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Alex Day...
Discussion started by Phil. , 17 April, 2015 17:03
Alex Day...
Phil. 17 April, 2015 17:03

Re: Alex Day...
Bernie 17 April, 2015 17:08
Don't you think it was inevitable after the lad coming the other way. With Kahn, Dicko and Hodgson already here and Alex getting no game time?



Per Ardua Ad Astra

Re: Alex Day...
SaintED 17 April, 2015 17:13
Hooley now Day. Not good news. The young lad looked exceptional for England. Best of luck and hope that he enjoys his time at Pirates. If he finds his way to the Chiefs eventually then no one will be surprised.

Re: Alex Day...
st cupid 17 April, 2015 18:05
Clearly not good enough in the eyes of JM and AK . I suspect the majority of youngsters who play for England junior sides do not make it at the highest level . In my view neither good or bad news - only thing that matters is strengthening the current squad . I for one very happy with the signings to date.

Re: Alex Day...
tws 17 April, 2015 19:06
I'm afraid that he fact he's going to Pirates says it all. No Premiership club looking to sign him.

He looked at one time that he'd make it. Good luck to him.

Re: Alex Day...
Alan B 17 April, 2015 21:52
Just wondering whether this route (like Glynn to Jersey) is a way to find experience.it must be very difficult in these pressure positions to break through directly.

Some will find their way back in 2-3 years time.

Re: Alex Day...
ch saint 17 April, 2015 22:10
Any young man that makes it into the Saints academy and the England under 20 or whatever, is by definition highly talented, but it's harsh in professional sport and as much as we admire young talent, if any back is not in the first team squad aged say 22 they must move on.
I have seen years and years of statements on this site about our youth prospects, Broonie would regularly extol the virtues of our youth. In reality very very few make it through to the top.
It's harsh brutal and competitive. Good luck to Alex at the Pirates.

Re: Alex Day...
Guildford Saint 18 April, 2015 02:48
Good luck Alex. Hope you get the chance to show how good you are.

Re: Alex Day...
pinky 18 April, 2015 08:15
Agree tough environment the prem... But it's the lack of opportunities these lads get in the backs in particular, because clubs bring top class players from overseas, or league. Which is strange as I would have thought the forwards would have struggled. But that's not the case here... Only the backs. In the last 5 years we have only progressed Jamie and Stephenson.

Look at how well Exeter are doing, Nowell, slade, hill and at wasps wade, Elliott and lowaski (sorry not sure how you spell his name), and Gloucester and Quins have several academy backs, but their teams have struggled, mainly to lack of a strong forward pack.

Here the saints buy in players, but I guess that's why we are champions and have been in the top four a while now... I would love to see the saints give more senior opportunities, but I can't see it happening with the current coaches.

So we will no doubt here more young backs leaving over the next 12 months or so...

I here the Hodgson is off too...

This is just my view, not trying to cause an argument, I think we have some talented backs and England youth system have felt the same way.

England U18's have won the European championship 3 time in the last 4 years only losing this year. In the previous years we have had day, Hooley, Stephenson, Olver, packman, Collins and skelcey.

Engalnd U20's have won the JWC the last two years and again day, Hooley, packman and Olver were involved in those, beating SA last year in NZ and the SA 10 in that game is now a full international.

But, other clubs like mentioned above have given their young lads opportunities and here they don't get the same, with North, Pisi and Foden you have an international back 3 and with Khan, Dickson international 9's and then we only play one 10 - Myler, no one ever gets an opportunity... It would be great if for the odd game like last year (but due to injury) when Collins got an opportunity to play with the best... And he stood out, what I am trying to say, the saints need to do this more and in a controlled way... Otherwise when North, Ken and Foden leave we will spend another 1 million replacing them.

But, hey good luck Alex and Hooley, hope you manage to have a great career and as ex saints players we will always look out for you.

Re: Alex Day...
LaurieK 18 April, 2015 08:47
This one of these circular arguments. If they're good enough they will play. If not, Saints will buy. Jim would not spend loads of money on a new player if a ready made alternative was available. There are enough examples of players coming through the ranks. When did we last buy a first team hookers?

I bemoan the fact that we do not produce backs but that is the way of the world. We produce front rowers. Exeter have the whole of the south west as their academy patch, we compete with Tiggs, Wasps and London clubs. Not many internationals come from East Anglia.

Good luck to Alex. At the high end of sport it is a brutal business. There's no guarantee that youthful promise can transfer to the men's game. Saints have to seek the best and plan for some of them to be developed internally. They do it pretty well.

Re: Alex Day...
Connorman 18 April, 2015 09:28
Quote:
LaurieK
Not many internationals come from East Anglia

Apart from G North * (well, up until the age of 14 weeks anyway....)

Re: Alex Day...
ch saint 18 April, 2015 09:31
Yes I agree with both Laurie and pinkman and let me say at the outset that I hope Alex comes through and proves us wrong. However how many backs have left us to then go onto the very top level, (don't even like saying that because it implies a put down to those that have left), few which I suppose says we are not bringing sufficient through.
Crude as it is I believe that backs have to be physical beasts nowadays, looking at the Clermont I thought they were massive, stats may prove me wrong but they were simply bigger and more skilful on the day. That is the standard we have to reach, or simply look at Bath.
I recall talking to Bret Taylor, who at the time was responsible for youth development and went out to places like Long Buckby, his aim was to develop about 2 first team quality players a year and he said it was so so difficult, they are a rare commodity. They are not easy to find and develop, all the more reason for a massive academy.
The plethora of overseas players are dominated by Islanders from the S Hemisphere, they are big, strong and apparently naturally gifted at ball handling and running. Possibly also from less materially wealthy societies which when combined with the physical attributes gives them the complete package, motivation, skill, size and speed. It's a very competitive world to ply your trade in.

Re: Alex Day...
skybluesaint 18 April, 2015 10:33
I'm all for giving youngsters a chance, but not at the expense of winning an AP match. And the AP is so competitive (LW aside, this season) that an off day by one player can be decisive. Hooley was usually excellent, but a poor day with the boot cost us a game against Tigers, I recall. What is gratifying is that players like Elliott, Stephenson, Alex Waller and Haywood are trusted week in, week out. Teams like the Welsh regions are not under the same pressure and anyway can't afford to bring in internationals. So they have to play youngsters, and benefit occasionally as a result, but couldn't do so in the AP, and wouldn't do so if they didn't have to. I think most AP clubs, Saints in particular, get the balance about right. As has been suggested, it is difficult to name a single young Saints player who has left but blossomed elsewhere. One day perhaps someone will do so, perhaps Alex Day or Will Hooley, but he'll be the exception who proves the rule.

Re: Alex Day...
SaintED 18 April, 2015 13:34
Quote:
skybluesaint
Hooley was usually excellent, but a poor day with the boot cost us a game against Tigers, I recall.

I recall a fair few of those from Myler too! It's a valid point you make but obviously there is risk as well as reward in trying new players. If the LV really is scrapped and we don't want to risk Academy prospects in AP games it's going to be tricky to see how good they are.

Quote:
skybluesaint
What is gratifying is that players like Elliott, Stephenson, Alex Waller and Haywood are trusted week in, week out.

I think in some ways that's true but I also think that the team generally supports and introduces forwards (Wallers and Haywood) better than it does backs. Ofc that may be for all manner of reason; that they are just better prospects, that because of West we are better at bringing along forwards, that injuries meant we begun their introduction earlier than we would normally etc.

Our backs aren't the biggest (Elliot, Collins, Olver, Packman) although Stephenson and Mallinder jnr are both decent sizes but they have the talent and in Stephenson I think you have a player who should be starting no matter what other centres are available.


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