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Hollywood JK
We’re all in denial!
Hollywood JK (IP Logged)
01 December, 2017 22:26
You, me, the coaches, the players and most definitely our board...

Watching the game tonight. During a time off delay, it suddenly dawned on me that our style of play has simply not evolved since we won the Premiership, and that’s the real problem. Our coaches have no idea how to adapt and coach differently...

Example in point tonight:-

Why o why did the team not spread the ball wide when Falcons were down to 14 men, surely they must practice increasing the tempo, and passing the ball wide when they have a man advantage! No, instead the forwards keep the ball instead of trusting our backs..

You only have to look at our forwards, bash and smash, but rarely do they off load, very little skill..

Our backs rarely do they play wide or put a move together that goes through the line resulting in a try.

There is not a chance we will reach our top four target this season, probably not Europe as well!

When will there finally be some accountability at the Saints??? When will someone be brave enough to say we could sign this coaching set up for the next hundred years, and not win anything??

We desperately need a fresh start, a new beginnng to build again and start playing an attractive dynamic brand of Rugby. I want to be entertaned again at the Gardens!!

 
fleetg
Re: We’re all in denial!
fleetg (IP Logged)
01 December, 2017 22:31
There are plenty of us who are not in denial .... we realised what you are stating a couple of years ago. Great teams strengthen from a position of strength. When we won the Prem, we looked like a bunch who had achieved a lifes ambition so nothing else to achieve. Look how hungry Sarries continuously are or Tigs in their pomp : different mindset !

 
Saint Ted
Re: We’re all in denial!
Saint Ted (IP Logged)
01 December, 2017 22:32
Pretty sure that's what we've been saying for the best part of three years!

 
ch saint
Re: We’re all in denial!
ch saint (IP Logged)
01 December, 2017 22:35
Yes we were

 
Hollywood JK
Re: We’re all in denial!
Hollywood JK (IP Logged)
01 December, 2017 22:39
Vert true fleetg, Sarries are a great example of a coaching evolution..

 
Big daddy 3
Re: We’re all in denial!
Big daddy 3 (IP Logged)
01 December, 2017 22:39
Couldn’t agree more pure and simple no ambition or ideas off or on the pitch Hartley and Lawes the exemption

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: We’re all in denial!
Robby Richmond (IP Logged)
01 December, 2017 22:53
Why are Hartley & Lawes the exemption?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: We’re all in denial!
Chris Hoddle (IP Logged)
01 December, 2017 22:59
Just asking but what is it that you want the board to do?
Sack the coaches costing several hundreds of thousands?
To be replaced by?
That are going to achieve by the end of the season?
So with the £600000 loan and the coach pay off we start with minus £1.5 m? Are you all chipping in?

We were all shouting and singing a bonus point try till rules out
It’s not good but has been much worse

Mind you the email about a special Christmas present dining at the saints for £100+ is a bit off



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2017 23:02 by Chris Hoddle.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: We’re all in denial!
Saint Dom (IP Logged)
01 December, 2017 23:03
Well said, Chris.

As ever, it’s a game of fine margins and confidence.

Things are not running our way at the moment, but that will change.

Let’s just talk about the cricket for a bit?

(Sm100)



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*I could agree with you - but then we'd both be wrong...*

 
Hymenoptera
Re: We’re all in denial!
Hymenoptera (IP Logged)
01 December, 2017 23:06
Depends if you were to miss out on Europe..there's your coaches pay off.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: We’re all in denial!
Saint Dom (IP Logged)
01 December, 2017 23:21
Ah, Europe.
Brexit...?

Now there’s a discussion that will introduce even more rancour.



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*I could agree with you - but then we'd both be wrong...*

 
fleetg
Re: We’re all in denial!
fleetg (IP Logged)
01 December, 2017 23:30
From both sides I assume !

 
Hollywood JK
Re: We’re all in denial!
Hollywood JK (IP Logged)
01 December, 2017 23:36
That’s my point St Dom, it won’t change. You’ve been saying that for 3 years....

Chris, if your only rationale for no change is about money, then we are knackered! Your philosophy would suggest even if we get relegated we stick with the current coaching set up....

Here’s an idea, perhaps with an exciting brand of rugby we could sell out the 15,500 stadium, which we’ve not managed to do nice since we extended it, and was almost empty this evening... That would help offset any pay out. Or maybe an honorable man would fall on his sword so the club didn’t have to deal with a pay off!!

 
Eif Jones
Re: We’re all in denial!
Eif Jones (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 00:28
The more serious recruitment window opens in a month, surely you would want the new DOR to supervise that period. Failing that, next season's DOR will need much of the season to evaluate, so next season could also be a struggle. We missed out on the SA who took over at Gloucester, who brought his son, a talented no 8, along with him, a position that needs strengthening here.

 
St.Sinner
Re: We’re all in denial!
St.Sinner (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 08:27
Why ask "what is it you want the board to do?"

If I'm honest I don't know, that's the reason I'm not in charge of the goings on of a professional sports team. But they are, and they're in charge of the decisions. So unless they want us to keep getting worse, keep losing bums on seats, lose our better players, lose any attractiveness for potential new signings. Then they must do something, which I'll leave to their educated and knowledgeable selves.

I like Jim , and I think with new coaches around him and new ideas to be embraced, he has a place in the future of our club! But more importantly of all, no one is bigger than the club, and in a time where rugby is changing so much , we cannot afford to be left behind.

Big clubs in football dissapeared over the years, there's no reason as professionalism continues, the same wont happen to us. If Irish go down this year, and Bristol come up, with the way Worcester are playing now they have their full team fit, and Newcastle keep building. We genuinely would be relegation candidates. Can we recover from it once again?

No BT TV money, smaller attendances, financially a disaster.
What if the premiership gets ring fenced?

As sad as it is, we are in a decline, with periods of treading water via a few wins here and there. It's frustrating to watch and sad times for everyone involved with the club.

We are moaning but only because we care about our club. We need a plan and fast.

 
rugbymel
Re: We’re all in denial!
rugbymel (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 08:48
£x = cost of paying off Jim and/or Dorian.

£y = cost of (falling attendances) + (further drop in ST sales) + (no European ko matches) + (not qualifying for Champions Cup in 18/19) + (sponsorship associated with all these) +..........

It’s the job of the board to decide when £y > £x.

 
andysaint
Re: We’re all in denial!
andysaint (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 09:05
For me, looking at last nights team and performance, I think 9 of those players do not possess the quality required, at this time to be in the starting 15 if we need to improve. That’s the reality.

 
Brackleysaint
Re: We’re all in denial!
Brackleysaint (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 09:11
Quote:
Chris Hoddle
Just asking but what is it that you want the board to do?
Sack the coaches costing several hundreds of thousands?
To be replaced by?
That are going to achieve by the end of the season?
So with the £600000 loan and the coach pay off we start with minus £1.5 m? Are you all chipping in?

We were all shouting and singing a bonus point try till rules out
It’s not good but has been much worse

Mind you the email about a special Christmas present dining at the saints for £100+ is a bit off

To remove the current DOR and his assistant without having a successor in place at this stage of the season would definitely he suicide, but that does not mean that change can not happen.

In answer to some of your questions.

1) The CEO should be in touch with rugby agents & management companies to find who is immediately available and suitable.
2) No, change their job description and responsibilities all possible under current employment law and will be more cost effective to pay an additional salary for another coach than paying the existing contracts off.
3) Should be resolved through question 1.
4) Premiership survival.
5) Even with parachute payments, losses through relegation will be far greater than implementing question 2.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2017 09:14 by Brackleysaint.

 
Christoff
Re: We’re all in denial!
smitferbrainz (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 09:14
Look if we keep going like this then top 4 is a pipe dream. This is going to be a relegation battle most likely. All this "it's not running our way at the moment" stuff? Who makes it "run our way"? Luck?

 
Adi Nako
Re: We’re all in denial!
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 09:50
You guys didnt learn from our (Quins) mistakes. We won the league, decided that our team and coaching staff was excellent and made virtually no changes. We started the next season strongly but it tailed off and we've been getting steadily worse since. Now we are a midtable side at best. You can't stand still in professional sport.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: We’re all in denial!
Robby Richmond (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 09:53
Unsurprisingly Adi, that's what many of us have been saying since we won the league but we were all shouted down. Now here we are.

 
tedge
Re: We’re all in denial!
tedge (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 10:00
When Glaws appointed Ackerman as Head Coach they didn't sack Humphries as DoR but moved him upstairs. No doubt he's had to give up direct involvement in coaching and team selection but the set-up seems to work. I see no reason why Saints can't follow the same pattern, provided they can find the right head coach which would be near impossible mid-season.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: We’re all in denial!
Stockers (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 10:23
1. Watch the video of Scotland v Australia.

2. Consider what went well.

3. Create a game plan.

4. Apply to game.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: We’re all in denial!
Robby Richmond (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 10:28
Yes Tedge, look again shouted down for years but the same problem remains. We are told we're waiting until the end of the season to finally 'lance the boil'. The idea we'll let Jim leave or give him the boot still seem patently laughable to me. He'll get promoted up to the board, it's obvious we need more rugby nous & experience there.

The issue remains, money. Chris is right, it's not going to be cheap. Chris is also right, we can all throw names around but actually getting them here is another problem, as we saw this time last year. But Brackley is also right, we're going to lose money either way, how much is up to the board.

Alan Sollomons went on an 8 game losing streak, lost his job & was replaced by senior players who were, respectfully, novice coaches. If we were to find ourselves in a similar situation it would most likely do more harm than good.

With Sollomons it seemed as though the only people who the board would listen to is the senior players with chairman's ear. This does not appear to be the case when it comes to 'lancing the boil'. Times change it seems, problems don't.

 
incastrowetrust
Re: We’re all in denial!
Ayerza wannabe (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 14:48
Quote:
tedge
When Glaws appointed Ackerman as Head Coach they didn't sack Humphries as DoR but moved him upstairs. No doubt he's had to give up direct involvement in coaching and team selection but the set-up seems to work. I see no reason why Saints can't follow the same pattern, provided they can find the right head coach which would be near impossible mid-season.

Humphreys is still DOR, Fisher was the head coach and he was sacked/walked.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2017 14:49 by Ayerza wannabe.

 
tedge
Re: We’re all in denial!
tedge (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 16:51
Quote:
Ayerza wannabe
Quote:
tedge
When Glaws appointed Ackerman as Head Coach they didn't sack Humphries as DoR but moved him upstairs. No doubt he's had to give up direct involvement in coaching and team selection but the set-up seems to work. I see no reason why Saints can't follow the same pattern, provided they can find the right head coach which would be near impossible mid-season.

Humphreys is still DOR, Fisher was the head coach and he was sacked/walked.

I know he is still DoR - that's what I meant - moving him "upstairs" with the same title but no day to day team responsibilities. So he (or the board) brought in Ackerman to run the team but retained Humphries for his experience and knowledge. No reason Saints couldn't do the same if they are reluctant to lose Mallinder's experience


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