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John Rickerd
Teams up
John Rickerd (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 11:35
SAINTS TEAM TO FACE SALE SHARKS
Aviva Premiership Round 9
AJ Bell Stadium
Saturday 25 November 2017
Kick-off 5:30pm

15 Harry Mallinder
14 Juan Pablo Estelles
13 Rory Hutchinson
12 Tom Stephenson
11 Ben Foden
10 James Gryason
9 Cobus Reinach
1 Alex Waller
2 Mikey Haywood
3 Jamal Ford-Robinson
4 Michael Paterson
5 Sam Dickinson (capt)
6 Tom Wood
7 Jamie Gibson
8 Teimana Harrison

16 Reece Marshall
17 Francois van Wyk
18 Paul Hill
19 Alex Moon
20 Mitch Eadie
21 Nic Groom
22 Stephen Myler
23 Tom Collin

Could someone please explain Sam Dickinson as captain, and Nic Groom on the bench.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24/11/2017 11:38 by John Rickerd.

 
brancastersaint
Re: Teams up
brancastersaint (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 11:42
Well if the forwards can secure us some ball we have a set of backs to go and attack, I just hope that's the instructions from Jim and Doreen anyway
COYS!!!

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Teams up
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 11:43
Youíd have to be smoking some high class weed to not start Groom.

Hilarious just chucking Grayson in there. No game time in LV etc, just wanged straight in away at Sale. But hey, Iím glad heís playing.


So heís good enough to start this game, but next year is third choice? So why sign Biggar.... very muddled minds on show here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24/11/2017 11:45 by HungryLikeTheWolf.

 
tedge
Re: Teams up
tedge (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 11:44
The only other contenders for the captaincy would be Wood or Foden, both of whom have been tried before. Although forced by injuries this looks a bit of a Wanderers side. Some of the selections are a bit baffling. Logic suggests they are in for a good stuffing but you never know - things can't get too much worse.

 
Saint For Life
Re: Teams up
Saint For Life (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 11:49
Very simple explanation JR - almost certainly part of a strategy to wind up moaners on social media sites .
With injuries , international calls and a Suspension that must be 17 of the squad not available for the match . Getting a bit thin on the ground and I suspect we are going to be in for a hard time tomorrow. Sale looked good away to a rapidly improving tigers last week and will be even stronger at home. Congratulations and best of luck to young Grayson - I fear he may need it. Heart expects a win but my head tells me we will struggle to even get a bonus point .

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Teams up
Stockers (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 11:51
Enough doom and gloom!

The team need our support before a big game like this so,

COME ON YOU SAINTS!

 
andysaint
Re: Teams up
andysaint (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 11:55
I think it's great that 4 of our backline have come from our academy and good on them for getting starts in this league and away. I am looking forward to seeing how they cope. In terms of the pack, this is well known to be our weakness at the moment and I do not see what the coaches have done between last week and this week to facilitate a significant change. Personally, I think that Sale are the favourites and can see a 10-15 point win for them. Based on the team sheet, I would be pleased if we got a point.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Teams up
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 12:08
Quote:
andysaint
I think it's great that 4 of our backline have come from our academy and good on them for getting starts in this league and away. I am looking forward to seeing how they cope. In terms of the pack, this is well known to be our weakness at the moment and I do not see what the coaches have done between last week and this week to facilitate a significant change. Personally, I think that Sale are the favourites and can see a 10-15 point win for them. Based on the team sheet, I would be pleased if we got a point.


Well yeah I guess but I think itís rank poor player management. Instead of gradually giving them Game time, blood one per week, especially in the LV.... nope just chuck all 4 ex wanderers in, in the same game. In one of the hardest away games.

And in a game where we will get done up front. Frankly itís very poor thinking IMHO.

 
Saint Ted
Re: Teams up
Saint Ted (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 12:10
People have been crying out for changes, changes have been made, it's an interesting squad, and arguably one of the more exciting ones we've seen in the prem with a very youthful back line

I'm excited to see how it goes

 
Saint Ted
Re: Teams up
Saint Ted (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 12:15
Wolfie, given injuries, suspensions, international call ups, what else could be done?

It's not like any of them have had no prem experience, sometimes this is where they flurish, look at Tei

 
Walks11
Re: Teams up
Walks11 (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 12:24
Sure he would have hoped to have Burrell, Horne & possibly Francis all available so unlucky to have all 3 out.

Can the forwards produce enough to give young Grayson a fair shot and if heís good enough heís old enough IMO. Sale are dangerous so a big test for our iffy defence



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24/11/2017 12:39 by Walks11.

 
BrianB
Re: Teams up
BrianB (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 12:26
We have one centre injured and one banned. I suppose rather than playing centres we could always have gone in with 13 men.(Sm8)

I have been impressed with Larry2 when he has played. We are without Francis so why not. After all Myler is rubbish.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Teams up
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 12:39
Quote:
Saint Ted
Wolfie, given injuries, suspensions, international call ups, what else could be done?
It's not like any of them have had no prem experience, sometimes this is where they flurish, look at Tei


This year those lads have had @#$%& all first team game time? Why? Because the coaches are under pressure and so pick what they think is a gun team every game. The result being when we have some injuries, we have to start with a bunch of guys who have played some wanderers and nothing else this year.

What is the logic of starting James Grayson in this game but not against Dragons reserve team, at home.

Letís say James plays well, and I think he will. We then start James and Piers at 12 (my preference). This means next year instead of letting him kick on we have Biggar starting on stupid money and he gets splinters for 3 years. The selection has to be taken into context of overall succession planning and cap spend.


I think we will get done up front anyway

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Teams up
Saint Robert (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 12:50
Quote:
Saint Ted
People have been crying out for changes, changes have been made, it's an interesting squad, and arguably one of the more exciting ones we've seen in the prem with a very youthful back line

Exciting would not be the term I would use. Hopeful at best. If we get stuffed up front then the young backs will be put to the sword. Try bonus point win for Sale, I fear.

 
SaintsAsh
Re: Teams up
SaintsAsh (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 13:00
My goodness, I for one love this team selection. We are injury hit and with the international call ups this is a great time to use young hungry players. We will struggle to beat Sale, so lets chuck em in and get them experience. What if they managed a win??

 
tedge
Re: Teams up
tedge (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 13:07
Seven players' names end with "son" - that's odd

 
Dick Dastardly
Re: Teams up
Thrupp artist (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 13:13
The moaners will moan. Tom S is actually quite experienced and Rory H has played quite a bit. Estelles is an International who most of us have thought deserves a go. Big game of course for James Grayson and he will only prosper given good ball and protection from those up front - hopefully the forwards will deliver a 100% performance and we will make a game of it.

 
andysaint
Re: Teams up
andysaint (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 13:16
Quote:
SaintsAsh
My goodness, I for one love this team selection. We are injury hit and with the international call ups this is a great time to use young hungry players. We will struggle to beat Sale, so lets chuck em in and get them experience. What if they managed a win??

I donít think your wrong and itís a refreshing backs selection. The only caveat I have is that why have we not put Moon in at lock then? Why are Gibson and Wood at 6 and 7. It would also be nice for some if not all of these youngsters in the backs to continue into the game the week after.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Teams up
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 13:18
Quote:
Thrupp artist
The moaners will moan. Tom S is actually quite experienced and Rory H has played quite a bit. Estelles is an International who most of us have thought deserves a go. Big game of course for James Grayson and he will only prosper given good ball and protection from those up front - hopefully the forwards will deliver a 100% performance and we will make a game of it.


change for Ďrealistsí, been pretty accurate over the last couple of years - were called moaner and negative then too.

nothing wrong with hope though, we all need that in life, but Iíve given up on this management team

 
lost in duston
Re: Teams up
lost in duston (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 13:19
Well it is what it is and I hope the young backs can put some cheer back on this board!

Is it showing on tv anywhere?

 
tedge
Re: Teams up
tedge (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 13:22
Describing the backs selections as refreshing or exciting is somewhat OTT. The selections have been forced due to the non-availability of any other centres and the lack of form of Myler. I wish them well but fear for their safety.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Teams up
SaintMaul (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 13:28
The Sale team:

15 Mike Haley
14 Denny Solomona
13 Sam James
12 Mark Jennings
11 Marland Yarde
10 James OíConnor
9 Faf de Klerk
1 Ross Harrison
2 Rob Webber
3 WillGriff John
4 Bryn Evans
5 Andre Ostrikov
6 Jono Ross Captain
7 Ben Curry
8 Josh Strauss

16 Marc Jones
17 James Flynn
18 Halani Aulika
19 George Nott
20 Cameron Neild
21 Will Cliff
22 Rohan van Rensburg
23 Will Addison

 
andysaint
Re: Teams up
andysaint (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 13:57
Quote:
tedge
Describing the backs selections as refreshing or exciting is somewhat OTT. The selections have been forced due to the non-availability of any other centres and the lack of form of Myler. I wish them well but fear for their safety.

So no positives about the selection or game then?

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Teams up
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 14:00
nope

No prizes for forced selections and throwing James Grayson in the deep end. I hear they spent a long time scrummaging this week, letís see if that makes any difference.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Teams up
Neil-H (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 14:08
If we play Jamie, I would have played Groom, for quicker, better, service/pass and also an intelligent player who mostly makes the right decision, so can help Jamie.

 
Longers
Re: Teams up
Longers (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 14:17
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf
Quote:
andysaint
I think it's great that 4 of our backline have come from our academy and good on them for getting starts in this league and away. I am looking forward to seeing how they cope. In terms of the pack, this is well known to be our weakness at the moment and I do not see what the coaches have done between last week and this week to facilitate a significant change. Personally, I think that Sale are the favourites and can see a 10-15 point win for them. Based on the team sheet, I would be pleased if we got a point.


Well yeah I guess but I think itís rank poor player management. Instead of gradually giving them Game time, blood one per week, especially in the LV.... nope just chuck all 4 ex wanderers in, in the same game. In one of the hardest away games.

And in a game where we will get done up front. Frankly itís very poor thinking IMHO.

HLTW - that may be, but nothing unusual in a lack of thought, is there?

But who would you play if not this set of players? He is not exactly spoilt for choice, is he?

Last week showed that Smyler needs more game time to come up to speed. Other than putting Harry back at Fly half why not give them an outing.

 
Saint Avon
Re: Teams up
Saint Avon (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 14:22
Although limited choices available, playing Dickinson in the second row has rarely worked well and I recall this being a disaster at Sale in the recent past when we got badly beaten. Normally go to this away fixture but not this year Iím afraid.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Teams up
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 14:24
It isnít the selection per se itís player management


Why havenít these guys had game time this year? Why wasnít James started against the Dragons? What did we learn by starting Myler? Why hasnít James been on the bench for the first XV, with Piers at 10....

I donít think we manage young players well. Remember Teimana only got game time initially because of injuries.... he should have been in or on the bench for the year prior.


So here we are, away at Sale, with a backline thatís had no premiership rugby exposure this season. And itís all because management are under pressure and hence have made conservative selections.

 
Saint Wilf
Re: Teams up
Saint Wilf (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 15:00
I deduce Ken Pisi is injured?
*

 
northampton_lad
Re: Teams up
northampton_lad (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 15:13
I am happy with the selection, if we're being honest we're not going to win anything this year or get relegated. Lets play the hungry players, at least the experience will be worthwhile even if it comes to us losing.

 
Viggo
Re: Teams up
Viggo (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 15:18
I might be wrong but i think we have 7 players that have come through our academy in the starting 15, i am all for that and some are local boys too !

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Teams up
Pyffy (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 15:27
That back line has been doing well for the Wandies this season and scoring plenty of tries so won't be lacking in confidence. Both Stephenson and Hutch aren't afraid to make their tackles so we shouldn't be lacking in defence through the middle either, and with JPE and Fodes on the wings we can hope they can get on the end of one of Harry's offloads.

The forwards need a big game, they need to hit the breakdown hard and provide quick clean ball for Corbus and Grase Jr to get that back line moving. The scrum needs to be solid and not retreating as that will spell yet another disaster like the car crash we witnessed last week. If we can at least gain parity we stand a good chance of sneaking a win. COYS!!



Proud member of the Saints Season Ticket Holder Happy Clapper Club since 2006.(Sm152)(Sm152)(Sm152)

 
Eif Jones
Re: Teams up
Eif Jones (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 15:48
defence, defence, defence.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Teams up
Pyffy (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 16:04
Quote:
Eif Jones
defence, defence, defence.

Agreed Eif, shut them out and shut them out hard.



Proud member of the Saints Season Ticket Holder Happy Clapper Club since 2006.(Sm152)(Sm152)(Sm152)

 
Deesaint
Re: Teams up
Deesaint (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 16:15
Because the backs are fairly inexperienced wouldnít it have been worth considering Nutley wh is probably the best linking flanker we have
Iím also not sure about big Sam at lock
Would have preferred giving Moon a start with Eadie at 8 then Sam on bench covering both positions

Wouldnít it be fantastic if they won
I really hope they can pull it off
Would set down some serious challenges to the established players and team selection
COYS

 
Saintsman94
Re: Teams up
Saintsman94 (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 17:04
I still feel that back row is very unbalanced, Gibson 6, T 7 and Eadie 8 would be my preferred choice. Any news on when Ludlam should be back?

I agree with HLTW, Grayson should have been starting in the anglo-welsh, this feels less like taking an opportunity to blood a youngster and more like a knee jerk reaction to last weeks result.

I think Grayson has lots of potential but he's needed more game time, I also feel that playing alongside a more settled (and in my opinion better) scrum half in Groom would have been beneficial.

Seemed strange to me last week to play Dickinson at lock when Onojaife was starting for Bedford, why not give the lad a call back and give him some more exposure to the premiership, surely that's the point of keeping players on your books and loaning them out? (I notice that he's not playing for the blues tonight, so maybe he picked up an injury last week, I just thought it was worth noting)

I'm excited to see some of these younger lads playing this week, I just wish it were through better circumstances that they had been picked.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Teams up
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 17:20
Quote:
Saintsman94
I still feel that back row is very unbalanced, Gibson 6, T 7 and Eadie 8 would be my preferred choice. Any news on when Ludlam should be back?
I agree with HLTW, Grayson should have been starting in the anglo-welsh, this feels less like taking an opportunity to blood a youngster and more like a knee jerk reaction to last weeks result.

I think Grayson has lots of potential but he's needed more game time, I also feel that playing alongside a more settled (and in my opinion better) scrum half in Groom would have been beneficial.

Seemed strange to me last week to play Dickinson at lock when Onojaife was starting for Bedford, why not give the lad a call back and give him some more exposure to the premiership, surely that's the point of keeping players on your books and loaning them out? (I notice that he's not playing for the blues tonight, so maybe he picked up an injury last week, I just thought it was worth noting)

I'm excited to see some of these younger lads playing this week, I just wish it were through better circumstances that they had been picked.


summarised it better than me! Bravo....

 
andysaint
Re: Teams up
andysaint (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 17:37
HLTW, re: Biggar, Francis and Grayson for next season, we are playing our 4th 10 already and we are not even into December yet so I think having cover is not such a bad thing. We may see Francis more at 12 so Biggar and Grayson can compete for the 10 shirt. Biggar cannot play all games and may be away with Wales, Francis with England so there will be plenty of opportunities I think for James.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Teams up
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 17:45
Quote:
andysaint
HLTW, re: Biggar, Francis and Grayson for next season, we are playing our 4th 10 already and we are not even into December yet so I think having cover is not such a bad thing. We may see Francis more at 12 so Biggar and Grayson can compete for the 10 shirt. Biggar cannot play all games and may be away with Wales, Francis with England so there will be plenty of opportunities I think for James.


Itís about wage cap allocation. We arenít a rich club. We donít need to be splashing 700k (if true) on a 10 whose priorities are international. There are 7 or 8 kiwis at half the price who would play every game and be absolutely fine.

No doubt heís a good player, good bloke and will do well. Itís being smart with the resources, donít anyone complain about money if thatís how we spend it.

I know people who have spent quite a bit of time with him, meant to be a really top man. So my real hope is that he doesnít take any nonsense from poor coaching, morale etc. If people like him, Horne and Brussouw can stand up and change the culture then happy days. But itís starting to feel like we need a World XV for this setup to be able to win anything.... the squad will be plenty strong enough to win the Prem next year (especially with couple of props).

 
saintgunny
Re: Teams up
saintgunny (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 18:48
Just like at Tigs away 2 seasons ago if i recall - youngsters played a blinder and scared them half to death!

 
SaintsAsh
Re: Teams up
SaintsAsh (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 20:14

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Teams up
Chris Hoddle (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 20:16
Earlier this year I was at Sale U18 vs Saints U18 taking Photos for the Saints.

James Grayson played in that game. Although he scored a try and played reasonably well the Saints were well beaten.

He certainly has potential and I hope he does well, but am a bit worried myself.



http://chrishoddle.smugmug.com/photos/i-TsCHdzK/0/M/i-TsCHdzK-M.gif


[url=https:[www.justgiving.com], Please sponsor me here[/url]

 
fleetg
Re: Teams up
fleetg (IP Logged)
24 November, 2017 20:58
Sam Dickinson at lock again ; some gamble Jim !!!!!!

 
St.Sinner
Re: Teams up
St.Sinner (IP Logged)
25 November, 2017 08:26
I am excited to see the youngsters in the team, I agree with others they could have been integrated slightly better into the team during the season.
But at least they get a chance now! I really hope Grayson has a great game and is looked after by the forwards.
If we can compete up front and not capitulate early on & ruin our confidence, I think we can have a good go at them today, even if we lose, if we play our socks off and the youngsters put in a good showing, il be happier than I was last weekend. Only way is up! COYS.


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