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MESSAGES->author
England training squad - Tuilagi not picked
SaintMaul (IP Logged)
29 December, 2017 13:58
Remember when Saints had loads of players getting England attention. I suspect if Harry was playing in a top-performing team he'd have more chance of making the squad

No Tuilagi which is surprising considering Jones' desire for more more bulky options in the backs.

Picking Graham suggests Jones is desperate for a out and out open-side. But even with Curry and Underhill injured I'm surprised especially as Wilson impressed on the Argentina tour.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: England training squad - Tuilagi not picked
Robby Richmond (IP Logged)
29 December, 2017 14:40
Yes, but as excellent as Wilson is, he's not an out and out open side. Unfortunately Will Evans at Tigers has had little game time.

 
Walks11
Re: England training squad - Tuilagi not picked
Walks11 (IP Logged)
29 December, 2017 14:48
Tuilagi has done nothing to warrant being included

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: England training squad - Tuilagi not picked
Connorman (IP Logged)
29 December, 2017 16:53
Why would Sicknote be included? No form.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: England training squad - Tuilagi not picked
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
29 December, 2017 17:51
Always injured, rarely passes the ball, the game has caught up physically (most centres big lads these days).

Shame he is apparently a very nice lad.

 
Nath-coys
Re: England training squad - Tuilagi not picked
Nath-coys (IP Logged)
29 December, 2017 18:36
Give him time.

He shouldn't be rushed back to international level.

But undoubtedly if he keeps himself fit over a period of time he will be back in the reckoning.

He has looked rusty and basic skills bit below par in the last two games, but that is too be expected. He hasn't played consistent rugby in about 3 seasons.

But even so the amount of space he creates on the pitch for others is incredible, just by drawing defenders in with his dummy runs.

HLTW I see your point in some regards, but if you play a play maker of two around a specimen like him it works very well. And is still very common across most International teams.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: England training squad - Tuilagi not picked
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
29 December, 2017 18:46
NZ donít, Aussie donít, Leinster donít, Exeter donít, England donít....

 
Walks11
Re: England training squad - Tuilagi not picked
Walks11 (IP Logged)
29 December, 2017 18:53
I think you need a better skill set with the bulk these days, his passing and vision isnít the best and is a risky yellow card with his tackling.

 
Nath-coys
Re: England training squad - Tuilagi not picked
Nath-coys (IP Logged)
29 December, 2017 18:54
I think you will find both of Australia's are ball carrying specimens before ball players.....
I think you will find Exeter quite often play Hill, Whitten both ball carriers before ball players....
Even SBW for NZ isn't much of a distributor, mainly straightens up but has an incredible offloading game.

Just like the back row and pretty much all areas of the rugby pitch it is about combinations.
Very rarely do you find the complete all round players.

A strong ball carrier in the midfield that keeps defences honest and constantly gets over the gainline is what England is crying out for.

Not saying Manu should be in this squad, infact I don't actually think he should.
But a fit match sharp Manu, yes please.....

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: England training squad - Tuilagi not picked
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
29 December, 2017 19:14
SBW is possibly the best offloader/handler of a rugby ball ever to play the game! Hill benched this year, Whitten is only 16 stone, heís solid and old school (literally), I wouldnít say heís an imposing ball carrier. Kurtley Beale isnít, I will give you Kuridrani but heís still got a much greater skill set than Manu.

The days of the ogre that just boshes it up has gone.... but hey we will have to agree to disagree.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: England training squad - Tuilagi not picked
SaintMaul (IP Logged)
29 December, 2017 21:22
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf
NZ donít, Aussie donít, Leinster donít, Exeter donít, England donít....

New Zealand have Sonny Bill Williams who is 17 stone.

Australia Samu Kerevi 16 stone 7. Tevita Kuridrani 16 stone 1.

Our goal isn't winning the 6 Nations but beating the All Blacks to win the World Cup. So it's looking for the edge that will help us beat New Zealand and win a World Cup.

Tuilagi tore New Zealand apart and won man of the match the only time England have beaten New Zealand with this group of players. He blew them away and they could not cope with him.

Put another way World Cup winning teams in the professional era have all had big centres who have got progressively bigger over time:

2015: Nonu and Sonny Bill Williams (both 17 stone)
2011: Nonu (17 stone)
2007: De Villiers (16 stone 3)
2003: Mike Tindall (16 stone)
1999: Daniel Herbert (15 stone 10)

The Lions were also successful in Oz and New Zealand with big centres such a Jonathan Davies (16 stone 5), Jamie Roberts (17 stone 5) and Ben Te'o† (16 stone 10)

The majority of these players were not renowned for their ball-handling skills.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 29/12/2017 21:40 by SaintMaul.

 
Walks11
Re: England training squad - Tuilagi not picked
Walks11 (IP Logged)
29 December, 2017 21:51
Sonny bill is a bit of a rubbish ball player though*

 
Nath-coys
Re: England training squad - Tuilagi not picked
Nath-coys (IP Logged)
29 December, 2017 22:14
Yeah he is absolute garbage isn't he.... Hahaha (wish we had him) lol.

But like I said before Rugby is about combinations and building the best team largely can come down to finding the best combinations and players that suit each other.

Nonu for example.... Great rugby player. Can do pretty much everything, but his Number one role in that NZ team was get over the gainline and get them on the front foot.
Who did he have outside him Conrad smith....
One of the best 'players' and intelligent rugby brains you will see on a pitch.

Tindall/Greenwood.
Barrett/Bosch.
Henshaw/ringrose.

All combos of the same mould.

Some prefer the 10/12 playmaker axis and a bigger impact player at 13.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: England training squad - Tuilagi not picked
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
29 December, 2017 22:22
Quote:
SaintMaul
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf
NZ donít, Aussie donít, Leinster donít, Exeter donít, England donít....

New Zealand have Sonny Bill Williams who is 17 stone.

Australia Samu Kerevi 16 stone 7. Tevita Kuridrani 16 stone 1.

Our goal isn't winning the 6 Nations but beating the All Blacks to win the World Cup. So it's looking for the edge that will help us beat New Zealand and win a World Cup.

Tuilagi tore New Zealand apart and won man of the match the only time England have beaten New Zealand with this group of players. He blew them away and they could not cope with him.

Put another way World Cup winning teams in the professional era have all had big centres who have got progressively bigger over time:

2015: Nonu and Sonny Bill Williams (both 17 stone)
2011: Nonu (17 stone)
2007: De Villiers (16 stone 3)
2003: Mike Tindall (16 stone)
1999: Daniel Herbert (15 stone 10)

The Lions were also successful in Oz and New Zealand with big centres such a Jonathan Davies (16 stone 5), Jamie Roberts (17 stone 5) and Ben Te'o† (16 stone 10)

The majority of these players were not renowned for their ball-handling skills.



As my post said, thatís out of date rugby, maybe I wasnít clear enough?

Rugby evolves year on year, surely our demise with the same processes over the last 3 years illustrated that.




SBW and Nonu are great distributors.

Wales are poor now because they still play meathead rugby. Teío is a big lad but has great feet and decent handling from League.

All Aussie backs have good hands. Being big and being skilful are not mutually exclusive



IMHO Manu is just a physical specimen, canít kick, canít pass, never has head up, rarely offloads in tackle. Roberts as 12 a good example, thatís dated. A 12 nowadays is as much a playmaker these days and if they can get over the gainline thatís a bonus. Farrell, Beale, SBW. Luther is old school hence nowhere near England squad any more.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: England training squad - Tuilagi not picked
SaintMaul (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 00:35
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf
Quote:
SaintMaul
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf
NZ donít, Aussie donít, Leinster donít, Exeter donít, England donít....

New Zealand have Sonny Bill Williams who is 17 stone.

Australia Samu Kerevi 16 stone 7. Tevita Kuridrani 16 stone 1.

Our goal isn't winning the 6 Nations but beating the All Blacks to win the World Cup. So it's looking for the edge that will help us beat New Zealand and win a World Cup.

Tuilagi tore New Zealand apart and won man of the match the only time England have beaten New Zealand with this group of players. He blew them away and they could not cope with him.

Put another way World Cup winning teams in the professional era have all had big centres who have got progressively bigger over time:

2015: Nonu and Sonny Bill Williams (both 17 stone)
2011: Nonu (17 stone)
2007: De Villiers (16 stone 3)
2003: Mike Tindall (16 stone)
1999: Daniel Herbert (15 stone 10)

The Lions were also successful in Oz and New Zealand with big centres such a Jonathan Davies (16 stone 5), Jamie Roberts (17 stone 5) and Ben Te'o† (16 stone 10)

The majority of these players were not renowned for their ball-handling skills.



As my post said, thatís out of date rugby, maybe I wasnít clear enough?

Rugby evolves year on year, surely our demise with the same processes over the last 3 years illustrated that.




SBW and Nonu are great distributors.

Wales are poor now because they still play meathead rugby. Teío is a big lad but has great feet and decent handling from League.

All Aussie backs have good hands. Being big and being skilful are not mutually exclusive



IMHO Manu is just a physical specimen, canít kick, canít pass, never has head up, rarely offloads in tackle. Roberts as 12 a good example, thatís dated. A 12 nowadays is as much a playmaker these days and if they can get over the gainline thatís a bonus. Farrell, Beale, SBW. Luther is old school hence nowhere near England squad any more.

So if I've understood you right HLTW

You agree you were wrong with your example that New Zealand and Australia don't have big centres and you now accept they do have big centres.

But when considering the indisputable fact that in the professional era, without exception, every single World Cup winning side and successful Lions side have had a big unit in the centres, you view this as irrelevant because you assert this is out of date rugby.

Despite this being the blueprint used by the All Blacks winning the 2015 World Cup and both sides in the 2017 Lions tests which is as recent as you can get.

But until (and big if) the next few World Cups and Lions series are won by teams without a big unit at centre then it's a belief that goes against the overwhelming, enduring and consistent weight of international rugby evidence.

IMHO if we are to beat the All Blacks we need to be threatening them in as many different ways as possible.

Tuilagi offers a gainline threat and offensive tackling that no other back we have can offer and we know that because he has done it before to the All Blacks as well as to plenty of other opposition. Also because of his ability to break the tackle and make yards like no one else we have, it draws in defenders which in turn creates space for players around him.

Does he have his limitations. Sure. Like Mike Tindall was slow, couldnt kick and couldn't pass. Jean DeVilliers and Jamie Roberts both lack a side step and their passing is/wss average. Sonny Bill's league learnt defence can be exposed e.g. his red card in the 2nd Lions test. Te'o's passing and kicking are not great e.g. passing the ball into touch in the first Lions test. Nonu was a limited distributor when first played for the All Blacks but he developed with time in the team. Hence why it is important to give Tuilagi game time to develop. Farrell, Slade, Daly, Joseph are all pretty similar. It makes it too easy for the New Zealand brains to work us out in advance of the next World Cup IMHO.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30/12/2017 00:47 by SaintMaul.

 
Eif Jones
Re: England training squad - Tuilagi not picked
Eif Jones (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 01:12
Could I please remind Englanders in this thread that it was Mike Catt in the centre, not Tindall and Greenwood, who turned the 2003RWC England's way when they were under pressure and Wilkinson was not performing. Under modern rules, Greenwood would not have played in the SF and F as he would almost certainly have failed his HIA in the QF.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: England training squad - Tuilagi not picked
Robby Richmond (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 02:28
Quote:
Eif Jones
Could I please remind Englanders in this thread that it was Mike Catt in the centre, not Tindall and Greenwood, who turned the 2003RWC England's way when they were under pressure and Wilkinson was not performing. Under modern rules, Greenwood would not have played in the SF and F as he would almost certainly have failed his HIA in the QF.

And England still would have won.

 
Eif Jones
Re: England training squad - Tuilagi not picked
Eif Jones (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 10:03
Or as Graham Henry famously said, Woodward was up most nights praying for rain, and God was on his side.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: England training squad - Tuilagi not picked
Neil-H (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 10:12
Having watched the Lions, I think itís a shame Teo hasnít been fit and available for England since, he is the closest to SBW England has and would been interesting to see what Eddie Jones would have done? With him I. The squad, it would give you different game plans, Ford/Farrell or Farrell/Teo

With Manu, I always saw him like an early Nuno big strong physical hard to stop 12, Nuno went on with age to add more to his game and playing outside Carter n Smith helped him!

I always thought Manu might progress, but the years of injuries he is no longer a youngster and those lost 3-4yrs May stopped him developing like he could have?

 
SaintsAsh
Re: England training squad - Tuilagi not picked
SaintsAsh (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 11:02
Quote:
Eif Jones
Or as Graham Henry famously said, Woodward was up most nights praying for rain, and God was on his side.

It is okay Eif, the scrum was reffed terribly which evened it up. England won the world cup, get over it mate, jealousy will get you no where tongue sticking out smiley

 
Lamont4Saints
Re: England training squad - Tuilagi not picked
Lamont4Saints (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 11:17
Manu canít pass, canít tackle properly, doesnít have any vision but is a good ball carrier.

England donít need him but they could use him if they changed their game plan.

He really should have been a wing or 8 or something as Tindall had a better passing game than Manu.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: England training squad - Tuilagi not picked
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 11:54
Quote:
SaintMaul
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf
Quote:
SaintMaul
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf
NZ donít, Aussie donít, Leinster donít, Exeter donít, England donít....

New Zealand have Sonny Bill Williams who is 17 stone.

Australia Samu Kerevi 16 stone 7. Tevita Kuridrani 16 stone 1.

Our goal isn't winning the 6 Nations but beating the All Blacks to win the World Cup. So it's looking for the edge that will help us beat New Zealand and win a World Cup.

Tuilagi tore New Zealand apart and won man of the match the only time England have beaten New Zealand with this group of players. He blew them away and they could not cope with him.

Put another way World Cup winning teams in the professional era have all had big centres who have got progressively bigger over time:

2015: Nonu and Sonny Bill Williams (both 17 stone)
2011: Nonu (17 stone)
2007: De Villiers (16 stone 3)
2003: Mike Tindall (16 stone)
1999: Daniel Herbert (15 stone 10)

The Lions were also successful in Oz and New Zealand with big centres such a Jonathan Davies (16 stone 5), Jamie Roberts (17 stone 5) and Ben Te'o† (16 stone 10)

The majority of these players were not renowned for their ball-handling skills.



As my post said, thatís out of date rugby, maybe I wasnít clear enough?

Rugby evolves year on year, surely our demise with the same processes over the last 3 years illustrated that.




SBW and Nonu are great distributors.

Wales are poor now because they still play meathead rugby. Teío is a big lad but has great feet and decent handling from League.

All Aussie backs have good hands. Being big and being skilful are not mutually exclusive



IMHO Manu is just a physical specimen, canít kick, canít pass, never has head up, rarely offloads in tackle. Roberts as 12 a good example, thatís dated. A 12 nowadays is as much a playmaker these days and if they can get over the gainline thatís a bonus. Farrell, Beale, SBW. Luther is old school hence nowhere near England squad any more.

So if I've understood you right HLTW

You agree you were wrong with your example that New Zealand and Australia don't have big centres and you now accept they do have big centres.

But when considering the indisputable fact that in the professional era, without exception, every single World Cup winning side and successful Lions side have had a big unit in the centres, you view this as irrelevant because you assert this is out of date rugby.

Despite this being the blueprint used by the All Blacks winning the 2015 World Cup and both sides in the 2017 Lions tests which is as recent as you can get.

But until (and big if) the next few World Cups and Lions series are won by teams without a big unit at centre then it's a belief that goes against the overwhelming, enduring and consistent weight of international rugby evidence.

IMHO if we are to beat the All Blacks we need to be threatening them in as many different ways as possible.

Tuilagi offers a gainline threat and offensive tackling that no other back we have can offer and we know that because he has done it before to the All Blacks as well as to plenty of other opposition. Also because of his ability to break the tackle and make yards like no one else we have, it draws in defenders which in turn creates space for players around him.

Does he have his limitations. Sure. Like Mike Tindall was slow, couldnt kick and couldn't pass. Jean DeVilliers and Jamie Roberts both lack a side step and their passing is/wss average. Sonny Bill's league learnt defence can be exposed e.g. his red card in the 2nd Lions test. Te'o's passing and kicking are not great e.g. passing the ball into touch in the first Lions test. Nonu was a limited distributor when first played for the All Blacks but he developed with time in the team. Hence why it is important to give Tuilagi game time to develop. Farrell, Slade, Daly, Joseph are all pretty similar. It makes it too easy for the New Zealand brains to work us out in advance of the next World Cup IMHO.




Are you a barrister? You seem to like arguments!


If you read what I said my first post said ďmost centres these days are big ladsĒ. Second post disagreed with Nath when he said you can have a specimen around 2 playmakers.


Kuridrani, Kerevi, Sonny Bill, Beale, Farrell, Crotty, Laumape, Lienert-Brown, Joseph... they all have good hands big or not. They all run with their head up, either offload well or have rangy passing.

Roberts, Gibbs, Tuilagi, Burrell and some of the others of the past you mentioned do not. Iím afraid there is no place at the top level for just a Ďbig unití, you need to have the all round skill set. That has changed in the last even 3 years. Youíll be fine for domestic rugby just getting over the gain line but international rugby now needs distribution to stretch defences.


And I stand by that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30/12/2017 12:00 by HungryLikeTheWolf.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: England training squad - Tuilagi not picked
SaintMaul (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 12:32
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf
Quote:
SaintMaul
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf
Quote:
SaintMaul
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf
NZ donít, Aussie donít, Leinster donít, Exeter donít, England donít....

New Zealand have Sonny Bill Williams who is 17 stone.

Australia Samu Kerevi 16 stone 7. Tevita Kuridrani 16 stone 1.

Our goal isn't winning the 6 Nations but beating the All Blacks to win the World Cup. So it's looking for the edge that will help us beat New Zealand and win a World Cup.

Tuilagi tore New Zealand apart and won man of the match the only time England have beaten New Zealand with this group of players. He blew them away and they could not cope with him.

Put another way World Cup winning teams in the professional era have all had big centres who have got progressively bigger over time:

2015: Nonu and Sonny Bill Williams (both 17 stone)
2011: Nonu (17 stone)
2007: De Villiers (16 stone 3)
2003: Mike Tindall (16 stone)
1999: Daniel Herbert (15 stone 10)

The Lions were also successful in Oz and New Zealand with big centres such a Jonathan Davies (16 stone 5), Jamie Roberts (17 stone 5) and Ben Te'o† (16 stone 10)

The majority of these players were not renowned for their ball-handling skills.



As my post said, thatís out of date rugby, maybe I wasnít clear enough?

Rugby evolves year on year, surely our demise with the same processes over the last 3 years illustrated that.




SBW and Nonu are great distributors.

Wales are poor now because they still play meathead rugby. Teío is a big lad but has great feet and decent handling from League.

All Aussie backs have good hands. Being big and being skilful are not mutually exclusive



IMHO Manu is just a physical specimen, canít kick, canít pass, never has head up, rarely offloads in tackle. Roberts as 12 a good example, thatís dated. A 12 nowadays is as much a playmaker these days and if they can get over the gainline thatís a bonus. Farrell, Beale, SBW. Luther is old school hence nowhere near England squad any more.

So if I've understood you right HLTW

You agree you were wrong with your example that New Zealand and Australia don't have big centres and you now accept they do have big centres.

But when considering the indisputable fact that in the professional era, without exception, every single World Cup winning side and successful Lions side have had a big unit in the centres, you view this as irrelevant because you assert this is out of date rugby.

Despite this being the blueprint used by the All Blacks winning the 2015 World Cup and both sides in the 2017 Lions tests which is as recent as you can get.

But until (and big if) the next few World Cups and Lions series are won by teams without a big unit at centre then it's a belief that goes against the overwhelming, enduring and consistent weight of international rugby evidence.

IMHO if we are to beat the All Blacks we need to be threatening them in as many different ways as possible.

Tuilagi offers a gainline threat and offensive tackling that no other back we have can offer and we know that because he has done it before to the All Blacks as well as to plenty of other opposition. Also because of his ability to break the tackle and make yards like no one else we have, it draws in defenders which in turn creates space for players around him.

Does he have his limitations. Sure. Like Mike Tindall was slow, couldnt kick and couldn't pass. Jean DeVilliers and Jamie Roberts both lack a side step and their passing is/wss average. Sonny Bill's league learnt defence can be exposed e.g. his red card in the 2nd Lions test. Te'o's passing and kicking are not great e.g. passing the ball into touch in the first Lions test. Nonu was a limited distributor when first played for the All Blacks but he developed with time in the team. Hence why it is important to give Tuilagi game time to develop. Farrell, Slade, Daly, Joseph are all pretty similar. It makes it too easy for the New Zealand brains to work us out in advance of the next World Cup IMHO.




Are you a barrister? You seem to like arguments!


If you read what I said my first post said ďall centres these days are big ladsĒ. Second post disagreed with Nath when he said you can have a specimen around 2 playmakers.


Kuridrani, Kerevi, Sonny Bill, Beale, Farrell, Crotty, Laumape, Lienert-Brown, Joseph... they all have good hands big or not.

Roberts, Gibbs, Tuilagi, Burrell and some of the others of the past you mentioned do not. Iím afraid there is no place at the top level for just a Ďbig unití, you need to have the all round skill set. That has changed in the last even 3 years. Youíll be fine for domestic rugby just getting over the gain line but international rugby now needs distribution to stretch defences.


And I stand by that.

We're talking about winning tactics in the end stages of the World Cup when pressure and defences move to whole another level that you don't see out of World Cups (or maybe Lions tours).

Play becomes more conservative as mistakes are punished and pressure weighs on players. All players are pushing themselves to their absolute limits so there isn't the same space or freedom. Hence why seemingly unmatched World Cup finals are so close. Outside of the World Cup New Zealand would easily beat France in 2011. South Africa would thump England in 2007 and New Zealand would beat South Africa in 1995. We are looking for the successful formula in these situations and not your average Test match.

I completely get your point that a skilful big unit like Sonny Bill or Jonathan Davies is far better than Tuilagi. I don't think anybody would argue with that. Our difference appears to be whether we are more likely winning a World Cup sticking with a Ford, Farrell and Joseph type axis that is doing pretty well but is it enough to beat the All Blacks in the World Cup?

The majority of players you highlighted are 2-3 stone lighter than 17 stone 5 Tuilagi:

Beale is 14 stone 2
Owen Farrell is 15 stone 2
Jonathan Joseph is 14 stone 5
Ryan Grotty is 15 stone 2
Lienert-Brown is 15 stone 2

For me England would be taking a huge gamble not having a big unit at centre - whether that is Te'o or Tuilagi. Even if they don't have all the desired skillset history suggests we would be foolish to not build a big unit into our plans.

Farrell is a must for his kicking (overly important in World Cups) so it's a question of whether he plays 10 or 12 for me.

How do we keep as much skill in the midfield whilst posing a physical threat that keeps defences from drifting and honest.

Hence why IMHO we need to seize every opportunity, including training camps, to try different combinations.

Ford, Farrell, Tuilagi
Farrell, Teo/Tuilagi, Joseph/Slade etc

The beauty of having a beast in midfield is you can move them from inside to outside centre depending on the situation. E.g. even if Tuilagi is playing outside centre but we need to truck it up from a lineout to get in closer range for a drop goal in a World Cup, he can come to inside centre. If there is slow ball he can truck it up. If we spill the ball behind our gainline and pack it can go to him and he has the strength to keep the ball until the cavalry arrive rather than a smaller centre conceding a penalty. If we are in good attacking position we can dummy to him which holds the defence and creates space to attack outside.

Sometimes power is more important than skill in rugby.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 30/12/2017 13:16 by SaintMaul.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: England training squad - Tuilagi not picked
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 13:16
Ok I see your point. In which case much prefer Teío over Tuilagi. He actually passes the ball. I think Manu is now detrimental to a back lineís cohesion than positive.

That said Farrell is robust enough in defence to halt anyone IMHO. The defensive tactics you suggest would require plenty of kicking, Iíd have to stick with Ford and Farrell at 10/12.


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