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SaintED
The (other) elephant in the room.
SaintED (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 20:47
A disappointing performance with some criticism for the coaches and many players on here and yet still little or none for the glorious Captain?

The guy who the club couldn't possibly lose because it would be a sign the club was on the decline. The guy who was the best hooker in the Premiership (because Eddie said so) and also one of the best captains (again because Eddie said so) the guy who was going to anchor our scrum and give the squad direction? Erm, nope.

Where was he today? No leadership and no impact and it's hardly a one-off. It doesn't matter that he's a nice guy (he is) or that he's been at the club for a long time (he has) he is a big part of the problem and I don't understand why he gets a free ride, surely the captain is just under the coaches when deciding where the buck stops and attributing responsibility.

 
Saints065
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
Saints065 (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 20:53
Start Mikey for the next game for sure

 
ElySaint
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
ElySaint (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 20:59
I canít agree that Dylan is part of a wider problem with the club. I do, however, think that Haywood is on better form and should start next week (Dylan is away for two days this week as well). Dylan has not played to his best this season, but I find it difficult to say he is causing a problem - esp in the same way the other elephant so apparently is / has.

 
ch saint
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
ch saint (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 21:41
Captain, captain. What captain. There wasn't one out there today.

Colin Deans (lions Front row etc) was quite critical of Dylan on the radio a couple of weeks ago and said he thought Mikey was superior.

 
Saint Ted
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
Saint Ted (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 22:30
I'll start this post by stating I have personal beef with Dylan so it helps justify what I'm saying...

He is clearly a very good captain, I can't take that away from him

He has the ability to inspire any team

This season for saints, for one reason or another it's just not happening, I believe he's in conflict with the elephant/boil and it's not helping him and feel he's kind of given up on it

Much as I dislike the bloke, he's clearly got a good talent at leading a team and feel that how things stand at saints, he's not able to express this amazing talent on a team that clearly needs it

 
andysaint
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
andysaint (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 22:32
Form is temporary class is permanent. Dylan will come good again but Iím afraid his current form does not warrant the two shirt for Saints. That should also mean consequences for his England spot. As an England fan also I wouldnít want him starting.

 
ch saint
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
ch saint (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 22:43
Not sure he has it in the tank to come good. Too many concussions. Imagine how hard it must be to put your head where he has to knowing of the danger it brings. Then add the desire to captain England.
So Mikey for me from now on.

 
Christoff
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
smitferbrainz (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 22:44
IMO he's been in serious decline during the last few months. Again IMO he's not good enough to start at Saints let alone England. Not sure what's going on with him or any of them really. On form there's probably only 2 in that team who'd get near a star for any other prem team. If that's the case your gonna lose bad, and we are. Honestly can't see us winning any game, any time soon. Gotta hope Irish carry on being the same.....as bad as us. Quite difficult to do incidentally.

 
Sadsaint
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
Sadsaint (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 22:49
SAD as I am I still miss Steve Thompson, England, lions, RWC winner and inspirational captain. Heís gone, but I have never taken to Dylan. I believe the club weíre far too easy on his disciplinary escapades. As stated above, what Eddie says goes at the moment, but there may be a when that no longer applies. And I own up as a keyboard warrior Dylan, but like all of us, iíve Spent a lot watching the team and reserve the right to express my opinion.

 
TringSaint
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
TringSaint (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 23:18
Dylan is a busted flush. Play mikey next week as he gives his all.

 
Bob Fossil
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
Robby Richmond (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 00:03
Ed's been itching to post this *shrugs*

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
Saint Dom (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 00:19
The whole team is shell-shocked, so falling apart. A shambles is the best description I could offer for the first half at Twickenham. It was painful being there, in the North Stand, but I could see the pain the players were experiencing, too.

The second half was better and Dylanís influence grew throughout the game. Itís never easy to lead a losing team.

But - while the team may be all over the place and suffering every kind of nightmare - this message board has become a rogue elephant too. The keyboard warriors are full of spite towards this player, that player, this coach, that board member...

Iíve had enough.

Bye for now.



http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/99/99_0_1202835632.jpg
*I could agree with you - but then we'd both be wrong...*

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 00:40
If supporters canít criticise a 3rd 50 point pasting, you are insinuating that actually they are not allowed to, ever.

 
edwigg
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
edwigg (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 00:42
Spot on.
Iím now convinced heís a massive part of the problem.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 00:49
I dunno, I would just drop him on form.


It feels more like the forwards donít fancy playing for their coach and until that situation changes we may not get a change in mentality.

Or maybe Gaffney changes it. Or maybe Brussouw is elite and drags everyone up with him. My experience of South African players is that theyíre typically good guys and team players.

 
Deesaint
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
Deesaint (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 07:09
Hello St Ed
Sad to see you are still carrying the
I hate Dylan monkey on your back

We desperately need our key players doing what they do well
I would ask
Why is he off his game
Why is he less aggressive
Why is the leadership waining
What needs to happen to get it back on track

Dylan on his game is the best we have

Someone needs to help him climb back on the horse not continuous negativety



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31/12/2017 08:22 by Deesaint.

 
edwigg
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
edwigg (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 08:44
Saint Dom, by the time youíre back from putting your head in the sand everything will be fine so no worries.
Two things, most of the comments are from people who desperately want the Saints to be successful......the second thing, remember what is exposed whilst your head is in the sand!

Happy New Year.

 
Stevie Myler's right boot
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
31 December, 2017 09:17
Quote:
Deesaint

Dylan on his game is the best we have


When was he last Ďon his gameí in a Saints shirt?
Iím honestly struggling tbh for a recent game

 
SaintED
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
SaintED (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 09:26
Robby I could have written this after almost any of his games so far this season and it would have been as true although yesterday was poor even by his standards.

You were a major supporter of the idea that he was vital for the team and would make a big difference so any thoughts as to why he hasn't and isn't? It's no good talking someone up as a great hooker and leader and then when they fail to deliver saying the club atmosphere isn't right (a general point being made not saying you have said that) surely the whole point is he should be that rallying point especially if the coaches had/have lost the dressing room.

It's always been something of a myth that he's been this great captain for us. I guess he can point towards the win over a Tigs team in disarray this season but Wood was the captain in the Premiership final as he was (I believe?) when we beat Tigs when a man down most of the match. Those defining games were without both Hartleys leadership and often Hartley full stop.


Deesaint when was Hartley last on his game? He's had a couple of decent games this season but no more. Compare him to Lawes performances week in and week out and ask what the difference is? is Lawes any less upset/frustrated by the state of the club? I doubt it and yet he puts in MotM performances or close to every game. What's the difference? desire? ability? commitment?

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 09:34
Well the players Iíve spoken to all rate him highly as a leader, and Eddie Jones absolutely knows what he is doing. Whether there is a disconnect with the coaches I donít know. But missing as many tackles as he made yesterday is not the example we need right now....

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
Matthew (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 09:53
Quote:
SaintED
It's always been something of a myth that he's been this great captain for us. I guess he can point towards the win over a Tigs team in disarray this season but Wood was the captain in the Premiership final as he was (I believe?) when we beat Tigs when a man down most of the match. Those defining games were without both Hartleys leadership and often Hartley full stop.

I'm pretty sure Hartley started that 2014 match against Tigers as captain.... Then came the soft red card. Maybe a bit of an outlier because the incident really got the crowd behind the team - possibly the last time there was bear-pit atmosphere at the Gardens?



ACTUAL TRAINING FOOTAGE FROM
BEHIND THE SCENES AT SARACENS:
http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/37800000/Scrooge-McDuck-gif-mickey-and-friends-37815657-245-188.gif

 
TringSaint
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
TringSaint (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 10:13
Despite all of this, these guys are paid a lot of money to play rugby for the saints and in any other walk of life, they would be on a final warning.
If I performed as badly as they are then I would be warned to improve or get fired. Simple.

This disconnect is the most worrying thing as if any of us were offered 200k to play rugby for a living then we would jump at the chance. Still for our players they seemingly donít give a toss and merely amble about like a bunch of half cut 4thís on a Saturday outing.

 
Saint Ted
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
Saint Ted (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 10:50
Think thatís insulting to the half cut 4ths Tring!

We give it everything we have....Well at least for the first couple of minutes until the adrenaline is replaced by a hangover and you realise you donít have a chance in hell of keeping up with the 60 year old scrum half who is the only player on the pitch to have maintained any level of fitness!

 
stjj
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
stjj (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 11:01
Saint Dom
Well said. Not sure what the venting of spleens on here actually achieves. Coupled with the amateur comedians trying to show how clever they are, itís all a bit pathetic. Either support the team unconditionally at the matches or sod off. Itís happened before, we came through and will again. It happens. Saracens?

 
Deesaint
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
Deesaint (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 11:23
Quote:
Saint Ted
Think thatís insulting to the half cut 4ths Tring!
We give it everything we have....Well at least for the first couple of minutes until the adrenaline is replaced by a hangover and you realise you donít have a chance in hell of keeping up with the 60 year old scrum half who is the only player on the pitch to have maintained any level of fitness!

Always found the half time bottle of port to be a great reviver - well for 5 mins

 
Posh_Saint
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
Posh_Saint (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 11:29
Quote:
stjj
Saint Dom
Well said. Not sure what the venting of spleens on here actually achieves. Coupled with the amateur comedians trying to show how clever they are, itís all a bit pathetic. Either support the team unconditionally at the matches or sod off. Itís happened before, we came through and will again. It happens. Saracens?

This comment is exactly one of the problems.... unquestioning uncritical supporters who will accept pretty much any level of lack of achievement.
Sorry mate it is a professional sport nowadays and if you and your like can't accept that then perhaps it is you lot who should sod off !

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
shendy (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 12:27
Sorry Posh, you *can* support the team unconditionally and still be critical. Supporting the 15 on the pitch is important.

 
Posh_Saint
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
Posh_Saint (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 12:32
Quote:
shendy
Sorry Posh, you *can* support the team unconditionally and still be critical. Supporting the 15 on the pitch is important.

Indeed so - but don't see how this is at odds with what I said.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
GazzaTheDonkey (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 12:40
Quote:
Saint Dom
The whole team is shell-shocked, so falling apart. A shambles is the best description I could offer for the first half at Twickenham. It was painful being there, in the North Stand, but I could see the pain the players were experiencing, too.
The second half was better and Dylanís influence grew throughout the game. Itís never easy to lead a losing team.

But - while the team may be all over the place and suffering every kind of nightmare - this message board has become a rogue elephant too. The keyboard warriors are full of spite towards this player, that player, this coach, that board member...

Iíve had enough.

Bye for now.

Saint Dom

1 Agree totally
2 Er wasn't Dylan subbed so can't have had that much influence in second half?
3 Players are hurting - oh yes BUT so are the supporters, hence the 'venting' on here. No one on here really knows the answer but as someone once said 'opinions and like ar$eholes, everyone has one'

Keep posting, I for one enjoy your insights and thoughts and I am sure there are plenty of others.

 
Christoff
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
smitferbrainz (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 12:47
Quote:
stjj
Saint Dom
Well said. Not sure what the venting of spleens on here actually achieves. Coupled with the amateur comedians trying to show how clever they are, itís all a bit pathetic. Either support the team unconditionally at the matches or sod off. Itís happened before, we came through and will again. It happens. Saracens?

I'm one of the more negative posters on here, have been for the past 2+ years. Presumably you are one of those who think anyone who moans isn't a true supporter? You appear to be on here "venting your spleen", so that's okay then?. Who's on here "trying to show how clever they are" then? I'm picking up on loads of hurting, frustrated fans trying to bottom out what's going wrong and how it could be fixed. Frustrated at a team of talented individuals who appear to be either not trying very hard or capitulating at will. What's supporting the team unconditionally then? Even during games, speaking for me of course I'm shouting myself hoarse, cheering the team on, you know doing what good supporters do at games. As for sod off, if the cap fits!

 
Lamont4Saints
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
Lamont4Saints (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 13:04
I may be clever...I may not be
I may be funny....I may not be

But what is undeniable is that we are playing terribly. People talk about support? Well where have our players been supporting their team mates? In the tackle, in the ruck?
They havenít bothered, so why should we? If pir props canít be bothered to jog back into position after 5 minutes then why would anyone bother cheering?

 
MarchingIn
Re: The (other) elephant in the room.
MarchingIn (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 20:29
Mikeys form hasn't been sparkling either.

Personally I don't think we'll see the best of Hartley until a new coaching set up is in place. Just my opinion.


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