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Quins4life (IP Logged)
09 April, 2018 23:03
Interesting article by the guy who broke the news about Kingston. Sounds like he is only the first to go... [www.rugbypass.com]

"Harlequins failure to qualify for the European Champions Cup is the reason John Kingston lost his job as director of rugby and other members of the coaching set-up could also face the axe.

RugbyPass understands that an audit of the coaches is currently underway following a dismal season that sees the former Premiership champions with just seven wins from their 19 league matches to date having also failed to make any impact on their return to Champions Cup after three seasons of failing to qualify for Europeís premier competition.

High profile players such as Joe Marler Chris Robshaw and Kyle Sinckler took to social media to apologise to the fans who had booed at the final whistle after the dreadful performance in the 35-5 loss to bottom club London Irish on Saturday.

It was a defeat that increased the view that Kingston had lost the dressing room, however, we have been assured this is not the case.

Kingston, who will leave his role after 17 years with the club at the end of the season, was tasked with driving the team into the top four and ensuring Champions Cup rugby and has paid the price of failure to achieve both targets. Now, the focus will fall on head coach Mark Mapletoft, forwards coach Graham Rowntree, defence coach Nick Easter, attack coach Nick Evans, skills coach Colin Osborne and assistant forwards coach Adam Jones.

Quins are, we also understand, in the process of assembling the panel that will oversee the worldwide search for a replacement for Kingston although the emphasis may switch to appointing a high profile head coach as the focal point for a new regime with a director of rugby then tasked with handling player contracts and negotiations with agents along with other off the field matters.

Quins chiefs accept that with just over a year until the World Cup in Japan, their task may be more complicated with a number of high profile jobs possibly becoming available after that tournament. The club, one of the great names of the game, is playing down the recent agreement signed with the New Zealand RFU insisting that was being discussed for nearly two years and does not involve any input into the in the running of the professional rugby side of the club.

Instead, it revolves around coaching and playing opportunities for members of the menís and womenís sections along with commercial co-operation as Addidas are involved with both parties.

Stuart Lancaster, the former England coach, will be one of the favourites to land the job but he has recently signed a new deal with Leinster where he has made such a major impact following the 2015 World Cup debacle. Lancaster is keen to experience coaching in the Southern Hemisphere and Quins will have to work hard to convince the Leeds based coach to get involved in English rugby again."

 
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DOK (IP Logged)
09 April, 2018 23:15
As I said, I bet David Ellis is a "manage by targets" man. JK's minimum target was top 6 and he missed. Presumably he made the defence of injuries, international call ups etc... but it was in vain.

Given the number of high profile players who re-signed contracts under JK, I never actually believed he'd lost the dressing room. He just lost the confidence of senior management. And after all, they appointed him after this huge world wide search for a DOR, they gave him that vote of confidence (which any football manager could have warned you about) by giving him the new contract and then when the time was right they threw him under the bus in order to appease the rabble with pitchforks and torches.

After all, if they hadn't done that, people might start looking anywhere for an explanation.

 
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Quaking Quin (IP Logged)
09 April, 2018 23:40
...people might also have had to get used to watching Championship level rugby after next season.


However DOK, I do not see how you can blame senior management for Saturday's 'lethargic' performance rather than JK and the coaching team after a two week break, near enough a full 1st XV, all their England internationals and pride to play for at a local derby.

 
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Robertquin (IP Logged)
09 April, 2018 23:51
I must admit that I don't see how the on pitch ball dropping, stream of stupid penalties and general impression that our team were completely uncquainted with each other, any semblance of a game plan or the concept of tackling that we endured last Saturday can be laid at the door of our DOR. How do you address that?

 
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blucherquin (IP Logged)
10 April, 2018 06:57
Well according to Ugo in the podcast he lost the dressing room.

 
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Closer & Closer (IP Logged)
10 April, 2018 08:10
JK statements that Quins squad is the most talented is scewed by the players performance on saturday...agree that the players just couldn't seem to be bothered to pass properly or defend properly such a waste of their talents.

Just seemed as though they wanted to push the management hand to instigate change.

 
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jonf (IP Logged)
10 April, 2018 08:17
DOK - if Elsie is a 'manage by targets' person then why did Kingston not go after we failed to beat Saracens and lost hope of top 6? Also, why did he extend JK's contract at Christmas when it was obvious we were going nowhere? The question is what/who pushed Ellis to actually do anything?

 
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Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
10 April, 2018 08:22
Quote:
jonf
DOK - if Elsie is a 'manage by targets' person then why did Kingston not go after we failed to beat Saracens and lost hope of top 6? Also, why did he extend JK's contract at Christmas when it was obvious we were going nowhere? The question is what/who pushed Ellis to actually do anything?

It may not have been his decision, or his alone.

 
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Mr_B (IP Logged)
10 April, 2018 08:48
Whilst JK as DOR is not directly responsible for coaching the players to play soooo poorly, he chooses the coaches/squad/tactics and should be driving them to correct what's going on, if he won't make changes that are needed then he's the wrong man for the job. Two years of the same thing with no changes just getting worse meant no other viable option, with a new DOR there should be other changes in coaching, a defence that works would be nice.

 
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Scamble (IP Logged)
10 April, 2018 09:38
I canít see any new DOR worth his salt not wanting to build his own coaching team. This is going to get expensive.

Well done Ellis



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2018 10:05 by Scamble.

 
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HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
10 April, 2018 09:54
It is possible there may have been certain clauses in the contracts that if the team were not performing, the financial layout is reduced should the coaches leave. (To do with top 4/6 finish, cup wins, finishing next to bottom etc)

 
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Scaramouche (IP Logged)
10 April, 2018 10:59
Sean Fitzpatrick has some culpability in all this too as he led the "worldwide search"...



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
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DruidsLodge (IP Logged)
10 April, 2018 11:18
Stronger squad than the premiership winning one ?
Does anyone seriously believe that ?

Self serving nonsense.

 
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Cookie (IP Logged)
10 April, 2018 11:22
Quote:
DruidsLodge
Stronger squad than the premiership winning one ?
Does anyone seriously believe that ?

Self serving nonsense.

I do tend to think that the current squad as a whole is stronger, albeit maybe not the starting XV.

My evidence for that is that we only used 2 replacements in both the semi-final and the final.

 
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talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
10 April, 2018 11:24
Quote:
DruidsLodge
Stronger squad than the premiership winning one ?
Does anyone seriously believe that ?

Self serving nonsense.

Not sure how it's self-serving.

If anything it's JK acknowledging his failings by saying that the talent is there but the performances aren't.

It's certainly debatable whether it's true or not, but I don't see how it's self-serving.

 
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Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
10 April, 2018 11:46
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
DruidsLodge
Stronger squad than the premiership winning one ?
Does anyone seriously believe that ?

Self serving nonsense.

Not sure how it's self-serving.

If anything it's JK acknowledging his failings by saying that the talent is there but the performances aren't.

It's certainly debatable whether it's true or not, but I don't see how it's self-serving.

Indeed, it's quite the opposite of self-serving. It's more an admission of failure, either on the part of JK or the squad, or both.

 
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T-Bone (IP Logged)
10 April, 2018 12:06
I'm not convinced it is the strongest squad really but obviously a very subjective matter and as we've been playing so poorly, it's hard to know how good it could be.

Interesting line in the aritcle about difficultyy finding a top DOR a year away from RWC 2019. Would people accept a stop gap appointment for a year, if someone was lined up to come in after? Treading water for a year with potential ring fencing would not be ideal. We might line someone up then they have a shocking RWC. Tricky decision to get right.

 
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DruidsLodge (IP Logged)
10 April, 2018 12:55
I mean it is self serving as JK is informing us he has left the greatest legacy in almost 2 decades and he will reflect in any improvement, we hope, is made under a new DOR.

In much the same way many, myself included, credit Deano for the bulk of the work done in winning the Premiership.

The relative strengths of the squads are a subjective opinion I would agree.

 
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Jammy Git (IP Logged)
10 April, 2018 13:34
COS completely changed our style of play, introduced several different payers, and won the league three? years after Deano nearly destroyed us (let's not forget we were humiliated at home by Irish in the play-off for his best ever league finish)



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
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RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
11 April, 2018 00:36
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
DruidsLodge
Stronger squad than the premiership winning one ?
Does anyone seriously believe that ?

Self serving nonsense.

I do tend to think that the current squad as a whole is stronger, albeit maybe not the starting XV.

My evidence for that is that we only used 2 replacements in both the semi-final and the final.

It's stronger in its hole.

Locks pale in comparison, back row lacks balance, centres miles away and care/brown are nowhere near their 2012 levels. Marcus smith has been great but he's no Nev in his prime. Props shade it, maybe.


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