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Jackson Garden-Bachop update
Discussion started by Wilson Pickett , 19 October, 2017 09:37
Jackson Garden-Bachop update
Wilson Pickett 19 October, 2017 09:37
Named player of the year by Wellington in the Mitre Cup.

Been given a 2 year contract by the Hurricanes.


Would have cost £400-500k less than Biggar and played every week. And the board moan about money, you do have to wonder sometimes.


[www.newshub.co.nz]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19/10/2017 09:38 by HungryLikeTheWolf.

Re: Jackson Garden-Bachop update
Duckonstilts 19 October, 2017 10:30
Biggar is one of those signings that are made as a statement rather than an actual specific need. He could be very good for us, he is undoubtedly a very good player but i think its more about putting Saints in the press and selling season tickets rather than him being the best value for money.

I like Exeters way of building a squad (and Saracens to be fair) Put very good players in all positions rather than signing the best in the world in one or two positions. We all saw what happens when you have a poor team with one or two super stars. Worcester tried it a few times, so did we, it never works.

There is definite value for money to be had in the southern hemisphere but not a lot of New Zealanders want to risk there chance of playing for the all blacks. Islanders tend to be easier to attract, as they usually have a lower earning potential back home. We have done well with the ones we have signed IMO.

I will however bow to your knowledge on this subject HLTW as you have been right about Horne and Francis so far.

Re: Jackson Garden-Bachop update
ch saint 19 October, 2017 18:56
Agree with Duckonstilts on this. Bachop would have come and would have fitted the model used by Sarries and Exeter. Instead we pay a silly amount.
And the club were informed about him.
The club certainly can't complain about not have enough money.

Re: Jackson Garden-Bachop update
SaintsDuncan 19 October, 2017 19:21
"I'm really happy to be settled in my home town and able to play my provincial and Super Rugby in one place and in my hometown and close to my family," he said.

"Growing up in Wellington I always dreamed of playing for the Hurricanes, so I'm pretty happy to this opportunity.

"The Hurricanes have some world class players, especially in my position and I'm looking forward to learning off and working alongside players like Beauden Barrett."

I appreciate it's written for an audience, but none of that screams "anxious to play in England"

Re: Jackson Garden-Bachop update
Wilson Pickett 19 October, 2017 20:21
His Dad played in England for 4 years. I assume he spent 1998-2002 living in the UK (aged 4-8?). He will be a sub behind Barrett for at least the next year. He was playing at Melbourne earlier in the year because he couldn't get a super rugby contract in NZ "come and get me!", then had to prove himself in the Mitre Cup to get this deal.


Would be amazed if he wouldn't have moved for first team rugby, more money and exposure in the UK, following in Dads footsteps.



Maybe you are right but I am sure we didn't ask the question, which is really the issue IMHO.

Re: Jackson Garden-Bachop update
Saint For Life 19 October, 2017 20:40
Let’s have another dig , conclusion but no facts , start a rumour , fake news, club not on the same wave band therefore must be clueless , blah , blah , blah . As I posted the other day a bit of a laugh albeit gutter rather than quality press .

Re: Jackson Garden-Bachop update
Wilson Pickett 19 October, 2017 20:52
Quote:
Saint For Life
Let’s have another dig , conclusion but no facts , start a rumour , fake news, club not on the same wave band therefore must be clueless , blah , blah , blah . As I posted the other day a bit of a laugh albeit gutter rather than quality press .


Well feel free to actually post something about rugby instead of just dribbling on the keyboard (I assume you’d never even heard of Jackson).

Re: Jackson Garden-Bachop update
TringSaint 19 October, 2017 21:54
Is it really necessary for every post to turn into a p*****g contest?
We can’t sign everyone and not everyone we talk to will want to sign with us.

We all know your opinion on recruitment wolfy, so why not tender for dusty hare’s vacant role? I’m sure you will have us winning the prem with a glut of World Cup winners and superstars all of which sign for buttons!

Re: Jackson Garden-Bachop update
Neil-H 19 October, 2017 22:46
Quick question???

How do you know we didn't approach him and got turn down???

You don't?

Did we I doubt it, but you don't know?

And he has only really been playing Mitre 10, how much super rugby he played, Melbourne, err right..if he had shone then he would had another contract elsewhere without having to go to Mitre surely?

Mitre is inbetween Premiership and Championship imho, then add in internationals and it steps a level but not premiership cause of all imports in The game here, so having to go back to Mitre to get a super contract to me says he didn't shine at Melbourne? Bit like Botica is it, same boat?

And yes player of the year for his club, as just named... but we been in Talks with Biggar before Bachop had this season for last few months so it's not that straight forward is it? Suppose he'd had a stinker, got injured first game of season???

I not disagreeing with your opinion, he may end up a class player, would cost less than Biggar, but we may have approached him and said no cus he wanted to stay and fight for caps if good enough, which I doubt, and we comparing him now well after we had signed Biggar, bit like comparing apples n pears mate?

Just saying it's not as clear cut as you appear to post at times smiling smiley

But like Duck, I appreciate your input on SH club games, as don't get to watch as much as I'd like. As can't afford a divorce LOL

Re: Jackson Garden-Bachop update
Saint For Life 19 October, 2017 23:05
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf
Quote:
Saint For Life
Let’s have another dig , conclusion but no facts , start a rumour , fake news, club not on the same wave band therefore must be clueless , blah , blah , blah . As I posted the other day a bit of a laugh albeit gutter rather than quality press .


Well feel free to actually post something about rugby instead of just dribbling on the keyboard (I assume you’d never even heard of Jackson).

I have heard of Jackson - but so what . Love it - someone who again makes assumptions based on diddly squat . Thanks for confirming my view re gutter press .

Re: Jackson Garden-Bachop update
Wilson Pickett 19 October, 2017 23:27
Gutter press ? This is a saints fans site which is a tiny pro sports club, with about 50 active posters. It’s hardly The Sun opinion column. Anyway make some rugby comments like Neil.

Neil my point is that NZ has a huge pool of 10s. A third choice NZ super rugby franchise 10 would still do a job in the Aviva Prem. We would have close to no chance in signing one of the first choices (Barrett, Sopoaga, Mo’uga, Mackenzie). So you have to go down one level.

Despite my bromance with Piers I would rather have Jackson at 10, for example. Biggar is a class player and apparently great bloke, im sure he will be very good for us. But we are not Saracens. The point is not whether Biggar is good or Bachop is ok. The point is finances. We are struggling financially and need to be making these moneyball signings. We need to be doing more Nic Groome’s, Jamie Gibson’s and David Ribbans.


Tring - Don’t moan about Saracens having loads more money when you are not prepared to critique our outgoings.

Re: Jackson Garden-Bachop update
Eif Jones 20 October, 2017 01:35
Hungry - not sure you are right, not all NZ number 10s are that good. Personally, I'm not that impressed with the Munster out-half (his name is too complicated to quote), has good games interspersed with not so good.

For quite a while Saints have been short of a quality no 10, they tried signing about 3 Irish plus Lamb, all a disappointment, Biggar is certainly an improvement. The problem, they also need better back row forwards, especially a ball playing turnover master no 7 and having post Picamoles a quality ball carrying 8. All very expensive I'm afraid with little input from the academy to lessen the cost. Not sure about the props either, again this season we are seeing Waller being asked to work beyond the call of duty.

Re: Jackson Garden-Bachop update
Walks11 20 October, 2017 07:15
It’s the difference between someone who has proven ability at a level against someone that might. Of course the latter is cheaper but at a risk that they may not actually be able to cut it at that level. If your strategy is to sign a squad full of maybe’ you could end up with not a lot. You sign the like sof Biggar knowing what he can do and just have to weigh up whether it’s worth the expense.

We do seem to think that anyone and everyone wants to run through the gates at the Gardens at the slightest hint of interest. I’m sure there are lots of offers that apwe make that are turned down for whatever reason that we have no idea about

Re: Jackson Garden-Bachop update
TringSaint 20 October, 2017 07:59
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf


Tring - Don’t moan about Saracens having loads more money when you are not prepared to critique our outgoings.

You really make me laugh at times. You obviously watch a lot of SH rugby and you know which players are doing well, but your direct correlation between playing well in NZ and playing well in Uk is farcical.

We have a long wet winter which turns most teams style from throw it about to tuck it up the jumper. So a mercurial 10 in NZ ends up being s busted flush over here.

What’s even funnier is that every time some young upcoming player in the SH signs a contract to stay where they are, you jump on your soapbox and start slagging the coaching team off and saying that they are missing all this super value talent.

You have absolutely no idea how these contracts are negotiated and have even less of an idea about the motivations of those involved, yet still you insist we should be signing all these fringe guys in order to win the prem.

Is that how Exeter and sarries do it? Nope.

What is starting to grate on here is that every topic turns into the same pathetic ‘I know more than you do’ bickering.

It’s not big and certainly not clever, and someone with you self proclaimed knowledge should be aware that we all have our own views and none of them are wrong.

Re: Jackson Garden-Bachop update
LeicesterSaint 20 October, 2017 09:46
I don't agree that success in another league translates to success in the prem but I'm fairly sure anyone growing up in NZ will have had plenty of practice playing in wet weather! There's a tendency to focus on the flash touches from good fly halves but off the top of my head successful UK imports like Goppeth and Evans were just as good at controlling a game and kicking points (Goppeth in particular at Newcastle).

Re: Jackson Garden-Bachop update
Wilson Pickett 20 October, 2017 10:08
Quote:
TringSaint
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf


Tring - Don’t moan about Saracens having loads more money when you are not prepared to critique our outgoings.

You really make me laugh at times. You obviously watch a lot of SH rugby and you know which players are doing well, but your direct correlation between playing well in NZ and playing well in Uk is farcical.

We have a long wet winter which turns most teams style from throw it about to tuck it up the jumper. So a mercurial 10 in NZ ends up being s busted flush over here.

What’s even funnier is that every time some young upcoming player in the SH signs a contract to stay where they are, you jump on your soapbox and start slagging the coaching team off and saying that they are missing all this super value talent.

You have absolutely no idea how these contracts are negotiated and have even less of an idea about the motivations of those involved, yet still you insist we should be signing all these fringe guys in order to win the prem.

Is that how Exeter and sarries do it? Nope.

What is starting to grate on here is that every topic turns into the same pathetic ‘I know more than you do’ bickering.

It’s not big and certainly not clever, and someone with you self proclaimed knowledge should be aware that we all have our own views and none of them are wrong.


On the weather - it rains more over there than here mate! They play in torrential weather every year.


Sarries do exactly this with South Africans. Mainly forwards granted. They hoover up sub premium Boks..... I thought that was quite clear. Luckily they can mix in a great catchment area for english too.

Exeter do exactly this with Australians. You do realise these are all sub premium aussies?


Alec Hepburn
Mitch Lees
Dave Dennis
Lachy Turner
Greg Holmes
Ben White
Ollie Atkins
Julian Salvi

Plus of course Dean Mumm was great for them.


On the last point not fussed. No problem with you or any other poster. Here to just talk rugby.

Re: Jackson Garden-Bachop update
Nath-coys 20 October, 2017 11:03
Now now gents! Haha

I agree with both of you really.

Starting every Half decent SH player and saying he will be great and so cost effective and all this is all well and good but i don't think it is as cut and dry as that all the time.

But I also agree with HLTW that we are probably not tapping in too the SH pool of talent as cleverly as we could.

But also think we are starting to create bit of our own South African group of players.

Van wyk
Ribbans
Brussow
Groom
Reinach.

I also think Biggar will be a quality addition.

Re: Jackson Garden-Bachop update
Wilson Pickett 20 October, 2017 12:05
Horizontally relaxed, Tring gets wound up because I disagree with a lot of his thoughts. It isn’t personal....

Re: Jackson Garden-Bachop update
TringSaint 20 October, 2017 12:47
no wolfy, you shout down and demean anyone who doesnt see what you see or agree with your views.

Re: Jackson Garden-Bachop update
Wilson Pickett 20 October, 2017 13:01
When have I done that - please give examples. Reminds me of when you accused me of always being critical of players despite not being able to find an example and having one of the most bullish season forecasts......


Sure I respond and send it back over the net with logic.


e.g. it rains shed loads in NZ and Exeter/Saracens sign loads of overseas sub premium stars.


It’s just a rugby board, chill. Don’t take it personally, we all support the same team.

Re: Jackson Garden-Bachop update
shendy 20 October, 2017 13:06
Sad to say but I agree - this site is becoming more like the HLTW-show.

Re: Jackson Garden-Bachop update
Wilson Pickett 20 October, 2017 13:20
happy to post less, but others need to start posting their own rugby related topics and give views on other threads. Often there are hundreds of views and no replies, or days with no new topics.


The Eds need a vibrant busy board or it gets shut down hence trying to get conversations going. Last week it was literally dead for 3 days.


Will go on read-only for a bit, all good.

Re: Jackson Garden-Bachop update
Saint Swill 20 October, 2017 16:48
I'm OK with Wolfie's contributions.

He keeps it buzzing.

For me, he's like Eif. They're both passionate about the game. I may not agree with what they say, but they are never abusive, they don't bruise easily and there's generally something interesting in their posts that makes me stop and think for a moment.

Where's the harm in that?

Re: Jackson Garden-Bachop update
shendy 20 October, 2017 19:08
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf
The Eds need a vibrant busy board or it gets shut down hence trying to get conversations going. Last week it was literally dead for 3 days.

Will go on read-only for a bit, all good.

It only needs an article posting every 2 weeks to keep it up - message board doesn't feed into that at all.

I'm definitely not saying "go" Wolfie - in fact (serious suggestion) why not put some of your views into articles? Puts it into one place and keeps the site going!


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