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Chris B (IP Logged)

Cato
26 February, 2012 23:41
I for one am sick and tired of it.

Too many of our (frankly should know better) "fans" are so quick to rubbish the guy whenever he pulls on the jersey it's becoming a medievil witch hunt.

The guy is yet to have a bad game for the club. No, he's not set the world on fire. Yes, he is a former Saracen. So what? He's fizzing about and doing his job.

Poor bloke will end up being hounded out by the same idiots who did the same thing to John Rudd.

About time these pillocks grew a pair.

 
MESSAGES->author
ChrisG (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 00:04
Theres a long list of players who have been hounded by the oh so knowledgeable and witty element in our support and in some cases its affected the game of the player concerned and one in leaving the club at the first chance he got. Idiots and its always the same faces.

 
wheely
wheely (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 00:34
Wants to buck his ideas up then!

Oh, and not read fan sites if he'a that easily offended

His covering and defence to let armitage in today was
truly dismal.

 
MESSAGES->author
ChrisG (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 00:40
Not talking about fan sites, talking about things shouted during games, by 'supporters'. Theres a time and a place for these experts but trying to undermine your own players just to make yourself look big while a game is in progress says more about those people than the players they are abusing,

 
MESSAGES->author
smurfomatic (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 06:46
Wheely - Downey missed a few tackles today, Vas and Pisi both missed tackles for the first try. Didn't notice too many screaming for the rest of the three quarter line to be dropped, and Cato opened the scoring as well!



Photo Gallery

SWH12 - May 10th 2014

 
Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 06:55
Yes, he made a meal of their second try; but how much game time, experience and caps does he have under his belt? Not a great deal. He'll learn from that, and won't ever do it again! I remember Rory underwood doing the same thing in the mid 90's to let ieuan Evans in at the corner at twickers, which allowed Wales to win the match, he must have had around at least 50 caps by then, and bucketloads of experience! Have also heard people give him pelters for meandering and cutting back in; these same people would no doubt have praised the@#$%&out of Harvey thorneycroft for doing the exact same thing. Give the lad a break and yer support; i promise you we'll have a cracking winger on our hands when he is given the opportunity to have a good run of injury free games.

 
Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 07:00
AND Digger had it covered until it bounced awkwardly.



Crispy - well said mate.


People who wonder why this happens look up group dynamics and head to the section marked scapegoat.



No alcohol for January. I'm a dryathlete in aid of cancer research.

Dryathlon

 
Saint Morrissey
Saint Morrissey (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 07:00
Agreed. I thought he played OK. Vas made more mistakes. Is it because he's an ex Sarries?. If so some people should grow up. He will get better and I hope it's with us.

 
MESSAGES->author
OldPete (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 07:03
Totally agree - the guy has been adapting well imho to a new way of playing and a new club culture .

We did in C bloc address him the other week -after his second try we sang " Noah Noah give us a wave" he was a bit puzzled by this sort of interaction with a home crowd.
But in the end we gota sheepish grin and twiddle of fingers.

Seriously though - public criticism of individual players is very damaging although it probabaly helps no end with the already damaged psyches of the shouters.

 
eddiep
Edward (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 07:24
Pete, perhaps he was just puzzled at seeing a home crowd? That will take some getting used to! (Sm100)

 
St Owen
St Owen (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 07:44
If its that big a problem at matches why don't people chirp up then and there and set the offenders straight, instead of on fans forums infested by keyboard jockeys on both sides?



You can't always get what you want, But if you try sometimes well you might find, You get what you need.

Richards/Jagger

 
wheely
wheely (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 07:47
Especially a home crowd he could hear and see!

I'm more than prepared 2 give home the benefit of the doubt. He played and tackled very well against Sale t'other week. Rough with the smooth

 
SAINT_aitch
SAINT_aitch (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 07:49
Well I like him and have done since he arrived at the club. I have also seen him put in some great performances for the Wandies and reckon he is learning very quickly and will soon be an excellent winger.
I am, however quilty of shouting 'Now Kato' in an Inspector Clueso accent every time he gets the ball, perhaps I should stop doing that!?

 
MESSAGES->author
Chris B (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 07:56
Quote:
St Owen
If its that big a problem at matches why don't people chirp up then and there and set the offenders straight, instead of on fans forums infested by keyboard jockeys on both sides?

I for one do. Sane way I tell off the to$$ers who turned on Ashton like he were guilty of treason.

These things need to be aired and wormed out. At times the atmosphere is downright nasty because of it.

What next? Monkey chants?

 
St Crispin
St Crispin (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 08:15
Personally, I don't rate the guy. Watched him during the Sale game at home a few weeks ago and noticed numerous fumbles, missed kicks, missed (and poor technique) tackles. I'd never shout it out at games. But I am entitled to an opinion. I know that I'm obviously wrong by the fact the coaches keep on picking him (In Jim, Nobby & Larry we trust). But I just keep seeing too many errors. I thought young Elliot was doing OK. But, obviously, very new.

 
jdusty964
jdusty (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 08:15
I dont think that we have any bad players in the squad, Cato is a very accomplished winger in his own right, he scored that first try with an Irish player hanging off his shirt when he could have gone to touch or ground.

I dont understand why so many have it in for our backs, everyone has a bad day at the office, its how you bounce back that matters.

I hope that Noah gets the support and encouragement from all at our club, he is now a Saint so any previous should now be forgiven as he moves forward with his new team.

When he pulls on the G,B & G he gives it his all as do all the lads, on current form I dont even think that all the current International players should be able to walk straight back into the team.

 
MESSAGES->author
Saint Dom (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 08:29
He is still very young.

I remember being very young... I think. It was a time of extremes.

He will get better, preferably with Saints, but to improve he needs encouragement, not thoughtless hounding during games.

And Saint Aitch... I know just what you mean. Have been waiting for him to spring out of hiding and karate chop his way to the line ever since we signed him!



http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/99/99_0_1202835632.jpg
*I could agree with you - but then we'd both be wrong...*

 
MESSAGES->author
Connorman (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 08:44
What Rubadubdub said. And I raise you Poitrenaud in 2004.

 
walks10
walks10 (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 09:00
as a team we are playing very well but only in patches and seem to lose concentration now and again letting in some soft scores. When you are on the wing there is no hiding place and everyone see's the little errors. I'm not his biggest fan but he deserves our support and a chance to prove himself, think he just needs a run in the team and his confidence will grow.

 
MESSAGES->author
MoANjAm (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 09:04
I like what I have seen of NC so far. Im glad he is getting a run in the first team and to a man they are all stepping up and letting no-one down.


Maybe its just the individual supporter/fan# failing to come to terms with what he/she sees on the pitch. Therefore they feel obligated to say something and more than often that is derogatory. fact of life I'm afraid. Just wished they stood nearer me...


#(there IS a difference; thanks Dave...)



"sup·port·er"

Noun:
1.A person who approves of and encourages someone or something (typically a public figure, a movement or party, or a policy).
2.A person who is actively interested in and wishes success for a particular sports team.



http://www.smurfomatic.plus.com/mo.gif

 
MESSAGES->author
smurfomatic (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 09:07
Another point on the subject, as shown at Twickenham on Saturday. Courtney's ball control in the tackle can be shocking at times, but I don't often hear many people castigating him for it...



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SWH12 - May 10th 2014

 
saint_tim
Saint Tim (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 09:11
Excellent thread - thought Cato had a really good game against Sale. Yes there may have been mistakes but all players make some of those - it is just those on the wing are very noticeable.



http://www.smurfomatic.plus.com/sttim.gif

“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

Benjamin Franklin

Tetleys Block F E143

 
MESSAGES->author
St Marlowe (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 09:21
The "Now Cato" thing is intended as a form of support/encouragement - I hop it is seen as such!



David L

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

- Live wrong and preposterously

 
sainttaff
sainttaff (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 09:27
He just needs a bigger pair of shorts!

 
EBWGC
Eric Browett (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 09:47
I was disappointed to see him leave Sarries as he's got bags of natural ability. You may not know but he came to rugby quite late and is obviously still learning. He's very much a confidence player and he does make the odd howler. I suspect if he plays against us next weekend we will be trying to put the ball behind him as he's quite weak positionally and on the turn as you saw yesterday!

 
stoofer
stoofer (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 09:58
Surely many more problems on the other wing yesterday.

After a promising start Vas is increasingly looking out of place at this level. Saying that he clearly has bags of talent, and I'm hoping its going to be an Ashton second season situation for him next year.

As it stands, however, without an inform Ashton, we are looking desperately short of class in the wing positions next year, and I'm sure we'll see some recruitment. Corey Jane anyone? Saying that Bassett (sp?) looked pretty good for the U20's on Friday and could be a real force in future - but still a project at this stage.

 
MESSAGES->author
Connorman (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 10:03
Or Walker on the other wing....

 
MESSAGES->author
ChrisG (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 10:12
Owen some of us do but to excuse peoples berating of players because the majority don't tell people not too is hardly the answer.

 
MESSAGES->author
StBleach (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 10:24
Must have missed something, what was the source of the Cato bashing that this thread refers to? havent seen any links so cannt comment.. I think the lad is an excellent 'team player' but always looks a little 'nervy' - needs to take a leaf out of Diggers book and smile sometimes.

 
Saint Morrissey
Saint Morrissey (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 10:35
Digger just exudes confidence. He made a poor pass yesterday, gave a litle grin and got on with it. Cato and Vas along with Elliott will all improve in time.
Courtney needs to remember to protect the ball and impact, my 11 years olds don't always manage it but I'd expect him too!!

 
MESSAGES->author
St Marlowe (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 10:36
Quote:
Bleach
Must have missed something, what was the source of the Cato bashing that this thread refers to? havent seen any links so cannt comment

Me Neither - and apart from "Now Cato" heard nothing in the South Stand or Yesterday



David L

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

- Live wrong and preposterously

 
St Owen
St Owen (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 10:37
Quote:
ChrisG
Owen some of us do but to excuse peoples berating of players because the majority don't tell people not too is hardly the answer.

I take your point, but thats not exactly the point I was making...

Its all very well and good moaning about it on here, but i'm not afraid to put people in their place face to face - and i'm glad to see others on here aren't either.

That's the only way we'll combat the ignorance that we're all guilty of sometimes.



You can't always get what you want, But if you try sometimes well you might find, You get what you need.

Richards/Jagger

 
MESSAGES->author
StBleach (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 10:43
"Courtney needs to remember to protect the ball " - disagree.. well, only when he's playing for the Saints

 
MESSAGES->author
MoANjAm (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 10:46
Stoofer,
"Vas out of his depth". "We are looking desperately short of class at wing" - shirley you jest?

Vas is a quality player. I said that when I saw him playing for Russia last year and I stand by it now.

Elliot, Vas, Diggin, Morgensen, Cato, Armstrong plus signings to come in the summer.Plus the Academy lads coming through.



"sup·port·er"

Noun:
1.A person who approves of and encourages someone or something (typically a public figure, a movement or party, or a policy).
2.A person who is actively interested in and wishes success for a particular sports team.



http://www.smurfomatic.plus.com/mo.gif

 
saracenangel
saracenangel (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 11:43
He was my favourite player when he was at Sarries. Shame he isn't playing more often for you guys

 
D WEST
D WEST (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 11:46
Agree that berating at games is probably not the most motivating thing to do. However I have been distinctly un impressed with Cato so far, as I commented in the match thread. Players make errors it's only natural but what concerns me is Cato's lack of concentration and application. He makes lots of errors both handling and positional and doesn't seem switched on half the time. Sort of stirs about and hopes he's in the right place. I don't think I've ever seen him sprint! The irish try yesterday was embarrassing. Vas made mistakes but looked good in attack, it's no coincidence that Sale and Irish both targeted The back 3 with drop outs etc, it's a bit of a weakness and Cato is becoming a liability. Hope I'm proved wrong but Elliot and Armstrong are technically better and put in 100%.

 
Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 12:15
I think he's been pretty good for us. Everyone makes mistakes and Cato made one yesterday. No biggy, we still won in the end.

Reading through this thread I don't think anyone has mentioned that he regularly is the first one to follow up after a restart and successfully takes down big forwards very often.

Plus - this may show me to be a bad supporter - he's only 23! I missed that, I thought he was at least 26-27.

Long may he be with us.


FHS.

 
MESSAGES->author
MoANjAm (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 12:57
Ive seen him sprint...he is a natural sprinter ie runs on his toes and very quick off the mark.

At the moment the player with most to prove in this position is Ash!



"sup·port·er"

Noun:
1.A person who approves of and encourages someone or something (typically a public figure, a movement or party, or a policy).
2.A person who is actively interested in and wishes success for a particular sports team.



http://www.smurfomatic.plus.com/mo.gif

 
MESSAGES->author
Stockers (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 13:01
He's a Curate's Egg!



Northampton Saints - Aviva Premiership Champions 2013/14

 
MESSAGES->author
Matthew (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 13:06
Is he still carrying an injury? The only bit of his performance that gave me any cause for question yesterday was his amble back towards the ball just before Irish's second try - if he'd ran rather than jogged, he'd easily have been the first to the ball.

Aside from that, he took his try well yesterday and I'd say his was one of the better performances on the pitch against Sale.

 
MESSAGES->author
Robby Richmond (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 13:36
Spokesy made a cameo on the boards yesterday and had it spot on,

we knew where and how Irish would attack and we didn't offer either wing enough support. This is where were missing Clarkie in my opinion.

Tagi might be just back from injury but hes been one of the most consistent performers in the premiership for the last 7 or 8 years. We hung Cato and Vas out to dry for most of the 1st half.

As for Mr Cato, or snoop dogg's cousin as my pals and I have always affectionately called him, his body language on the field seems to do him no favours, which is a shame as he has talent.
With that said, many players have arrived at FG under the current management regime and have been rejuvenated with a more positive attitude and added confidence.

Almost all the rugby player i have ever known have had a sense of arrogance about them, some swagger, confidence. If Noah was able to bring some of that to his performances I'm sure many would appreciate his skills more.

Not all players fit into a new club environment immediately, perhaps that needs to be taken into account too.

One of the unfortunate kick backs from Premiership football over the last 20 years has been the need for players to perform as soon as they arrive at a new club.

Back in the days of yore, guys like Ian Rush, Brian McLair and the like spent the 1st season at their new clubs in the reserves,learning to play the Liverpool and Manchester United way. This doesn't occur anymore, and ask any chelsea fan their thoughts on Fernando Torres for proof.

If he gets a proper run in the team, 4 or 5 games we might just begin to see some confidence grow inside him. Hopefully he isn't injured.



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MESSAGES->author
Howlin (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 14:10
Everyone makes mistakes. In life and in rugby. Even the best players in teh world make mistakes. If you are the kind of person who wishes to focus on these imo it says more about you than about them. We still largely have a young and developing team. No-one develops unless they try new things. If you try new things you make more mistakes.

And , for what its worth, I don't think Cato was at fault for the try. he actually overran the ball as it bounced wikedly backwards. If he'd run faster he would have been even further away. Most rugby "commentatots" concentrate on spotting "mistakes". It is an easy thing to do and it makes them feel imortant. Again believing what they say is an option; not a necessity.



Saint til I die

 
MESSAGES->author
Saint Dom (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 14:21
Howlin is dead right on that last point, particularly.

Whoever is playing, when I hear Stuart Barnes come out with "That was a really poor kick," or "that was really bad defence, not acceptable at this level" - I think what about the context, the pressure exerted by the player's opponents, the conditions.

Do we need to hear players criticised so vehemently, when there are other contributory factors apart from sheer, unprofessional incompetence, which is what Barnes would have us believe?

 
tubby shark
Saint Tub (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 14:24
Its typical of the board and the press..

Whats the difference between the below?

Foden threw an interception v Italy - big deal

Cato failed to track back once (lazy) - witch hunt

Courtney essentially costing England the game on Sat by failing to carry and protect the ball - rather a core skill for a lock

 
MESSAGES->author
ChrisG (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 15:57
Exactly Tub, there are those who some view as being open season on whilst others are untouchables who cannot be criticised in any way.

 
sainttaff
sainttaff (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 16:03
Tub, where is the witch hunt??

And Courts protection of the ball was perfect from where I was sat!! (Sm163)

 
LaurieK
LaurieK (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 16:31
To me it all a direct result of Sky and their commentators who constantly wish to personalise a game that is essentially a team game. Suddenly we have seen our George and Joseph put under their spotlight. Why? To sell a game on tv. All the words about each during the match had therefore to be positive even though there were errors. And from those debates we hear on tele we bring the same attitudes to forums such as this. It is so depressing to hear ex-rugby players criticising those who currently play the game.

I was really looking forward to seeing what all the fuss was re Joseph. On the day there was not a lot to report, because Saints played him well and nullified his strengths.

Sky coverage makes a very good case for going to watch games live. At least our rubbish isn't broadcast.

 
John Rickerd
John Rickerd (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 17:26
I really don't see much difference between Commentators and Spectators. In fact a lot of spectators around me in the South Stand do a lot more than criticise.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/02/2012 17:27 by John Rickerd.

 
tboullem
Mobbs (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 17:43
I have some faith in the boy that he can become a far better player than we have seen so far. Clearly he has taken time to fit in with a very different club than Watford. His body language does leave a bit to be desired and a haircut wuld not go amiss - work in progress, keep going Noah.

 
MESSAGES->author
Howlin (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 18:06
Commentators John have a wide audience and sphere of influence, particlularly on teh young and those new to teh game,with which, I believe anyway, comes a certain responsibility. Spectators on the other hand , maybe should know better, but are on the whole the ones being influenced. They tend only to irritate those standing or sitting nearby, although the particularly vociferous can have an effect on the players too. The latter point I believe is what started this thread. Do pay attention.



Saint til I die

 
MESSAGES->author
Saint.Kenneth (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 18:09
Did anyone listen to Spoony interviewing chatting with Sir Alex Ferguson on BBC Radio 5?

In the discussion, Sir Alex comments along the lines of why anyone would boo at a player that was on the team that they support and that during a game, isn't it to everyones best interests to offer support instead of getting on the players back. He then said that at the end of some matches he felt like booing himself!

This thread is a refreshing change. When Cato jogged back to gather the ball I was screaming for him to hurry up and will admit there were a few choice words of bemusement when the try was scored but only last week he was one of the better players in the match against Sale.



http://lowrence.com/_Media/stken.gif

 
John Rickerd
John Rickerd (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 19:07
Howlin, I sat there on Saturday afternoon watching a great game, and listening to Stuart Barnes waxing lyrical about Myler/Saints style etc. and I thought what are they going to have to moan about? I should have known better.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/02/2012 19:09 by John Rickerd.

 
MESSAGES->author
St Marlowe (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 19:23
John
I think that the objection to Barnes runs deeper than what he might or might not say about our players. They only really serve as a point of reference.

Commentators used to commentate

Now they have to fulfil the prophesies made as they hype up the matches their masters wish to sell. For the first half it was easy for SB - listen to his pre match and asides in the 1st half. In the second half it became clear that the Saints were paling very well, and he had to change tack instantly. That is what irks. There is no overall picture - it is all soundbites and instant opinion


Quote:
Howlin' said above
sphere of influence, particlularly on teh young and those new to teh game,with which, I believe anyway, comes a certain responsibility.



David L

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

- Live wrong and preposterously

 
sainttaff
sainttaff (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 19:40
Dave, let's take it away from the saints for a minute.

Falcons, bottom of the table, if they were to improve overnight and pick up a few good results, you wouldn't want them to change their oppinion??

 
MESSAGES->author
Howlin (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 20:47
Wasn't talking about Barnes specifically John, nor about Sunday. Simply answering your question in the context of this thread.

Mind you if you want an example, it was about 9 mins in Barnes re-enforced the pre match comments from his lacky (regarding the fact that Saints are all about forward power and nothing out wide) that when the Saints forwards are involved it turns out Ok but when their backs get involved it all goes wrong (sic) then around a minute later we score the first try created by the involvement of several of our backs. Sometimes the match doesn't go to script. I don't think it's moaning. I simply think it is inaccurate and mostly unnecessary. He obviously enjoyed the game at the end and is a fan of open running rugby. Thing is opposition tactics, playing conditions and the way a match is refereed can all have an influence on the manner in which a team plays. The Saints team on Sunday was pretty much the same as against Sale, but the three factors I mentioned above were all very different. It's a shame that the "experts" can't explain these things rather than making such sweeping judgements of what a team is or isn't.



Saint til I die



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/02/2012 20:58 by Howlin.

 
ElmaFudd.
ElmaFudd. (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 21:09
I must admit there are a few who stand near me who aren't forgiving of Noah if he makes any mistakes. I think he's has a pretty steady 1st season with us and as his confidence is growing his performances are improving. I do think Digger playing at Full Back has helped as the two seem to get on and Diggers experience on the wing for us has helped Cato. I expect him to get a few more starts and improve now.

 
MESSAGES->author
St Marlowe (IP Logged)

Re: Cato
27 February, 2012 22:21
Nigel
I did just that!!
Quote:
…..deeper than what he might or might not say about our players. They only really serve as a point of reference.



David L

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

- Live wrong and preposterously


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