWC when they're no longer Internationals.
For clubs outside the top 6 would those players want to go there?
Apart from Marler I agree. He is still a top player but I think the current situation at the club is possibly affecting performance
Quote:OldMarovian
Serious question. Which top 4 or 6 sides would want Brown, Care, Marler?
I don't mean it as a criticism of the players just that they'd be Marquee money players likely not available during Internationals. Given their ages (not sure about Marler) they might be of interest after the RWC when they're no longer Internationals.
For clubs outside the top 6 would those players want to go there?
Marler is still young enough but of the top 5/6 clubs, I can only see Wasps potentially and Newcastle as potential destinations, the others in the top 4 already have top looseheads.
I agree about the others, their age profile and the fact that they actually go away with England does not mke them very desirable signings
Quote:Barnetsarrie12Quote:OldMarovian
Serious question. Which top 4 or 6 sides would want Brown, Care, Marler?
I don't mean it as a criticism of the players just that they'd be Marquee money players likely not available during Internationals. Given their ages (not sure about Marler) they might be of interest after the RWC when they're no longer Internationals.
For clubs outside the top 6 would those players want to go there?
Marler is still young enough but of the top 5/6 clubs, I can only see Wasps potentially and Newcastle as potential destinations, the others in the top 4 already have top looseheads.
I agree about the others, their age profile and the fact that they actually go away with England does not mke them very desirable signings
I agree. On a broader point I can barely see the benefit to any club of signing England internationals anymore.
Quote:Dave LQuote:Barnetsarrie12Quote:OldMarovian
Serious question. Which top 4 or 6 sides would want Brown, Care, Marler?
I don't mean it as a criticism of the players just that they'd be Marquee money players likely not available during Internationals. Given their ages (not sure about Marler) they might be of interest after the RWC when they're no longer Internationals.
For clubs outside the top 6 would those players want to go there?
Marler is still young enough but of the top 5/6 clubs, I can only see Wasps potentially and Newcastle as potential destinations, the others in the top 4 already have top looseheads.
I agree about the others, their age profile and the fact that they actually go away with England does not mke them very desirable signings
Is the answer to sign players who just good enough to play at international level but can't displace the incumbents in their position. Bit like Exeter perhaps?
I agree. On a broader point I can barely see the benefit to any club of signing England internationals anymore.
I think that if Joe was going to leave, it would need to be an easy commute from his home. I can't see him moving home. That would make LI the only real alternative (and maybe Sarries). As he was a Quins supporter before he was a player, I somehow can't see him moving to Sarries. I actually think that if he were to leave Quins, one option that he may consider would be retiring.
Quote:never sleep
I think that if Joe was going to leave, it would need to be an easy commute from his home. I can't see him moving home. That would make LI the only real alternative (and maybe Sarries). As he was a Quins supporter before he was a player, I somehow can't see him moving to Sarries. I actually think that if he were to leave Quins, one option that he may consider would be retiring.
Maybe that's what hurts him the most...
Quote:Scrumhead
Why are you being so apologetic? They are all professionals and we are paying to watch hem. The least we can’t expect is effort.
The coaching team and the players all need to take a serious look in the mirror. If most of us turned up to our jobs and performed as poorly, we’d all be flirting with the sack.
It’s not disloyal to want answers to valid questions.
I totally agree. Could't say it any better.
Just keep in mind that no leaving player from Quins, can go to another Premiership club as a marquee player. Marquee players must arrive from outside the league.
So where would the top players go?
Scotland, Ireland, Wales.........? Unlikely!
Another Premiership club.........? Most probable
France......... Depends on family, international aspirations!
So where would the top players go?
Scotland, Ireland, Wales.........? Unlikely!
Another Premiership club.........? Most probable
France......... Depends on family, international aspirations!
I could easily see Care and Brown going to France.
Eddie Jones will have to take some radical decisions after this 6 nations. Much as I love Mike Brown, he has lost pace and is not the force he used to be. I think he and Danny may well be the fall guys for that 6 nations performance. If that is the case, I wouldn't blame them going to France for a pay day, and TBH if JK needs to stamp his authority on a set of players, it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't try to hard to stop them going.
Jo is a different matter, he has 4 or 5 more years of top class rugby in him and I'd love to see him stay. If he's not buying into the current coaching set up though, how hard would they try to keep him?
Chris deserves to stay as long as he wants, he has been an amazing servant of the club and a great ambassador - hope he stays.
With the exception of Dombrandt, I can't see how the new players coming in are going to create a huge momentum shift, so I'm not too excited about next year.
Anyone else wonder what is going on with Rowntree? Our lineourts are a shambles, and our ability to drive a maul forward is non existent. Our defence of oppo mauls is shocking, and our scrum statistically is one of the worst in the league.
Some changes need to be made in the coaching staff in the off season surely? Maybe that would even persuade Jo to stay?
Jo is a different matter, he has 4 or 5 more years of top class rugby in him and I'd love to see him stay. If he's not buying into the current coaching set up though, how hard would they try to keep him?
Chris deserves to stay as long as he wants, he has been an amazing servant of the club and a great ambassador - hope he stays.
With the exception of Dombrandt, I can't see how the new players coming in are going to create a huge momentum shift, so I'm not too excited about next year.
Anyone else wonder what is going on with Rowntree? Our lineourts are a shambles, and our ability to drive a maul forward is non existent. Our defence of oppo mauls is shocking, and our scrum statistically is one of the worst in the league.
Some changes need to be made in the coaching staff in the off season surely? Maybe that would even persuade Jo to stay?
A marquee player is an athlete who is considered exceptionally popular, skilled or otherwise outstanding, especially in professional sports.
Quote:HonkyTonk
Apart from Marler I agree. He is still a top player but I think the current situation at the club is possibly affecting performance
There are two sides to this coin. Yes, I can see how it might affect a player; and yet Robshaw still plays out of his skin every game. So what does that say about the attitudes of different players? I'm not criticising anyone here, but it just adds to the conundrum of what can actually be wrong at the club.
Quote:Stooperman
Eddie Jones will have to take some radical decisions after this 6 nations. Much as I love Mike Brown, he has lost pace and is not the force he used to be. I think he and Danny may well be the fall guys for that 6 nations performance.
Eddie Jones has always said he wants 3 players competing for every position. Thinking about the RWC he also knows that he can not play Mike Brown in every game for a full 80 min. So Anthony Watson was brought in to give him game time at FB. That was a decision made for long term strategic reasons, not because Mike Brown has lost pace and power. If anything the poor performance of Watson at FB has cemented Brown as the number one choice.
Danny has a role to play as the finishing no 9 when he can increase game tempo. During the 6N Eddie Jones used him as a starter because his preferred man was injured. He also did as expected, went to his 3rd choice player rather than start someone new.
Not quite sure this has anything to do with the performance at the weekend. As I see it the actions of Eddie Jones are entirely consistent with what he has previously said. Both MB and DC will stay in the team and both will go the the RWC.
If you want fall guys then the 'mash up' from 4 to 8 seems to be the start point.
seems like the DM see it as more than just a 'one man protest'
[www.dailymail.co.uk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2018 11:31 by ChipsteadQuin.
[www.dailymail.co.uk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2018 11:31 by ChipsteadQuin.
Quote:
To be fair there isn't a single quote or fact in that article, so talk of 'mutiny' is based on very little.
That said, it's not wrong about our problems.
Quote:talkshowhost86Quote:
To be fair there isn't a single quote or fact in that article, so talk of 'mutiny' is based on very little.
That said, it's not wrong about our problems.
Article is based on nothing. Not a single example of players “staging a mutiny” or indeed voicing their concerns publicly.
As Marls came back down the stairs and into the dug out after his hapless journey to find Mr Ellis, he has a jesticulated conversation with Sinks and then DC which looked a lot like "I want a word in private". Marls then stalked off downt he tunnel and DC looked around for a bit then followed although he returned a few moments later - to be fair, he was in the bin at the time and it was before he was subbed. I presume Marls wanted to vent with his peers.
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