rugbyunion
Latest News:

The Unofficial Northampton Saints Supporters' Message Board




ancient mariner
Why Jim had to go
ancient mariner (IP Logged)
20 December, 2017 17:59
According to the Rugby Paper

Some interesting insights re the relationship with the squad and loyalty to DW



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20/12/2017 17:59 by ancient mariner.

 
andysaint
Re: Why Jim had to go
andysaint (IP Logged)
20 December, 2017 18:04
The warning signs were there but not heeded. Even from Jim who would have done the required even just to keep his job?

 
SuffolkSaint
Re: Why Jim had to go
SuffolkSaint (IP Logged)
20 December, 2017 18:13
I wonder what member of Mallinders coaching staff rejected Matfields input out of hand.... hmmmmmm

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Why Jim had to go
SaintMaul (IP Logged)
20 December, 2017 19:54
Thanks for posting Ancient Mariner.

Respect to Keith for not shying away from taking responsibility.

Respect to Jim for sticking to his principles of loyalty. He must have known it would cost him his job.

The need to take action makes more sense now.

 
Longers
Re: Why Jim had to go
Longers (IP Logged)
21 December, 2017 07:07
Quote:
SaintMaul
Thanks for posting Ancient Mariner.
Respect to Keith for not shying away from taking responsibility.

Respect to Jim for sticking to his principles of loyalty. He must have known it would cost him his job.

The need to take action makes more sense now.

Mmm, once again SaintMaul we disagree....are we fated to always be thus?

Who commands the greater loyalty? The friend or the paymaster? One colleague or another?

He let down a large number of people in the squad. He let down a great number of people in the stands. And he let down the club. All through misplaced loyalty.

How much do you need?

 
SaintsAsh
Re: Why Jim had to go
SaintsAsh (IP Logged)
21 December, 2017 08:04
Quote:
Longers
Quote:
SaintMaul
Thanks for posting Ancient Mariner.
Respect to Keith for not shying away from taking responsibility.

Respect to Jim for sticking to his principles of loyalty. He must have known it would cost him his job.

The need to take action makes more sense now.

Mmm, once again SaintMaul we disagree....are we fated to always be thus?

Who commands the greater loyalty? The friend or the paymaster? One colleague or another?

He let down a large number of people in the squad. He let down a great number of people in the stands. And he let down the club. All through misplaced loyalty.

How much do you need?

I disagree, he looked after his coaches by saying let it be me. That for me shows a man with great integrity, fair play to him. The players are saying that he still had the dressing room. Sometimes the dynamic changes and you try too much to get it back, yes a mistake but as a man the guy showed integrity, ill never knock him for that.

 
headman
Re: Why Jim had to go
headman (IP Logged)
21 December, 2017 08:32
The suggestion from Mr. Newman that team members do not go out socially together is not accurate. Daisy's testimonial events so far this year are proof of this

 
GOD
Re: Why Jim had to go
Bob Stainsby (IP Logged)
21 December, 2017 09:20
St Maul, not wishing to intercede in a difference of opinion twixt yourself and Longers. But with the greatest respect for Jim and his terrific past record at Saints his loyalty over the past 24+ months has been a large contributory factor as to where we are now. And yet and yet the boil/elephant/insert your own euphemism is still there? tick,tock,tick,tock. There are too many direct quotes and information like the linked articel above now out in the open for us to call said stories 'rumour'. Another word for loyalty could be sentiment? and we have all heard there is no sentiment in business especially one as competitive as pro sport.

 
Stevie Myler's right boot
Re: Why Jim had to go
21 December, 2017 09:59
Abdicated his responsibilities is where I would put it

 
Longers
Re: Why Jim had to go
Longers (IP Logged)
21 December, 2017 11:40
Quote:
SaintsAsh
Quote:
Longers
Quote:
SaintMaul
Thanks for posting Ancient Mariner.
Respect to Keith for not shying away from taking responsibility.

Respect to Jim for sticking to his principles of loyalty. He must have known it would cost him his job.

The need to take action makes more sense now.

Mmm, once again SaintMaul we disagree....are we fated to always be thus?

Who commands the greater loyalty? The friend or the paymaster? One colleague or another?

He let down a large number of people in the squad. He let down a great number of people in the stands. And he let down the club. All through misplaced loyalty.

How much do you need?

I disagree, he looked after his coaches by saying let it be me. That for me shows a man with great integrity, fair play to him. The players are saying that he still had the dressing room. Sometimes the dynamic changes and you try too much to get it back, yes a mistake but as a man the guy showed integrity, ill never knock him for that.


I hope my comment does not get interpreted as a dig at his integrity. It is not meant to be. But what value does that integrity carry, if all around is lost?

Jim got lost between his integrity and loyalty, unfortunately those who may have been advising him where to find direction, were not listened to or were ignored. Consequently the team find themselves where they are and someone else had to make the decisions.

 
GOD
Re: Why Jim had to go
Bob Stainsby (IP Logged)
21 December, 2017 12:24
Quote:
headmam
The suggestion from Mr. Newman that team members do not go out socially together is not accurate. Daisy's testimonial events so far, this year are proof of this
Can't necessarily dispute Lennie’s claim from that. After all it is Daisy's testimonial = 3-line whip plus I would imagine he is a popular guy. I think Lennie is referring to 'wanting' to socialise and team building events.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Why Jim had to go
SaintMaul (IP Logged)
21 December, 2017 14:52
Quote:
Longers
Quote:
SaintsAsh
Quote:
Longers
Quote:
SaintMaul
Thanks for posting Ancient Mariner.
Respect to Keith for not shying away from taking responsibility.

Respect to Jim for sticking to his principles of loyalty. He must have known it would cost him his job.

The need to take action makes more sense now.

Mmm, once again SaintMaul we disagree....are we fated to always be thus?

Who commands the greater loyalty? The friend or the paymaster? One colleague or another?

He let down a large number of people in the squad. He let down a great number of people in the stands. And he let down the club. All through misplaced loyalty.

How much do you need?

I disagree, he looked after his coaches by saying let it be me. That for me shows a man with great integrity, fair play to him. The players are saying that he still had the dressing room. Sometimes the dynamic changes and you try too much to get it back, yes a mistake but as a man the guy showed integrity, ill never knock him for that.


I hope my comment does not get interpreted as a dig at his integrity. It is not meant to be. But what value does that integrity carry, if all around is lost?

Jim got lost between his integrity and loyalty, unfortunately those who may have been advising him where to find direction, were not listened to or were ignored. Consequently the team find themselves where they are and someone else had to make the decisions.

I hear the point that Jim could have been misguided ignoring the mounting evidence about Dorian. Obstinate even. But that doesn't stop me admiring Jim for his loyalty. He didn't sacrifice his close friend who helped him achieve so much success when plenty of people would have to save their own skin. Jim left with his head held high saying I'm not going to stab Dorian in the back. But equally I get people's frustration that Jim didn't jettison Dorian.

I'm sure Longers there will be plenty we will both agree and disagree upon as Saints look to rebuild. But it would be a dull world and message board if everyone agreed all the time! From memory I think we've both always agreed to disagree repsctfully.

 
ElySaint
Re: Why Jim had to go
ElySaint (IP Logged)
21 December, 2017 15:13
Quote:
Stevie Myler's right boot
Abdicated his responsibilities is where I would put it

I kind of agree with this. By sacrificing his own position as DOR Jim has left the elephant in the room for someone else to sort out when he could / should have dealt with it some time ago. Just a thought.

 
riverlodge
Re: Why Jim had to go
riverlodge (IP Logged)
21 December, 2017 15:27
Quote:
SaintMaul
Thanks for posting Ancient Mariner.
Respect to Keith for not shying away from taking responsibility.

Respect to Jim for sticking to his principles of loyalty. He must have known it would cost him his job.

The need to take action makes more sense now.

^ +1 to this StM.

Many interesting insights in it, not least this (KB I think) which absolutely tells you JM wasn't in the place to lead the club back up, and leaving was absolutely the right thing for Saints and ultimately the kindest thing for JM too.

"... if he was broken at Worcester, and empty at Newcastle, after the Ospreys he had nowhere to go. He had asked the players for physicality, and to win the collisions, and when they did neither I asked him what he could do. He said, ‘I don’t know the answer’. You could see it in his eyes, and you just wanted to give him a cuddle."

 
Longers
Re: Why Jim had to go
Longers (IP Logged)
21 December, 2017 19:10
Quote:
SaintMaul
Quote:
Longers
Quote:
SaintsAsh
Quote:
Longers
Quote:
SaintMaul
Thanks for posting Ancient Mariner.
Respect to Keith for not shying away from taking responsibility.

Respect to Jim for sticking to his principles of loyalty. He must have known it would cost him his job.

The need to take action makes more sense now.

Mmm, once again SaintMaul we disagree....are we fated to always be thus?

Who commands the greater loyalty? The friend or the paymaster? One colleague or another?

He let down a large number of people in the squad. He let down a great number of people in the stands. And he let down the club. All through misplaced loyalty.

How much do you need?

I disagree, he looked after his coaches by saying let it be me. That for me shows a man with great integrity, fair play to him. The players are saying that he still had the dressing room. Sometimes the dynamic changes and you try too much to get it back, yes a mistake but as a man the guy showed integrity, ill never knock him for that.


I hope my comment does not get interpreted as a dig at his integrity. It is not meant to be. But what value does that integrity carry, if all around is lost?

Jim got lost between his integrity and loyalty, unfortunately those who may have been advising him where to find direction, were not listened to or were ignored. Consequently the team find themselves where they are and someone else had to make the decisions.

I hear the point that Jim could have been misguided ignoring the mounting evidence about Dorian. Obstinate even. But that doesn't stop me admiring Jim for his loyalty. He didn't sacrifice his close friend who helped him achieve so much success when plenty of people would have to save their own skin. Jim left with his head held high saying I'm not going to stab Dorian in the back. But equally I get people's frustration that Jim didn't jettison Dorian.

I'm sure Longers there will be plenty we will both agree and disagree upon as Saints look to rebuild. But it would be a dull world and message board if everyone agreed all the time! From memory I think we've both always agreed to disagree repsctfully.

(Sm128)

 
ch saint
Re: Why Jim had to go
ch saint (IP Logged)
22 December, 2017 09:41
Personal integrity is one thing, but this is business and at the business end Jim didn't- embrace the media,embrace the supporters, embrace change,introduce marginal improvement teams, or manage the allocation of assets within the cap efficiently. So in the latter years he failed.
Most importantly he has not left an ethos or legacy. Ask yourself what the Saints stands for as a total entity, the board also utterly bereft of any thoughts down that line as well.
Life is a learning process he will be bigger and better at his next job, but he should do it without Nobby.

 
ballsout
Re: Why Jim had to go
ballsout (IP Logged)
22 December, 2017 15:13
What kind of moron signs/coaches Matfield and doesn't listen to his lineout insight? That's pretty much the main (only?) reason to have him in your team?

 
St.Sinner
Re: Why Jim had to go
St.Sinner (IP Logged)
22 December, 2017 17:44
Quote:
ballsout
What kind of moron signs/coaches Matfield and doesn't listen to his lineout insight? That's pretty much the main (only?) reason to have him in your team?

Absolutely crazy, it's like signing
J Wilkinson & telling him to shut up when he offers kicking advice. Sums Dorian West up by sounds of things.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Why Jim had to go
shendy (IP Logged)
23 December, 2017 13:29
Depends if one person does the signing and another does the not listening.



There ain't no Sanity Clause


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net
 
 

Who is online?

Total users online:  

Most users online:  

Users on this site:  

Where are they?