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Players attitude
Kent Fan (IP Logged)
01 May, 2018 08:35
Lots of vitriol about Me Ellis and his shortcomings but the players need to carry responsibility for their performances.

Iíve said before Horwill as captain and the other internationals have experienced a variety of coaching styles and yet have seen standards at the club drop off a cliff. Ticketing issues and the match day experience donít have any impact on their 80 minute on pitch performances.

Getting off the floor after tackles, supporting the ball carrier when he makes a break etc these are all personal discipline issues that should all be so ingrained by years of playing and instinctive.......they shouldnít need to be coached.

Our players have just not performed to any level of consistency.....why has this happened?

I know itís an old story but look at the attitude change when Deano took over. Young players given a chance after years of buying in journey men....short memories on this board about some of Mark Evans poor decisions. A real team spirit was developed with guys like Minty given a chance at the big time, Gommers brought back from the wilderness and bringing enthusiasm and mentoring to Danny Care. We also had a star No. 10 in Merhts when in the past we had never had that direction. Nev gave us some good years but was allowed to go on too long.

For all his fantastic play Chris Robshaw maybe not the leader we think he is. He ďleads by exampleĒ obviously but maybe not with the type of nasty attitude the squad needs to gee up slackers. The younger squad players need to be led and management is all about identifying who needs an arm round them, tough love, maybe some fear instilled as to their future, collective responsibility. Even the experienced players are only in their 30s and the young ones now have only ever been in a coddled environment but performance based obviously. The talent is there but needs to be harnessed and applied.

Personally I donít think the new DOR will have enough time to radically over change this malaise....I really hope so but itís a massive job.

 
Re: Players attitude
GP2110 (IP Logged)
01 May, 2018 09:37
Sport in recent years has shown repeatedly that if players do not support the coaches / management, the effort stops. Change often triggers performance levels to radically increase. For example, Chelsea in Conte's first season as manager.

I suspect that a lot of players were bitterly disappointed to renew their contracts just prior to CoS announcing his departure. That could have been seen as a betrayal by the club / lack of transparency. It could have been amplified by the appointment of JK.

If we bring in a respected DoR, and appropriate changes are made to the coaching staff, I am confident we will see a vast improvement next season. The internationals, in particular, will be fighting for their World Cup spots. I think we all agree our player personnel is much better than the league table suggests. If the attitude changes from DoR down, we really do have some playing talent.

 
Re: Players attitude
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
01 May, 2018 09:41
Agreed

 
Re: Players attitude
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
01 May, 2018 10:06
Whilst I think the coaching staff are certainly culpable for a lot of what has happened this season, they can't be completely to blame for some of the dross we've seen recently from our players.

Even if they all thought JK was a terrible DOR, and didn't believe a word the coaches were saying to them, they are still getting paid to do a job, so the least we can expect from them is effort and a bit of discipline. In 2018 we've seen far too many players offer neither, and that is completely unacceptable.

What happens if the players don't agree with the new DOR on day 1? Are they just going to phone it in for another season?

Yes the coaches take responsibility, and it's hopefully the case that we have a clear out in that department this summer. But once a new DOR is in place the players won't be able to hide behind that (awful) excuse, so if we continue to see similar performances, those players will need to be cleared out as well.

 
Re: Players attitude
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
01 May, 2018 10:43
If there is a clique in the dressing room I suspect the new DOR will have that at the top of his list of priorities. A new broom sweeps clean.



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
Re: Players attitude
CPB62 (IP Logged)
01 May, 2018 12:27
The 1st thing a DoR has to do is to ask the players if any want out and if they say yes let them go, then if they still wish to be here Sinkler, Marler, Care and Brown need a serious warning about discipline, as too have senior players carrying on like they do is totally unacceptable.

 
Re: Players attitude
DOK (IP Logged)
01 May, 2018 13:35
but to be fair, part of those players over reaction is probably due to their bottled up anger at other players not showing the same commitment. If new DOR gets the team back on an even keel then those players won't be such balls of fury!

 
Re: Players attitude
Chutneyquin (IP Logged)
01 May, 2018 13:52
For months our senior players Marler, Sinkler, Care, Brown, Horwill, to name a few have been back chatting the ref from Minute 1, or going after opposition players.

High performing teams don't waste energy, moaning and whinging, they concentrate on what they have been coached to do.(All Blacks, Sarries 2 years ago, Exeter)

The majority are all professional Rugby players who are good enough to represent their country.So the skill levels are there.

IMHO this is all about what is in their Heads. For whatever reason Coaching, Personalities,injuries, etc.they need to sort this out. The new DOR will have to employ an army of sports psychiatrists in the first few months to wade through the quagmire.

 
Re: Players attitude
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
01 May, 2018 14:07
I wonder if a lot of that might be as a result of frustration. In their own performances, that of the team and the general atmosphere around the club

 
Re: Players attitude
Chutneyquin (IP Logged)
01 May, 2018 14:36
Agreed, part of the reason.

In the game against Gloucester, they were competing - albeit not playing very well but still within 4 points and in The Gloucester half with about 12 minutes to go.

As soon as the second try was conceded, there was a unified collapse.

( i didn't see the Worcs game, but looking at the scoring, was there something similar?)

Unless we have an absolute stormer of the first 20 minutes against Exeter, i can see it happening again.

The new DOR and hopefully new coaching team are going to have to have Shackletonesque qualities !!!

 
Re: Players attitude
Southpaw Grammar (IP Logged)
01 May, 2018 20:56
I think the problems began in that home defeat to Wasps. They had 14 men for the majority of the game but destroyed us, at a time when we were in the cusp of challenging the top half of the table (2 defeats by a point, either side of our demolition of Saints at HQ).

Ever since then pretty much any setback has been terminal. Quins have had patches of decent stuff in all games that I have seen (except versus Irish - ghee whizz, that was bad!) But the players have lost the battling qualities that saw them achieve, or at least compete, in the first half of the season.

I do think there are problems with defensive tactics - we are a soft touch - but the players need to believe in themselves again. They need to be confident and determined, not egotistical and irritable.

I am praying for something special on Saturday from my boys! Sunshine and beer guaranteed......quality effort too?

 
Re: Players attitude
kevin (IP Logged)
01 May, 2018 20:59
Quote:
Kent....short memories on this board about some of Mark Evans poor decisions. .[/quote
Care to elaborate?

 
Re: Players attitude
Kent Fan (IP Logged)
02 May, 2018 15:13
Ok Kev ....IMHO his bad decisions were his original choice of JK as DOR and then having to relieve him, relegation, plus the number of poor choices of journey man / past their prime / or just not being able to motivate them centres. He had overall a great record and undoubtedly set Quins up as a healthy club but not everything worked in the early days around 2001.

Deano blooded quite a few of the current stars that led to the premiership win by making the squad very tight. In MEs day there were a number of big names who didnít all have that dedication to the best for the squad.....just my opinion and IMHO this has been in evidence again this season.

 
Re: Players attitude
Mr_B (IP Logged)
02 May, 2018 17:33
I take ME taking us into relegation as a positive, we were bumbling around for years with no real direction when it came to the squad, no real ambition other than just stay up. Going down changed that.

There was more good than bad with ME, club was a little closer to the fans, the academy started back up, the stadium, club finances, structure, appointing DEano (pre BG) it wasn't perfect but arguably better than today. Yes he appointed JK but wasn't afraid to change that half way through when wasnt working like this year.

 
Re: Players attitude
Bedfordshire Boy (IP Logged)
02 May, 2018 20:42
Quote:
Kent Fan
Ok Kev ....IMHO his bad decisions were his original choice of JK as DOR and then having to relieve him, relegation, plus the number of poor choices of journey man / past their prime / or just not being able to motivate them centres. He had overall a great record and undoubtedly set Quins up as a healthy club but not everything worked in the early days around 2001.
Deano blooded quite a few of the current stars that led to the premiership win by making the squad very tight. In MEs day there were a number of big names who didnít all have that dedication to the best for the squad.....just my opinion and IMHO this has been in evidence again this season.

JK is on record as stating that he has never held the DOR role prior to his current position.

 
Re: Players attitude
Kent Fan (IP Logged)
02 May, 2018 22:32
Ok sorry he was head coach then as maybe ME was CEO was carrying out what we now know as the DOR role of signing players etc.

If John was such a fantastic coach and has been praised on numerous occasions why did he get the DOR job with no experience?

 
Re: Players attitude
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
03 May, 2018 00:32
How is a DOR meant to get experience other than by being head coach? People always rave about Deano as a DOR and it was JK who was his head coach, and we all know Deano doesn't involve himself in coaching. JK has also won trophies as a head coach. There is surely zero doubt about his coaching credentials.

 
Re: Players attitude
Kent Fan (IP Logged)
03 May, 2018 22:35
Ok if JK had experience of the head coaches job he must have realised that the on field performances, discipline issues etc were not being addressed by Mapletoft and maybe he should have stepped in to get standards backup to required levels.

As the top rugby man, call him what you will he was in charge of results at Quins and should have ensured standards were maintained.

After the Warriors game he said that the players had a no holds barred review session a couple of weeks ago. No real evidence of discipline levels changing.

 
Re: Players attitude
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
03 May, 2018 22:40
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

 
Re: Players attitude
Kent Fan (IP Logged)
04 May, 2018 13:31
What I was trying to say is John saw that the coaching set up wasnít really working but didnít seem to make any changes.

 
Re: Players attitude
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
04 May, 2018 14:23
Yes I felt some time ago that his downfall may well be for being too loyal to the coaches, but I don't think he had cause to change the coaching last summer. Too late now anyway.


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