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Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: St Marlowe (IP Logged)
Date: 25 March, 2012 14:34

On behalf of English and French Clubs vs the Rabo Direct.

Saying that unless the qualification criteria are amended to ensure an evenly mediated route into the competition (1e top 8 from each league) - England and France (who have set up a working partnership) will give the statutory 2 years notice to ERC. This is to ensure that Celtic sides don't just rest their players for the HC



David L

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

- Live wrong and preposterously

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: StBleach (IP Logged)
Date: 25 March, 2012 14:48

About time..

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: Rubadubdub; remember Seb Tubb? (IP Logged)
Date: 25 March, 2012 14:59

Where's the link; or is it in the birdcage lining paper?

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: andysaint (IP Logged)
Date: 25 March, 2012 15:40

In the paper, very sensible

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: St Marlowe (IP Logged)
Date: 25 March, 2012 15:46

sorry - it's in the Rugby Paper



David L

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

- Live wrong and preposterously



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 25/03/2012 17:12 by St Marlowe.

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: Chris B (IP Logged)
Date: 25 March, 2012 16:35

Angry post from Kettering in 5... 4... 3...

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: St Francis (IP Logged)
Date: 25 March, 2012 19:13

Don't worry, the Celts will probably declare independence from the ERC themselves, and with their exclusive access to North Sea oil resources they will prosper and ultimately succeed, eclipsing the hated English. *

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: ChrisG (IP Logged)
Date: 25 March, 2012 19:21

Serge Blanco admitted the Franglo league has already been discussed at length before, i'd guess something is already loosely in place.

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
Date: 25 March, 2012 20:19

I don't think it would make much difference - the same clubs would probably still qualify and the ones that count would probably still be able to rest their players.



Reinstate the Fulham 1!

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: Matthew (IP Logged)
Date: 25 March, 2012 22:54

Then there'd be nothing to lose by not making the change, eh?

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: Eif Jones (IP Logged)
Date: 26 March, 2012 01:15

The last time the English clubs spat out their dummy, what happened?

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: bazster (IP Logged)
Date: 26 March, 2012 05:07

Quote:
Eif Jones
The last time the English clubs spat out their dummy, what happened?

"On behalf of English and French Clubs..."

I'd like to see the Rabble League make the HC work as a Celtic Cup. It would have all the commercial appeal of, say, the Rabble League...whereas the English and French clubs would simply toddle off and realise their dream of a global Super Cup, and wait for the Rabble League clubs to come begging for a slice of the pie.

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: St Marlowe (IP Logged)
Date: 26 March, 2012 07:13

unfortunately it missed you


This time there is more reason - perhaps you should wonder why France is involved this time?

or perhaps not - competitions usually start from some sort of level playing field. This one does not.



David L

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

- Live wrong and preposterously

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: Duckonstilts (IP Logged)
Date: 26 March, 2012 10:20

As much as I agree with the idea its a little unfair on the Italians at the moment. They only recently joined the league. Otherwise... Tough luck.

The question would be how long some teams could last without HC money.

Personally I think 5 places per league is fair... And 1 place each to spain, romania, portugal, russia and someone else would be good. ( for new away trips :-) )

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: walks10 (IP Logged)
Date: 26 March, 2012 10:35

exclude all provinces / franchises and make it a Club rugby competition*

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: St Marlowe (IP Logged)
Date: 26 March, 2012 11:49

thumbs down



David L

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

- Live wrong and preposterously

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: OldPete (IP Logged)
Date: 26 March, 2012 12:24

I am convinced that if all of this came to pass - and a French club kept winning it - then some new or recycled whinge would emerge

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: bazster (IP Logged)
Date: 26 March, 2012 12:52

Quote:
OldPete
I am convinced that if all of this came to pass - and a French club kept winning it - then some new or recycled whinge would emerge

Of course! We'd be back to moaning about the celery cap then! (Sm14)

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: Eif Jones (IP Logged)
Date: 26 March, 2012 13:02

The English clubs got 7 this time I believe, only 1 through to the QF. So what next? 1 more club and give them a 1 black handicap in every game.

If the English and French followed the stricter unwritten constraints on non-qualified, would that make it fairer for the Rabo teams? I suppose 'Walks10' the game at New Stradey of 14 Welsh plus 1 Fijian versus 8 English plus 7 from countries too numerous to mention in your terms is a good reason to exclude Welsh regions in favour of English clubs.

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: bazster (IP Logged)
Date: 26 March, 2012 13:34

Perhaps if the Rabble clubs were needing to work bloody hard at qualifying for next season's tournament at the same time as qualifying for this season's QF's then the English and French clubs would do better, having started from a level playing field.

What "unwritten constraints"? If they're unwritten they don't exist, the tournament is skewed enough as it is without half-baked rules you just made up.

Anyway, no amount of Taff whingeing will count for anything if the English and French clubs walk.

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: smurfomatic (IP Logged)
Date: 26 March, 2012 13:44

Perhaps if the Rabo teams had to qualify, they'd need to bring in more foreign players?

I'd love it if Saints could play a team of 15 EQP, but I don't think at the moment there is the talent around to maintain a full league of English players. Is there enough talent in Wales to put out 4 teams at the top level of Welsh players?



Photo Gallery

SWH12 - May 10th 2014

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: St Marlowe (IP Logged)
Date: 26 March, 2012 13:45

Quote:
Eif
stricter unwritten constraints on non-qualified


Your grasp on reality has now slipped beyond recovery



David L

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

- Live wrong and preposterously

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: Neil-H (IP Logged)
Date: 26 March, 2012 14:13

The tournament is made of 3 leagues?

so why not top 8 from each league?... can you get fairer than that?

Of course, it might be a bit harsh on the Italians... the scots are ok at present...

Or you could say from Rabo top Irish, welsh, Scots n Italian qualify and then next 4 qualify?

that way the clubs have to play and put strongest teams out more regulary and then you may get the crowds improving, as games mean more?

Take into account this weekend, Scarlet vs Cardiff... all of the welsh internationals were rested?.. a big welsh game and the supporters dont get to see the internationals???...

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: Yorkie (IP Logged)
Date: 26 March, 2012 14:28

The key to this are the contacts within French rugby that a certain newly arrived owner of a west country club has. Helps to explain why his "marque" player suggestion was given an airing and approved. All part of a long game...

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: RedSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 26 March, 2012 15:04

Quote:
Eif Jones
If the English and French followed the stricter unwritten constraints on non-qualified, would that make it fairer for the Rabo teams? I suppose 'Walks10' the game at New Stradey of 14 Welsh plus 1 Fijian versus 8 English plus 7 from countries too numerous to mention in your terms is a good reason to exclude Welsh regions in favour of English clubs.

So, out of curiosity, how did you feel when the Wales side walked off the Millennium Stadium pitch as Grand Slam champions this year with more non-Welsh than Welsh players in the XV which ended the game - six of them English?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 26/03/2012 15:14 by RedSaint.

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: OldPete (IP Logged)
Date: 26 March, 2012 16:58

petty nationalisms and underlying prejudices all round methinks - clouding judgements distorting perceptions and lowering the tone.

But then its so much easier to cry unfair about the perceived advantages of others than to address the home grown handicaps that the english based clubs seem to relish so much - salary cap - relegation - a plethora of international calls ups and disruptions - might it not be that the combined effect of these has far more effect on the success or otherwise of English based clubs than Ospreys or Leinster getting an easier run at qualification for the H cup.

Or We might also wonder what has changed since Wasps and Leicester dominated Europe - was it more difficult for the Munsters etc to qualify then ?

No it wasnt - so lets look at why English based clubs have slipped backwards - first .

and in case there is any doubt I am only interested in the progress and success of one club - which happens to be based in England - Northampton Saints. -

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: bazster (IP Logged)
Date: 26 March, 2012 17:16

Quote:
OldPete
Or We might also wonder what has changed since Wasps and Leicester dominated Europe - was it more difficult for the Munsters etc to qualify then ?

That they were successful despite the inequity doesn't make it any less of an inequity.

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: Saint Dom (IP Logged)
Date: 26 March, 2012 20:08

What has changed?

The salary cap has been introduced and - it appears - enforced a bit more. This makes more English teams capable of winning their division. On top of that, therefore (perhaps it was the intention of the salary cap), the English Premiership has become far more competitive - but also much more attritional.

As we all know (but the Celts reject this line of reasoning), every game in the AP is a matter of life and death. Hence, not much juice left for fripperies such as the Heineken.

The question for us is:

Do we love club rugby per se? (I do).
And, is that at the expense of European competitions and internationals?

Probably, it is...



http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/99/99_0_1202835632.jpg
*I could agree with you - but then we'd both be wrong...*

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: Rich W (IP Logged)
Date: 27 March, 2012 11:15

Isn't a large part of this about the financial viability of the HEC? In essence it has long been held by PRL that the HEC does not deliver anywhere near what it should from a commercial perspective making it not only a competition that is skewed against the English and French clubs due to its competitive structure but which is not as profitable as the domestic league.

It's not just that the HEC is harder for those clubs to succeed in it's at least as much that it just isn't worth the effort.



...
In my little town
I never meant nothin'
I was just my fathers son
Saving my money
Dreaming of glory
Twitching like a finger
On the trigger of a gun
Leaving nothing but the dead and dying
Back in my little town

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: OldPete (IP Logged)
Date: 27 March, 2012 11:17

Dom - club rugby to my mind includes the Heiniken

what irks me is the tendency to blame the Celts advantages for the lack of success by English based clubs.There are many more reasons for lackof sucess than that one.

I dont doubt that that their route to the competition is easier than for English and French based clubs. But no matter how many wish lists are produced - there are different set ups for rugby in different places.

And even if some other system of qualifying was put in place across the competition ( and I am not against that ) I still think that English based clubs would be at a disadvantage -most of it self inflicted .



" Every man his own King , every woman her own Queen -
we bend the knee to nobody " Basque proverb.

 
Re: Simon Cohen spits dummy
Posted by: ChrisG (IP Logged)
Date: 27 March, 2012 18:52

Nothing to do with nationalities, just the laws of the respective competitions, lets jump ship and go in with the French, makes sense to me. Then the top eight from the Pro and the Franglo compete for the European Cup.

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