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England vs South Africa 2
Rocker (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 16:52
Well started well again.
My thoughts.
Farrell is not captain material!
De Klerk needs a good slap.
A push on the side of the head (not the face Barnes!) of a bloke lying on the wrong side is not a penalty :-(
Glenn Jackson is a @#$%&.
Don't start with vunipola and Sinckler, one prop needs to be a real scrummager.
England, like Quins, really need to work on their mail defence.

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
kevin (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 17:01
Quote:
Rocker
England, like Quins, really need to work on their mail defence.
Spring loaded letterbox?

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
kevin (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 17:13
Our powerhouses are not as powerful as their powerhouses.

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 17:21
Some real brain dead rugby from us.

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 17:26
What a muppet Hughes. Totally stupid again from England

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
Brown Bottle (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 17:27
Yeah! Thanks, Nathan.



BB

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
Brown Bottle (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 17:31
Blimey. Solomona just did a rugby thing!



BB

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
blucherquin (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 17:31
The Mako push was a definite penalty and lucky not to be a yellow since it came within seconds of both sides being warned to grow up or someone would be off

Very poor discipline and poor rugby from England. We don’t have a hope in Japan and I can’t tell you what our best XV is anymore.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/06/2018 17:34 by blucherquin.

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
Brown Bottle (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 17:54
Quote:
The Mako push was a definite penalty and lucky not to be a yellow since it came within seconds of both sides being warned to grow up or someone would be off

Absolutely, it was utterly stupid.



BB

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 17:57
Quote:
Brown Bottle
Quote:
The Mako push was a definite penalty and lucky not to be a yellow since it came within seconds of both sides being warned to grow up or someone would be off

Absolutely, it was utterly stupid.

I can't understand why he did it?

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
Dave L (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 17:57
What's frustrating is that previously very good players are looking shadows of their former selves. The basic errors and terrible discipline can only be fixed by the players.

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
Samquin (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 18:14
Shields has so far failed to impress. I can't see what all the fuss is about. He was anonymous for most of the game.

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
blucherquin (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 18:31
Quote:
Samquin
Shields has so far failed to impress. I can't see what all the fuss is about. He was anonymous for most of the game.

He was, sadly, better than CR

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
Brown Bottle (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 18:33
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Brown Bottle
Quote:
The Mako push was a definite penalty and lucky not to be a yellow since it came within seconds of both sides being warned to grow up or someone would be off

Absolutely, it was utterly stupid.

I can't understand why he did it?

Nope, me neither.



BB

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
Banstead Quin (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 18:58
Quote:
blucherquin
Quote:
Samquin
Shields has so far failed to impress. I can't see what all the fuss is about. He was anonymous for most of the game.

He was, sadly, better than CR

Not sure what game you were watching Blucher, he was very poor?

I said it last week (and this is with sympathy) the Sarries players look shattered and shouldn’t be out there. Itoje, George, Mako all poor again and I doubt they’ll make the end of next season, which is a real shame for them as it’s not their fault.

Farrell needs some time away from the first team to reassess his game and realise he’s neither a Captain or the second coming.

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
Mr_B (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 18:51
In a tight game like that take the points, just don't understand when you know you are not at your best why you do that. Way too many stupid penalties again, just suicide rugby at times. MV should not be in a shirt next week and nowhere near the pitch, that slap could have been a yellow he was very lucky.

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 19:23
I would stick with Shields. Its a step up in test rugby. Give him more of a chance as he has looked class in NZ. Dont forget he only met the team/coaches a few weeks ago!!

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
quinsfan123 (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 19:54
I do think something is definitely up with EJ he seems helbent on sticking with the Ford Farrell axis even when it hasn’t worked in last 5 games. When Cips did come on... his impact was noticeable immediately taking the ball flat to the line allowing Daly to break the line.

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
Dibden (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 20:18
Our new HOR has been defence coach that has leaky includinf

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
Dibden (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 20:25
a leaky defence including high pts against away to Oz and Argies.
He has not delivered the wolf pack mentality he achieved at in.Lets hope he can produce his club form and not his England standard.We will never know his real reasons for taking our job which is at a level well below DOR

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
blucherquin (IP Logged)
16 June, 2018 21:40
Quote:
Dibden
a leaky defence including high pts against away to Oz and Argies.
He has not delivered the wolf pack mentality he achieved at in.Lets hope he can produce his club form and not his England standard.We will never know his real reasons for taking our job which is at a level well below DOR

That’s really not true - it’s a job as the boss and that’s why he’s taken it.

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
QuickerQuin (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 08:39
Apparently Joe Marler and Mike Brown had a chat with some of the England supporters after the game....

[www.bbc.co.uk]

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
DOK (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 09:10
Not sure a "discussion" between Mike and Joe is my idea of what marred the game. Think some brain dead play, poor tackling and inability to take advantage of attacking chances plus, once again, a high penalty count would be higher on my list.

None of which makes a good advert for Gustard coming here. All of the issues listed above were problems for Harlequins last season. JK and the coaching team couldn't change the team last season, Eddie Jones, Gustard and Co can't seem to get through to theirs either.

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
Rocker (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 09:53
I think they've stopped playing English rugby in an effort to compete with new Zealand they're trying to play a game that they're not necessarily suited to. Get back to basics. Jones has a lot to answer for, I think the selections are wrong in many key areas, Faz is not a captain, too volatile. Wrong starting front row again.

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 10:29
5 losses in a row. I'm becoming a little concerned. When do we push the panic button? 10 losses? Lets hope the break after the 3rd Test gives everybody time to rethink before the AI's...



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 11:41
Quote:
Dibden
a leaky defence including high pts against away to Oz and Argies.
He has not delivered the wolf pack mentality he achieved at in.Lets hope he can produce his club form and not his England standard.We will never know his real reasons for taking our job which is at a level well below DOR

England's defence won us the series in Oz. Against Argentina it was a largely untested set of combinations.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
DazzaS (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 13:22
Is it too early to speculate if Jon's has lost the dressing room?

He does. It seem to know his best team anymore and is starting to pick players out of position. Similar traits to the previous head coach of England national side.

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
Dave L (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 13:26
My supposition is that a lot of our players are shattered having played a ludicrous amount of minutes. England have been patched together for the last 12 months and after a long season, the last thing a team that had a shoddy 6 nations needed was a trip to SA with 2 tests at altitude against a team with absolutely nothing whatsoever to lose. I must preface this by saying I'm surprised the likes of Armand aren't involved.

The commentariat were already on England's back after the Wales game and now the knives are fully out, for both the coaches and players who have the temerity to not be the flavour of the month. Any other international team makes a mistake, nobody notices - all part of the development process. England do, and the rugby world obsess, gloat and go on about it like no other. Must be a terrible environment to be in at the moment for the players.

That said, the players have to take a full responsibility for the mindless indiscipline on show yesterday. Mako and Hughes in particular.

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
blucherquin (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 13:57
Quote:
Dave L
My supposition is that a lot of our players are shattered having played a ludicrous amount of minutes. England have been patched together for the last 12 months and after a long season, the last thing a team that had a shoddy 6 nations needed was a trip to SA with 2 tests at altitude against a team with absolutely nothing whatsoever to lose. I must preface this by saying I'm surprised the likes of Armand aren't involved.
The commentariat were already on England's back after the Wales game and now the knives are fully out, for both the coaches and players who have the temerity to not be the flavour of the month. Any other international team makes a mistake, nobody notices - all part of the development process. England do, and the rugby world obsess, gloat and go on about it like no other. Must be a terrible environment to be in at the moment for the players.

That said, the players have to take a full responsibility for the mindless indiscipline on show yesterday. Mako and Hughes in particular.

The commentariat - come on. And I don’t buy “development process” either.

The RFU has the most money and the biggest pool of players, players earn between 100-350k a year and a 25k bonus every time they wear the shirt. Jones is extremely well paid has been in the job 2.5 years and has already been given a contract extension.

It’s not a blip - it’s a major problem. Lose again next week and we’ll be tied for the 2nd longest losing streaks in national team history.

7 games. Mar 1904 to Feb 1906
6 games. Jun 2014 to Nov 2014
6 games. Mar 1971 to Mar 1972

So I’m sure they having a “terrible” time but if serious questions can’t be raised now, with a World Cup next year, when can they?

We were useless in the 6 Nations and if they’d given the Welsh try who knows if we’d have won thst game. (Incidentally we gave away 10 penalties to Wales’ 2 and missed about 25 tackles, so the win covered up exactly what we’ve seen since). Now we’re worse. And Jones appears to be making Lancaster style selections while players are well off their best.

Sitting back and accepting it as part of their learning curve doesn’t seem like a great idea.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 17/06/2018 14:33 by blucherquin.

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
John Tee (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 14:26
If it were me, I'd want to give the new guy as much games as possible. We haven rg been good since the,AI at least...and weve played in spurts but not 80 mins.

To sack Jones next week might be slightly harsh but we need signs this is reversible. And we need the pdq.

I've seen enough and if the press are after they might know dressing room stories etc...
We need a new head broom because we haven't hot many different picks to come back in.
I don't know who is in the mystical 25 missing either...??

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
raedarius (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 14:59
Quote:
John Tee
I don't know who is in the mystical 25 missing either...??

For there to be 25, it will probably have to include the likes of Clifford, Boyce and Smith...

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 15:21
Missing 25? Isn't it the same for every International Team?



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
T-Bone (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 15:46
It does include Clifford, marchant and the likes of them. Also includes care and others who are available

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
Yareet (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 15:45
Quote:
John Tee
We need a new head broom because we haven't hot many different picks to come back in.

Te’o
Kruis
Lawes
Nowell
Watson

All Lions last summer. All missing from this tour. All could make a significant difference to the current 23.

Cole
Haskell

Also Lions. Also missing. Not sure I’d definitely have them in the 23 but they bring experience which we are currently missing.

Hartley
Care
Robshaw

Also missing from yesterday’s 23 and would all do no worse than their replacements yesterday but bring a wealth of experience.

That’s arguably around a quarter of a match day squad who could come back in.

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
blucherquin (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 17:12
Robshaw’s just been dropped coz he’s totally out of form and knackered - not sure you can now say he’d help sort the team out.

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
Dave L (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 18:29
Quote:
blucherquin
Robshaw’s just been dropped coz he’s totally out of form and knackered - not sure you can now say he’d help sort the team out.

Blucher - responding to your previous response to mine as can’t get the quote sorted on the phone.

At no point did I say I accept it as part of the learning process. Believe me I’mfurious with how England have been playing. Ruined the last 2 weekends. It’s poor. The players need to accept responsibility. as do the coaches, EJ in particular. What I do expect is this sort of thing to carry on as long as our players play way more minutes than their Celtic equivalents.

I dont disagree with most of what you say, I’m just trying to think beyond EJ out and how much of this is a structural problem.

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
blucherquin (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 19:21
Quote:
Dave L
Quote:
blucherquin
Robshaw’s just been dropped coz he’s totally out of form and knackered - not sure you can now say he’d help sort the team out.

Blucher - responding to your previous response to mine as can’t get the quote sorted on the phone.

At no point did I say I accept it as part of the learning process. Believe me I’mfurious with how England have been playing. Ruined the last 2 weekends. It’s poor. The players need to accept responsibility. as do the coaches, EJ in particular. What I do expect is this sort of thing to carry on as long as our players play way more minutes than their Celtic equivalents.

I dont disagree with most of what you say, I’m just trying to think beyond EJ out and how much of this is a structural problem.

Ok sure - it’s just the idea that’s its a media thing bugged me. It’s Jones and the players and they are paid a lot to take the pressure.

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
Quaking Quin (IP Logged)
17 June, 2018 23:16
it's a mess......

England peaked last year and are going backwards.

Woodward just managed to get his ageing team to limp over the line in 2003. Jones' team is limping badly now and needs a complete re-think for the AIs and 2019 - assuming he can prevent a humiliating end to this tour and keep his job.

Doesn't bode well for Gustard either - given what will face him from the outset at the Stoop.

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
QuickerQuin (IP Logged)
18 June, 2018 06:12
Quote:
Quaking Quin

Jones' team is limping badly now and needs a complete re-think for the AIs and 2019 - assuming he can prevent a humiliating end to this tour and keep his job.


I believe Eddie Jones is on - what - something North of 2 million a year? He has not long had a contract renewal. I imagine if the RFU say 'you're fired' he will say 'O.K.'

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
Rocker (IP Logged)
18 June, 2018 07:22
Thing is it will stuff up hus reputation and for a guy like Jones is imagine that image and reputation matters.

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
Dave L (IP Logged)
18 June, 2018 07:50
Quote:
QuickerQuin
Quote:
Quaking Quin

Jones' team is limping badly now and needs a complete re-think for the AIs and 2019 - assuming he can prevent a humiliating end to this tour and keep his job.


I believe Eddie Jones is on - what - something North of 2 million a year? He has not long had a contract renewal. I imagine if the RFU say 'you're fired' he will say 'O.K.'

I have it on very good authority that the figure you’ve quoted is an order of magnitude higher than the actual figure. Still a very good salary though.

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
QuickerQuin (IP Logged)
18 June, 2018 08:16
Quote:
Dave L
Quote:
QuickerQuin
Quote:
Quaking Quin

Jones' team is limping badly now and needs a complete re-think for the AIs and 2019 - assuming he can prevent a humiliating end to this tour and keep his job.


I believe Eddie Jones is on - what - something North of 2 million a year? He has not long had a contract renewal. I imagine if the RFU say 'you're fired' he will say 'O.K.'

I have it on very good authority that the figure you’ve quoted is an order of magnitude higher than the actual figure. Still a very good salary though.

The Daily Mail reckons £750,000

[tinyurl.com]

 
Re: England vs South Africa 2
Dave L (IP Logged)
18 June, 2018 09:00
Still high but closer to that figure.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/06/2018 09:01 by Dave L.


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