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Saintalex
Players contracts up at the end of the season
Saintalex (IP Logged)
06 December, 2017 20:36
So which players contracts are up? Which players you would be happy to re sign and which players you would be happy if they moved on?

Foden
Lawes
North we already know
Brookes
Myler
Wood???? Is his contract up?
Waller and Mickey and have both recently signed

 
Duckonstilts
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
Duckonstilts (IP Logged)
06 December, 2017 20:46
Lawes needs to stay obviously.

 
Waggydog
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
Waggydog (IP Logged)
06 December, 2017 20:47
I think I'd have a minor breakdown if Courts goes elsewhere.

 
TringSaint
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
TringSaint (IP Logged)
06 December, 2017 21:19
interesting to see that george is being lined up by the dragons! not sure if that is going to further his development.

not dismissing any club, but to potentially end up with the worst of the 4 welsh regions is hardly what i would have expected for this seemingly world class player
i think that george's candle is not burning very brightly at the mo.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
Robby Richmond (IP Logged)
06 December, 2017 21:28
Courts & fodes signed a new deal.
Hilly, Daisy, Smyler, big Sam, Woody, Nutters, Brookes
Brookes was talking to Wasps and Sale...

 
Former Hollywood Saint
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
06 December, 2017 21:30
You guys got me worried there for a second. I thought Courts had signed an extension but you made panic for a sec there.


FHS

 
Saintalex
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
Saintalex (IP Logged)
06 December, 2017 21:32
Brooke’s is a weird one, when he cane here in his first half a season, he was the best Tighthead in the Premiership, picks up an injury and has tonke lost his mojo. If he was to go, would no doubt under a new coach probably push on and become the player he was. He probably has to leave for that to happen. He isn’t doing it here. Probably down to the coaching.

 
Waggydog
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
Waggydog (IP Logged)
06 December, 2017 22:14
The last reference I can see to Courts signing a contract are news articles in 2014. Have things changed recently that I've missed?

 
Saintalex
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
Saintalex (IP Logged)
06 December, 2017 22:25
I didn’t think he had signed I can’t see him leaving this time round though

 
Eif Jones
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
Eif Jones (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 00:49
Tring, wait developments before being to judgemental. Dragons have a healthy number of good young players, all they need is a sprinkling of experience to become more competitive. Anybody who watched their draw against a strong Ulster will have noted their potential. They are owned by the WRU, so watch out for more signings, although they will still have to remain within the salary cap.

All the regions bar the Scarlets are interested in North, for me the move back to Wales must kick start his rugby after a very stagnant period here at Saints, something needs to happen else he won't get back into the Wales team.

 
edwigg
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
edwigg (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 04:38
Brooke’s has to go to save his career.
He has gone backwards since his arrival which is all down to coaching......or lack of.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 06:54
Don’t agree. Sure there have been coaching issues but not all of player development is down to coaching.... quite a lot depends on player desire, ambition, work ethic etc

 
Lamont4Saints
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
Lamont4Saints (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 07:02
Brookes failed to keep from at Newcastle and tigers. He’s never been a player to keep from, he’s always gone hot and cold.

Oh and he needs to not be so lazy round the pitch. He walks round like it’s a mindlands 3 team!

 
andysaint
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
andysaint (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 07:31
Brookes has been at Newcastle then Tigers then Doncaster then Newcastle then us. For a lad who is only 27 that is too many moves. Sadly from watching his play, I can see why. He’s turning out to be another Doran Jones.

 
Lamont4Saints
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
Lamont4Saints (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 07:41
Quote:
andysaint
Brookes has been at Newcastle then Tigers then Doncaster then Newcastle then us. For a lad who is only 27 that is too many moves. Sadly from watching his play, I can see why. He’s turning out to be another Doran Jones.

You know I never got Dorian Jones, looked fantastic when he came on the scene. A few really good England caps but then just stopped doing anything on the pitch. I wonder what happened on his head.

 
tboullem
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
Mobbs (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 08:41
No need for Lawes to go anywhere, his heart is in the club, he is playing the best rugby of his life for Saints and England. He has Lions caps and silverware in his pocket and I have no doubt he would ideally like to stay at the Gardens in the same manner as Dylan. Once his International days are over then a couple of years boosting the pension would be understandable.

As far as North is concerned, a move to Newport would simply enhance my view that he uses club rugby to keep match fit for Wales which has always been his priority. Still sad to see him go however.

 
jimmies
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
jimmies (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 09:07
The problem is with Courts - he IS in the prime of his skills/career, If you were looking at this from a "what's going to be best for my legacy" point of view, it would be hard to argue against a move away to a club more likely to trophies.

IF you were him, would you stay if you had possibly better alternatives???

To be clear, I absolutely do not want him to go anywhere !

 
SaintsAsh
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
SaintsAsh (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 09:42
Regarding brookes, I do not think it is coaching. He was playing well when Eddie took over the England job. But Eddie did not select him, Eddie is always saying you have to work hard to get into the England team.

 
andysaint
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
andysaint (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 10:02
Did Eddie convince May to move clubs to help further his England career? I know that May and Lawes are at different stages of their career

 
Whiston Saint
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
Whiston Saint (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 10:31
Quote:
jimmies
The problem is with Courts - he IS in the prime of his skills/career, If you were looking at this from a "what's going to be best for my legacy" point of view, it would be hard to argue against a move away to a club more likely to trophies.
IF you were him, would you stay if you had possibly better alternatives???

To be clear, I absolutely do not want him to go anywhere !

He is very much a local and playing for Saints has not hindered his England career. Why would he move unless Saints refuse to pay him what he is worth.

 
TringSaint
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
TringSaint (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 11:13
Quote:
Eif Jones
Tring, wait developments before being to judgemental. Dragons have a healthy number of good young players, all they need is a sprinkling of experience to become more competitive. Anybody who watched their draw against a strong Ulster will have noted their potential. They are owned by the WRU, so watch out for more signings, although they will still have to remain within the salary cap.
All the regions bar the Scarlets are interested in North, for me the move back to Wales must kick start his rugby after a very stagnant period here at Saints, something needs to happen else he won't get back into the Wales team.

TBH, i wouldnt pick north for wales at the moment anyway. he is a glory hound - doesnt want to get stuck-in for risk of injury and as a result his work rate is poor compared with other wingers - just compare him with Daly or Ashton - chalk and cheese.

If George ever wants to achieve what his ability will enable him to, he has to stop lingering out on the wing waiting for a perfect pass, one-on-one with as defender and about 10m out from their line. If he carries on as he is he will soon be wales' 4th or 5th choice winger - maybe even behind Cuthbert!! (never thought i woukld say that!!)

 
tedge
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
tedge (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 12:34
Quote:
TringSaint
TBH, i wouldnt pick north for wales at the moment anyway. he is a glory hound - doesnt want to get stuck-in for risk of injury and as a result his work rate is poor compared with other wingers - just compare him with Daly or Ashton - chalk and cheese.


Not accurate and not fair

 
SaintsMan87
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
SaintsMan87 (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 12:55
I think we maybe in a place where both tightheads go. By all means Paul hill is fed up. Not enough game time and he’s so far down the pecking order eddie no longer contacts him.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
Matthew (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 13:10
Given where we are as a club, arguably the question is as much about who wants to stay at Saints as who we want to stay. This may put us in a position where we keep players we don't want to keep because the players we want to keep want out and the players we want to bring in don't want to come. A few seasons back when there was a happy feel around the Gardens, this won't have been an issue.



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jimmies
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
jimmies (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 15:27
Quote:
Whiston Saint
Quote:
jimmies
The problem is with Courts - he IS in the prime of his skills/career, If you were looking at this from a "what's going to be best for my legacy" point of view, it would be hard to argue against a move away to a club more likely to trophies.
IF you were him, would you stay if you had possibly better alternatives???

To be clear, I absolutely do not want him to go anywhere !

He is very much a local and playing for Saints has not hindered his England career. Why would he move unless Saints refuse to pay him what he is worth.

Whilst I hope you are right Whiston Saint....the thing is I'm sure Courts cares about winning Club games as well as Country games.....plus can we pay him what he is worth/wants AND provide the competitive Club that I'm sure he desires to be apart of?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
Saint.Kenneth (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 17:18
If Courtney wants to win trophies in his sporting career, staying at Saints could be detrimental to that.

Put it another way..... when Courtney's contract comes to an end, it'll probably be easier to count the top European clubs not interested.

He may be a northampton lad born and bred but success on the pitch is a massive lure for a sportsman.

 
tigerburnie
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
tigerburnie (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 17:35
Courtney doesn't have to move far if he wants success........................lol(Brookes just doesn't seem to have it does he?)

 
Lamont4Saints
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
Lamont4Saints (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 18:05
Quote:
tedge
Quote:
TringSaint
TBH, i wouldnt pick north for wales at the moment anyway. he is a glory hound - doesnt want to get stuck-in for risk of injury and as a result his work rate is poor compared with other wingers - just compare him with Daly or Ashton - chalk and cheese.


Not accurate and not fair


I think it is pretty accurate. His work rate is well below par.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
SaintMaul (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 22:41
I couldn't fault Courtney if he moved club seeking more honours.

However despite our woes my guess is he will choose to stay.

It may just be wishful thinking. However, he is a local lad with family nearby and a young family. He is being picked for England irrespective of how Saints are doing. He has fewer big collision games given we are not in the mix for top 4 or knockout stages. He has already won a fair amount of silverware at club level.

Players like Itoje and Billy Vunipola may get more club honours but the batterings and number of big club games they play at club level has seen them out injured a lot for internationals.

 
Walks11
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
Walks11 (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 22:56
Quote:
Lamont4Saints
Quote:
tedge
Quote:
TringSaint
TBH, i wouldnt pick north for wales at the moment anyway. he is a glory hound - doesnt want to get stuck-in for risk of injury and as a result his work rate is poor compared with other wingers - just compare him with Daly or Ashton - chalk and cheese.


Not accurate and not fair


I think it is pretty accurate. His work rate is well below par.

The bit about risking injury is.

Not many wingers have Ashton’s work rate and most can defend better than him. Daly is also a centre playing on the wing so that is a different mindset to an out and out winger.

 
Saintalex
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
Saintalex (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 23:00
I would still have North over CASHton every day if the week.

 
TringSaint
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
TringSaint (IP Logged)
08 December, 2017 06:55
I wouldn’t. Compare strike rates.
You might not like Chris for following the money (although not as badly as picamoles did, and he is still called king Louis by many despite dropping us in the mire) but he was damn effective and brought us a lot of points.

Ashton 475 points from 110 games, North 175 from 80.

I think that answers itself.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
SaintMaul (IP Logged)
08 December, 2017 07:49
Ashton's too try scorer in the Top 14

 
Deesaint
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
Deesaint (IP Logged)
08 December, 2017 08:12
If you put youself in Courtney's shoes.
Young family
Limited time to earn decent money
Want to win trophies.
Want to be part of a successful side.

Then Sarries come knocking with one hell of a package.
Big money.
Three year deal.
Great security
No need to move home
Playing with England colleagues (Eddie would be happy)

What would you do?

I'd be shopping for a camel.

 
Saintalex
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
Saintalex (IP Logged)
08 December, 2017 10:07
Quote:
TringSaint
I wouldn’t. Compare strike rates.
You might not like Chris for following the money (although not as badly as picamoles did, and he is still called king Louis by many despite dropping us in the mire) but he was damn effective and brought us a lot of points.

Ashton 475 points from 110 games, North 175 from 80.

I think that answers itself.

CASHton spent a season in the championship and scored 35 try’s in his first year

 
LeicesterSaint
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
LeicesterSaint (IP Logged)
08 December, 2017 10:25
Although I don't follow the argument necessarily that more points equals the better player - take out those 35 tries (175 points) and thirty games and you get the same number of games and 300 points vs 175.

Having said that it is still a far from fair comparison as generally speaking Ashton was probably playing in a more attacking free flowing Saints side and almost certainly behind a more dominant pack.

Unless we can pick up the likes of Nadolo then most wingers are likely to look average at best at present for us. For me we stick with the talent we've got already and focus on getting them some ball!

 
TringSaint
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
TringSaint (IP Logged)
08 December, 2017 11:20
Quote:
LeicesterSaint
Although I don't follow the argument necessarily that more points equals the better player - take out those 35 tries (175 points) and thirty games and you get the same number of games and 300 points vs 175.
Having said that it is still a far from fair comparison as generally speaking Ashton was probably playing in a more attacking free flowing Saints side and almost certainly behind a more dominant pack.

Unless we can pick up the likes of Nadolo then most wingers are likely to look average at best at present for us. For me we stick with the talent we've got already and focus on getting them some ball!

That is a good point - we were probably more dominant in the scrum and had a different style of play - but how much of that is also down to the individual? Ashton would regularly rock up in mid field, running lines off myler and carving his way to the line. His positional play was exemplary when in attack and i think that is a good chunk of why he was so deadly in attack.

North doesnt do this for us or for wales - he sits on his wing and waits for the ball. Compare him to the new NZ wing Rieko Ioane - well, actually there is no comparison tbh - Ione was all over the field and made and scored some great tries because he put himself into the right places.

Dont get me wrong, i think that George can be an awesome player and did show glimpses of this when he first joined, but that player is not the one we now have. I do hope he finds his form, as it would be such a huge waste of a massive talent if he continues as he is.

 
Casual Saint
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
Casual Saint (IP Logged)
08 December, 2017 15:26
Unfortunately North was so effective when he first came on the scene, especially on his first Lions tour, that is was easy to assume that you just had to get the ball to him and he would do something amazing. This was still the case when he joined Saints but it did not take the other clubs long to figure out if you slowed down the service you could make him ineffective.

Between him and the coaching there was a failure to come up with a plan B - either getting the ball to him when he has time or space or developing his game sense so he became more involved in the game. Sadly he has become one dimensional which is a shame considering his potential. Hopefully a move to a new club will help him to fulfill his potential.



Once a scrum half .... always a scrum half

 
TringSaint
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
TringSaint (IP Logged)
08 December, 2017 15:40
Absolutely. I think someone needs to light a fire under him to get him back to his best.

 
fair_weather_fan
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
fair_weather_fan (IP Logged)
08 December, 2017 17:55
One thing that was different between North and Ashton was that Ashton had an almost telepathic understanding with Ben Foden.

AS soon as North replaced Ashton, that source of run-back tries dried up. I have waited three seasons for the coaches to notice there was a problem. Its possible that North and Fodes don't like each other??

I also concluded that the Fodes-Ashton was something that they developed playing together and there was no coaching input to it - if there had been, they would have got North to play in a similar way.

 
Scrummy
Re: Players contracts up at the end of the season
Scrummy (IP Logged)
08 December, 2017 22:55
We have spent three years watching our full backs running the ball back, getting tackled, and George North rucking over like an extra number 7.
Just give him the ball and follow him for the offload. It really is that simple.


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