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Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
akb1 (IP Logged)
09 May, 2018 21:26
[www.telegraph.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2018 22:28 by akb1.

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
Fearless Fred (IP Logged)
10 May, 2018 05:34
Hmmmm, it's a shame that they're not making the development side of it more formal. We saw some sides this year basically putting out almost full first teams in some rounds...

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
never sleep (IP Logged)
10 May, 2018 05:43
It's a pity they don't open it up to ask championship sides. Championship sides against development sides would be a real competition

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
Samquin (IP Logged)
10 May, 2018 07:21
This looks like a replacement to the A league. Wish we could have a proper knockout competition. Though I understand clubs require a minimum number of guaranteed games.

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
Fearless Fred (IP Logged)
10 May, 2018 07:26
Interesting to se that LI are declining to take part in the A-League in the way that Bristol did this season (which is why it had lop-sided number of teams in one pool this year). I guess they think that they'll concentrate solely on winning the Championship. Either that or they don't think they'll have sufficient numbers in their academy to be able to field a team as often as the competition will require...

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
Samquin (IP Logged)
10 May, 2018 09:17
Update from Quins site.

[www.quins.co.uk]

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
Fearless Fred (IP Logged)
10 May, 2018 09:40
Unpacking that release, This is going to be even more of a mess organisationally than the AW was...
It's 3 pools of 4 teams with every team playing 4 pool games (keeping the balance of 2 home games guaranteed to every club). So, I doubt that'd be playing all the teams in your own pool as you'd have to play one team twice, and the others once. But, with only 3 pools, If Pool A play Pool B, who does Pool C play?

I imagine the "Derby" games will be:
Quins v Sarries
Falcons v Sharks
Exeter v Bath(?)
Bristol v Gloucs(?)
Saints v Tigers
Wasps v Worcester (?)

I can't for the life of me work out a way whereby you end up playing the exactly the same opposition as the rest of your pool (at least that was the case in the AW). Say Us v Sarries is the Derby game for both. If we're in the same pool and play the other teams in our pool, you'd end up with:

R1 Quins v Team A, Sarries v Team B
R2 Team B v Quins, Team A v Sarries
R3 Quins v Sarries, Team A v Team B (Both Derbies)
R4 What? Team A v Quins, Team B v Sarries? That doesn't feel right. If Team A were, say Wasps, and Team B were Worcester, based on current standings, we'd be playing the much harder opposition twice, while Sarries get an easier ride versus Worcester twice.

If there's some other plan (play 3 rounds v teams in your pool & 1 vs Derby oppo) again it's an artificial construct where there's not complete equivalence of the teams you play in your pool rounds to decide who goes through:

R1 Quins v Team A, Team B v Team C
R2 Team C v Quins, Team A v Team B
R3 Team B v Quins, Team C v Team A
R4 Quins v Sarries, Team A v Team D, Team E v Team B, Team C v Team F

Be prepared for this to be even worse than the Anglo Welsh for working out who qualifies & who doesn't!

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
10 May, 2018 11:13
Oh Lordy! I was genuinely hoping for an FA Cup style tournament with Prem teams coming in later in the rounds.....



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
shendy (IP Logged)
10 May, 2018 11:57
Quote:
Scaramouche
Oh Lordy! I was genuinely hoping for an FA Cup style tournament with Prem teams coming in later in the rounds.....

A lovely idea, but impossible to guarantee every Prem club the 2 home games they get now. Revenue is king - especially as season tickets will already have been sold on the basis of those 2 games being included.

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
T-Bone (IP Logged)
10 May, 2018 12:56
Also, a premiership club against a much lower division club would be quite dangerous

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
Yareet (IP Logged)
10 May, 2018 14:45
Quote:
Fearless Fred
I can't for the life of me work out a way whereby you end up playing the exactly the same opposition as the rest of your pool

Neither can I but that seems to work in the NFL so maybe it is feasible

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
Quartermaster (IP Logged)
10 May, 2018 20:42
Four pools of 3 playing each other home and away with the winner of each pool progressing to the semi's, surely the easiest way to do this.

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
Fearless Fred (IP Logged)
10 May, 2018 21:41
Quote:
Quartermaster
Four pools of 3 playing each other home and away with the winner of each pool progressing to the semi's, surely the easiest way to do this.

You would think so, but the press releases are clear that it's three pools of four teams...

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
Bedfordshire Boy (IP Logged)
10 May, 2018 21:55
Quote:
Fearless Fred
Quote:
Quartermaster
Four pools of 3 playing each other home and away with the winner of each pool progressing to the semi's, surely the easiest way to do this.

You would think so, but the press releases are clear that it's three pools of four teams...

But you cannot fit this into the 4 weekends available.

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
Fearless Fred (IP Logged)
11 May, 2018 05:04
Quote:
Bedfordshire Boy
Quote:
Fearless Fred
Quote:
Quartermaster
Four pools of 3 playing each other home and away with the winner of each pool progressing to the semi's, surely the easiest way to do this.

You would think so, but the press releases are clear that it's three pools of four teams...

But you cannot fit this into the 4 weekends available.

That would be true if teams were to play the others in your own pool both home & away (6 games). They're trying to drum up interest in the new competition (the extra money for winning, local derbies etc), while keeping it to the same number of weekends as the AW & ensuring all clubs get two home games in the Pool stage.

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
blucherquin (IP Logged)
11 May, 2018 06:00
Itís such a waste of time - just scrap it and charge me less for my seat.

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
11 May, 2018 08:20
Morning Marvin.



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
Rocker (IP Logged)
11 May, 2018 08:33
Attendance for the Anglo Welsh thingy are historically poor anyway. Just knock a few quid of the ST and be done with it. That or a proper development competition.

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
Fearless Fred (IP Logged)
11 May, 2018 08:38
We already have a Development competition in the A-League. The AW was useful in that a) it gave a chance for players those coming back from injury/3rd choice players who might be needed as injury cover in games a chance to get game-time to stay match-fit and keep the game-rust at bay.

It's true that the attendances were always lower, but I still remember when the 7k of us at the AW Semi-final against Bath made one hell of a noise & had a great game. That year we used a mix of players like the two Toms (Guest & Williams) along with up & comers like Wallace, Botica, etc to great effect. When it had a sponsor, it was also extra money for the clubs. The problem was that the Welsh wanted/needed it to be a truly U23s competition, while the Premiership clubs didn't (already handled by the A League). It was also nice to have new opposition to play against in the form of the Welsh sides.

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
The Dead Baron (IP Logged)
11 May, 2018 08:53
I too was quietly hoping for an FA cup style compo. Oh well. Don't think I'll make too much of an effort to attend these games - it's just an alternative way of watching the same teams.

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
Fearless Fred (IP Logged)
11 May, 2018 09:03
Imagine if you get one of the teams in all three competitions. You get to watch Us vs Gloucester in the Premiership, European Cup and Premiership Cup too! Woohoo! (Sm60)(Sm60)(Sm60)


(Sm161)

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
The Dead Baron (IP Logged)
11 May, 2018 09:37
Quote:
Fearless Fred
Imagine if you get one of the teams in all three competitions. You get to watch Us vs Gloucester in the Premiership, European Cup and Premiership Cup too! Woohoo! (Sm60)(Sm60)(Sm60)

(Sm161)

Twice.....

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
plzd (IP Logged)
11 May, 2018 11:51
Quote:
Quartermaster
Four pools of 3 playing each other home and away with the winner of each pool progressing to the semi's, surely the easiest way to do this.

If it is not this obvious and simple method I will not bother to go. The whole way the AW was done was so complex I just lost interest in it.

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
plzd (IP Logged)
11 May, 2018 11:52
Quote:
blucherquin
Itís such a waste of time - just scrap it and charge me less for my seat.

+1

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
DazzaS (IP Logged)
11 May, 2018 12:47
Im happy for a lower season ticket and knock out style compeititoion with the other leagues with maybe academy/u23 and reserves taking up the places for premiership to make it less dangerous for lower leagues. competition can be like fa cuphave lower leagues start and as rounds go further higher up leagues get involved culmulating with championship and premiership.

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
Mark W-J (IP Logged)
11 May, 2018 12:53
Quote:
T-Bone
Also, a premiership club against a much lower division club would be quite dangerous

You get bigger mismatches at the World Cup. The gulf in size, ability and skills between the top four nations and Romania/ Uruguay/ Spain is far greater than the gulf between the top of the Premiership and the bottom of the Championship.

Edit: sorry, you did say 'much lower division club'. It does seem a wasted opportunity when the Championship has announced a Championship Cup and the Premiership has its own Premiership Cup. If only there were a way of making those two competitions slightly more interesting.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2018 12:56 by Mark W-J.

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
Fearless Fred (IP Logged)
11 May, 2018 13:04
You'd struggle to be able to come up with a competition that can take more than 16 teams and be played with pool rounds, semis and finals all within 6 fixtures, though. You either have to find 4 non-premiership teams and repeat the old AW format, or work with the number of teams in the Prem & kludge something together...

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
never sleep (IP Logged)
11 May, 2018 15:14
Simples. You just include the top four championship clubs. This removes any mismatch. Also, we get more derby games. And the championship teams like Bedford, who don't want to be in the premiership would have something to play for.
Also, make the teams register players at the beginning to stop premiership teams fielding all international players in the knock outs

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
blucherquin (IP Logged)
11 May, 2018 15:22
On the ďFA CupĒ style thing - every time itís mentioned the players on tv - Ugo, Bayfs etc say you could never have it because of the risk of very serious injury to any non premiership players barring a small number of championship sides and certainly nothing lower:

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
Yareet (IP Logged)
11 May, 2018 18:15
Quote:
never sleep
Simples. You just include the top four championship clubs. This removes any mismatch. Also, we get more derby games. And the championship teams like Bedford, who don't want to be in the premiership would have something to play for.
Also, make the teams register players at the beginning to stop premiership teams fielding all international players in the knock outs

To put some perspective on this, Bristol won the championship by 20 points. Ealing were second by 15 - ie Bristol were 35 points ahead of third place. Iím not sure the teams in 3rd and 4th wouldnít constitute a mismatch against a Prem team - even if it was kids and bit part players.

 
Re: Anglo Welsh Cup replaced with an English only Competition
Mayor West (IP Logged)
11 May, 2018 19:38
I don't care I just like watching rugby. Did enjoy watching Welsh teams for a change but what else would I do instead. (No suggestions please).


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