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edwigg
Lunatics & Asylum
edwigg (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 00:35
Remember the last time this happened, the outcome and the cause??

It all started when Allan Solomonís was appointed and everyone pinned the blame on him
When actually he was the saviour who wasnít allowed to effect the change needed.

He spotted straight away that too many senior players were getting bigger than the team and the board just fed their egos. Solomonís decided to try and stop the rot, what happened the players internally revolted and in the end after a losing streak of 8 games he was replaced.

Iím not saying he was right in the way he handled things but he knew what the problem was and the board did not back him to complete.

Itís now a very similar situation, rookie coaches who may one day bear fruit trying to battle it out with a handful of players who are on the decline, being the mouthpiece to the board who lack any understanding of the internal
Workings of a team environment.......businessmen who just happen to be Saints fans muddled into a directors lounge with their initials on a car park grid.

Where are the director at this time of crisis? Where is the Chairman?
Everyone seems o have gon to ground, are they at the club assisting on a daily basis working to this crisis around........I fear not.

When was the last time someone dare to speak out of turn about our Captain, how dare you, thatís Dylan of England, Mr. jones says heís wonderful!!

How man other players have to be treated differently and how many more players regard themselves as Saints royalty?

We have once again created a monster with rumours, usually correct, of mistrust, fallouts, unhappiness and a broken culture amongst coaches, players, mamagement and staff.....a totally unhealthy atmosphere created by weak management and poor standards.

It Iíll come back,not overnight an certainly not while the lunatics are running the asylum!!

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Lunatics & Asylum
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 00:53
A bit OTT I feel. There is a middle ground with the Solomons situation whereby there was serious player power but also he was too aggressive in his attempts at cultural change.


I donít see ego or player power as a problem. I see guys who have had the same coaches for their entire Saints career without a change in processes, systems and a poor level of communication. It is stale.

I suspect Gaffney changes this in the near term. International players do not become poor players overnight but equally it is up to them to grab the club by the scruff of the neck during this hiatus. Today they did the opposite IMHO. Players now need to be picked purely on form.

 
Eif Jones
Re: Lunatics & Asylum
Eif Jones (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 01:32
First game at Twickenham versus Saracens, so easy for Saracens ball carriers to break the gain line. Second game at Twickenham, so easy for Quins ball carriers to break the gain line.

Half a season and that problem has not been sorted. It shouldn't need expert coaches to sort, its a straight forward part of the modern game to stop the ball carriers at source.

 
TringSaint
Re: Lunatics & Asylum
TringSaint (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 08:45
Our senior players have been awol for months.
I would immediately pick on form and give the up coming players a chance and drop anyone who doesnít put in the required levels of effort. That includes Dylan, who I would drop immediately.

Maybe if he loses his England place due to poor form for saints then he may start to give a toss.

 
tboullem
Re: Lunatics & Asylum
Mobbs (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 09:07
The players have lost confidence in the coaches and themselves. The supporters have lost confidence in the players and the board. The board have lost the ability to communicate with the supporters assuming they ever had it since Leon passed away. The last CEO lost the plot, the new CEO has received a poisoned chalice. The sacking of Jim was inevitable, though sad, because he failed to identiify the problems and act upon them eighteen months ago. Some senior players are failing to assume their responsibilities. Junior players are not getting the opportunities they deserve. The interim head coach has already adopted a bunker mentality...'no, I don't know when Broussow is arriving..'.

In short we have become a laughing stock in the Premiership and in Europe, the white flags have been raised. Commentators and pundits are feeling sorry for us and as Dave Ward said yesterday, Saints are wounded and we went for the jugular. Every team facing Saints for the remainder of the season knows that we are there for the taking, we can be bullied, hit them hard, get into their faces, wind them up and Saints cannot respond. London Irish, Wuss and Sale may not have the 'stars' on parade but some passion and guts can work wonders. Sure, the teams in the bottom two places lost yesterday but both achieved bonus points and Wuss, bless them, put four tries on Sarries at AP.

Oh well, Wandies kick off in four hours, time to get the scarf out !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31/12/2017 09:10 by Mobbs.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Lunatics & Asylum
BerniesBestFriend (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 09:23
+1 Mobbs, well said... thumbs down

 
Christoff
Re: Lunatics & Asylum
smitferbrainz (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 09:27
Quote:
Mobbs
The players have lost confidence in the coaches and themselves. The supporters have lost confidence in the players and the board. The board have lost the ability to communicate with the supporters assuming they ever had it since Leon passed away. The last CEO lost the plot, the new CEO has received a poisoned chalice. The sacking of Jim was inevitable, though sad, because he failed to identiify the problems and act upon them eighteen months ago. Some senior players are failing to assume their responsibilities. Junior players are not getting the opportunities they deserve. The interim head coach has already adopted a bunker mentality...'no, I don't know when Broussow is arriving..'.
In short we have become a laughing stock in the Premiership and in Europe, the white flags have been raised. Commentators and pundits are feeling sorry for us and as Dave Ward said yesterday, Saints are wounded and we went for the jugular. Every team facing Saints for the remainder of the season knows that we are there for the taking, we can be bullied, hit them hard, get into their faces, wind them up and Saints cannot respond. London Irish, Wuss and Sale may not have the 'stars' on parade but some passion and guts can work wonders. Sure, the teams in the bottom two places lost yesterday but both achieved bonus points and Wuss, bless them, put four tries on Sarries at AP.

Oh well, Wandies kick off in four hours, time to get the scarf out !

Nicely summarised. Hopefully, nearly everyone who posts or reads this forum is now thinking "we're in a relegation scrap". The other two getting bonus points is bad for us as we can't even seem to get them. The game v Irish at home is likely to be massive the way things are going. Irish motivation may be starting to pick up. They must be thinking "hey, we can catch these guys", and they can, they might.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Lunatics & Asylum
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 09:30
good summary Mobbs but letís see the impact of Gaffney and Brussouw..... weíve had no external input this season (apart from
Gustard attending a practice session or 2).

 
Hollywood JK
Re: Lunatics & Asylum
Hollywood JK (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 11:12
Spot on Edwig....

Too many big Charlie players who are living on reputation, the likes of Hartley, Wood, Burrell, Foden, on big money and not delivering..

 
Whiston Saint
Re: Lunatics & Asylum
Whiston Saint (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 11:39
Solomonís has the right idea but went about in a cavalier fashion.

We are in a similar position now with some players having gigantic chips on their shoulders, most notably Foden and Burrell. They are leading others down a similar path and need to go.

There is no easy answer but expect an incoming DOR to make some big changes. Whatever is done needs to be supported rather than a reactionary Ďtheyíre all saintsmení type response.

 
Posh_Saint
Re: Lunatics & Asylum
Posh_Saint (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 11:45
Quote:
edwigg

Itís now a very similar situation, rookie coaches who may one day bear fruit trying to battle it out with a handful of players who are on the decline, being the mouthpiece to the board who lack any understanding of the internal
Workings of a team environment.......businessmen who just happen to be Saints fans muddled into a directors lounge with their initials on a car park grid.

Where are the director at this time of crisis? Where is the Chairman?
Everyone seems o have gon to ground, are they at the club assisting on a daily basis working to this crisis around........I fear not.


No-one is going to take issue with you re (declining) senior players failing to step up and take some responsibility. And yes our coaching team is looking a little thin on experience, which doesn't help.

However making ridiculous comments re the boad etc is just too much to ignore. Where are the director ?? Is thwre only 1 ?! Where is the Chairman ? Well I think it has been widely reported that he is in Australia atm. Gaffney is Australian and was interviewed in Australia. Who do you imagine did that ?
Does that sound like someone who has gone to ground and not assisting ?

Please think and then think again before making silly, inaccurate remarks.

 
Angus67
Re: Lunatics & Asylum
Angus67 (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 12:26
I agree with some of your comments and I think there are some parallels with the Solomons era and have found myself wondering if once again we have a situation where the 'Tail is wagging the body"

I do think that we need strong leadership and it seems that the removal of Jim was a sign of that.

The next few weeks with Mr Gaffney will be very interesting, he has his work cut out and it will be a test of not only his leadership, but that of the other coaches and players.

I woke up at 3 am on Saturday morning looking forward to heading off to HQ and with hope of seeing improvement, and even a win. We all know what happened and I woke up at 3 am this morning worrying about the state of the club. (silly I know)

Anyway COYS!

 
St tub
Re: Lunatics & Asylum
St tub (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 13:48
Dickens interview was bad.. ďthe gist being Iíve no clue what we are going to do..Ē

The board acted - to get rid of Jim, the wrong decision for me except for the fact it was Jimís job to get rid of West.. and he didnít.. so based on that the right call

Just look at whatís happening on the pitch.. thereís no-one grafting in the tight - itís as simple as that - far too many forwards are not getting around the corner / hitting the contact - they are hanging about in midfield or simply watching contact - until thatís sorted we are bucked

 
ch saint
Re: Lunatics & Asylum
ch saint (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 14:47
Hear what you say Tub and respect it, but Jim had to go. The option of retaining him for the rest of the season wouldn't work, he was far too far away from the work place. Tragedy is it wasn't done sometime ago in a planned manner.

 
edwigg
Re: Lunatics & Asylum
edwigg (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 13:05
Posh Saint, thatís a typical letís guess answer, whereís your proof that this happened?
Classic board backers reply, because you donít agree, it suddenly becomes a ridiculous comment?

90% of the board wouldnít have a clue who Allan Gaffney was and this would have been brokered by the CEO assisted by AD and maybe a few senior players?

How you can use the word ridiculous, with the last three years decision making by the board is laughable.

You should apply for a seat, you would fit in well.

 
Posh_Saint
Re: Lunatics & Asylum
Posh_Saint (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 16:17
Quote:
edwigg
Posh Saint, thatís a typical letís guess answer, whereís your proof that this happened?
Classic board backers reply, because you donít agree, it suddenly becomes a ridiculous comment?

90% of the board wouldnít have a clue who Allan Gaffney was and this would have been brokered by the CEO assisted by AD and maybe a few senior players?

How you can use the word ridiculous, with the last three years decision making by the board is laughable.

You should apply for a seat, you would fit in well.

It is a fact mate - believe it or not, no skin off my nose. As to how I know...... wouldn't you love to know !?

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Lunatics & Asylum
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 17:24
It wouldnít take a rocket scientist to work out that John W spent time with Alan G in Australia.

John White seems like a bloody good bloke and I know he is passionate about the Saints. He and Darbon are having to clear up a load of mess left by the board.


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