rugbyunion
Latest News:

The Unofficial Northampton Saints Supporters' Message Board




Box kick it
Are Leicester as bad as Saints?
Box kick it (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 16:50
Just throwing it out there to lift the gloom

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Are Leicester as bad as Saints?
Connorman (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 16:52
No. They have a scrum. The rest is as bad.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Are Leicester as bad as Saints?
Matthew (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 16:52
No. They have better/more players in the backs with the x factor that can score them some points even when the forwards have capitulated than we do. But nearly. They'll finish above us.

I take no pleasure nor comfort from their decline either!



ACTUAL TRAINING FOOTAGE FROM
BEHIND THE SCENES AT SARACENS:
http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/37800000/Scrooge-McDuck-gif-mickey-and-friends-37815657-245-188.gif



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31/12/2017 16:55 by Matthew.

 
ElySaint
Re: Are Leicester as bad as Saints?
ElySaint (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 16:56
Similariies to our latest against Exeter, and Tigers sit just one place above us in the table - we’d be above them if we’d won a game since....when did we even last win in the league?

However, Tigers were at Sandy Park. Tigers beat Exeter at Welford Road no? We got pumped at home by Exeter. I’d wager, on form, we’d get humped at Sandy Park as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31/12/2017 16:57 by ElySaint.

 
St.Sinner
Re: Are Leicester as bad as Saints?
St.Sinner (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 16:56
Not as bad as us, but still nothing compared to a team you would expect from Leicester.
East Midlands 2 teams sitting 9th & 10, must be something in the tap water round here!

 
JohnI
Re: Are Leicester as bad as Saints?
JohnI (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 16:58
Not at all. We are definitely below them this season in performance and stability of team.

 
tedge
Re: Are Leicester as bad as Saints?
tedge (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 18:03
Tigers' defence much better than ours and scrum much stronger. What this game did was to confirm how good Exeter are and how similar to us they are performing in the season after they won the league.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Are Leicester as bad as Saints?
shendy (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 18:39
Did you see the stat showing Exeter have scored 19 more league points than 2nd place Wasps in 2017? Astonishing gap.

 
St tub
Re: Are Leicester as bad as Saints?
St tub (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 18:55
Listening to the commentators - Rob B is about to come up vs the same issue Saints failed on.. my money he will navigate it well however

Waldron back to NZ
Chudley linked with Bath
2 props have interest from France and Wales
Couple of senior guys retiring at the same time and Steenson is 33 now.. (interesting they view their “Myler” in far higher regard than some here do)

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Are Leicester as bad as Saints?
Matthew (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 19:16
Quote:
shendy
Did you see the stat showing Exeter have scored 19 more league points than 2nd place Wasps in 2017? Astonishing gap.

How does that work? Is that if we drew up a table across the calendar year rather than across seasons?

I do notice that Chiefs have scored only 2 fewer points than we managed in the entirety of last season, with another 10 games to go. If they'd really pulled their finger out* and got a few more TBPs, they'd have exceeded our 52 already.



ACTUAL TRAINING FOOTAGE FROM
BEHIND THE SCENES AT SARACENS:
http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/37800000/Scrooge-McDuck-gif-mickey-and-friends-37815657-245-188.gif

 
Walks11
Re: Are Leicester as bad as Saints?
Walks11 (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 20:06
Quick look at their board and the sentiments are broadly similar

 
herbie85
Re: Are Leicester as bad as Saints?
herbie85 (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 21:00
Put it this way, I'm not looking forward to the away fixture at present

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Are Leicester as bad as Saints?
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 21:15
If we played them next week we would lose a million penalties at scrum and maul time

 
Eif Jones
Re: Are Leicester as bad as Saints?
Eif Jones (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 02:26
Like the Saints, their academy is producing very little of the quality usually associated with the Tigers.

 
195Rich
Re: Are Leicester as bad as Saints?
195Rich (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 09:37
How sad that both teams are in crisis - more sad that we are of course!

Off the point but I thought the bonus point try by Exeter, yesterday, was the try of the season. Seconds left on the clock and having the absolute control and confidence to know when the penalty came, that if they kicked to touch they would win the lineout, would milk a penalty and then would do the same thing again, before knowing they would drive Leicester over their own line to score. Saints at their best were never that confident in their own ability neither I think are even Saracens that confident.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Are Leicester as bad as Saints?
SaintMaul (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 11:02
Both clubs have a fan base with unrealistic expectations based on historical advantages we had that are no longer as important.

We are the only 2 clubs to have sacked Premiership winning DoRs mid-season to placate disgruntled fans.

Those pressures most likely add to unhelpful pressures on both the coaches and players. If getting to knock out stages of the Premiership and Europe remain the expectation of fans, I suspect that must affect things like: motivation (If we can't please them no matter what we do, what's the point?); fear of making mistakes; the culture in the club; the ability to attract and retain players; the fun and camaraderie.

In short until both Tigers and Saints fans readjust expectations to being mid-tsble teams as the norm below the likes of Sarries, Wasps and Bath, we will continue to struggle.

However once this is accepted it will help enormously with how we perform. Suddenly getting into top 4 will be the massive achievement against the financial odds that it is.

Just my opinion.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Are Leicester as bad as Saints?
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 12:26
Do you think we spend up to the salary cap? If not, by how much are we not? If so do you therefore feel those others clubs are spending over the salary cap?

Do you feel Saints is therefore being run solely as a profitable business? If so do you feel the owners should be investing more money given their asset value has increased dramatically, paid for by the supporters I might add. These are my thoughts.



We have missed Top 4 for 2 years running, we missed Top 6 last year and without change we would have missed it this year.

Would you only change management with relegation? If so I assume you are not supportive of the changes happening right now.


I might also add that with sensible decisions at board level, we would currently have Ackermann as our coach and we WOULD BE top 4 this year. So I wouldn’t the blaming supporters .....


These are just questions and not an attack, I’m intrigued.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2018 12:34 by HungryLikeTheWolf.

 
rugbymel
Re: Are Leicester as bad as Saints?
rugbymel (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 12:27
Why should we not aspire to be like Exeter and be above Sarries, Wasps and Bath?

 
ch saint
Re: Are Leicester as bad as Saints?
ch saint (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 12:48
Quote:
SaintMaul
Both clubs have a fan base with unrealistic expectations based on historical advantages we had that are no longer as important.
We are the only 2 clubs to have sacked Premiership winning DoRs mid-season to placate disgruntled fans.

Those pressures most likely add to unhelpful pressures on both the coaches and players. If getting to knock out stages of the Premiership and Europe remain the expectation of fans, I suspect that must affect things like: motivation (If we can't please them no matter what we do, what's the point?); fear of making mistakes; the culture in the club; the ability to attract and retain players; the fun and camaraderie.

In short until both Tigers and Saints fans readjust expectations to being mid-tsble teams as the norm below the likes of Sarries, Wasps and Bath, we will continue to struggle.

However once this is accepted it will help enormously with how we perform. Suddenly getting into top 4 will be the massive achievement against the financial odds that it is.

Just my opinion.

The beauty of this message board is that we have such diverse opinions, now to my mind Stmauls assertion that we are poorly performing because of the fans is right out in the three standard deviation territory, i.e. pretty rare. Our supporters are by and large happy souls who put up with poor rugby with no great expectation of winning cups. Here I am referring to the loyal middle of the road supporter who still cheered when we were relegated because he thought the players had done their best. The crowds in the second division were still among the largest in the country. So I don't agree with you on this one, in fact I would say the supporters are generally to docile and even serf like in their behaviour, ever grateful for the stadium we pay to attend. If the supporters showed their despair more it might encourage more dynamic action from the top of the company.
Just my opinion, coming from the other end of the spectrum.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Are Leicester as bad as Saints?
SaintMaul (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 13:51
Quote:
ch saint
Quote:
SaintMaul
Both clubs have a fan base with unrealistic expectations based on historical advantages we had that are no longer as important.
We are the only 2 clubs to have sacked Premiership winning DoRs mid-season to placate disgruntled fans.

Those pressures most likely add to unhelpful pressures on both the coaches and players. If getting to knock out stages of the Premiership and Europe remain the expectation of fans, I suspect that must affect things like: motivation (If we can't please them no matter what we do, what's the point?); fear of making mistakes; the culture in the club; the ability to attract and retain players; the fun and camaraderie.

In short until both Tigers and Saints fans readjust expectations to being mid-tsble teams as the norm below the likes of Sarries, Wasps and Bath, we will continue to struggle.

However once this is accepted it will help enormously with how we perform. Suddenly getting into top 4 will be the massive achievement against the financial odds that it is.

Just my opinion.

The beauty of this message board is that we have such diverse opinions, now to my mind Stmauls assertion that we are poorly performing because of the fans is right out in the three standard deviation territory, i.e. pretty rare. Our supporters are by and large happy souls who put up with poor rugby with no great expectation of winning cups. Here I am referring to the loyal middle of the road supporter who still cheered when we were relegated because he thought the players had done their best. The crowds in the second division were still among the largest in the country. So I don't agree with you on this one, in fact I would say the supporters are generally to docile and even serf like in their behaviour, ever grateful for the stadium we pay to attend. If the supporters showed their despair more it might encourage more dynamic action from the top of the company.
Just my opinion, coming from the other end of the spectrum.

(Sm128) The World would be boring if we all agreed. And respect for your different perspective. I may well be wrong but as an observation looking at the Tigers and Saints boards there are unrealistic expectations.

It may help to clarify I don't think fans expectations are the primary cause of our woes. Just one contributor which becomes more prominent when our teas are struggling. The contributors to our decline are multiple and far more complex IMHO. My apologies i wasnt clear.

I'd agree Saints have plenty of very generous-spirited fans. To some extent the club have milked this goodwill with price hikes so we now have the most expensive tickets yet offering low chances of competing silverware.

I remember posting 5 years ago the risk of resting on our laurels. It was a deeply unpopular view then. How dare I/others criticise the club when we were at our most successful in our history. But if you don't evolve you die. The problems we have, haven't materialised over night. We have some big challenges ahead and will take time and patience to address including some smart management, courage to make unpalatable decisions and nerve to stick to the course when it's what is needed but unpopular or slow to see the rewards etc. There isn't a quick fix as the problems are more than the coaching set up.

Equally we haven't suddenly become awful at everything in the way some are calling for the heads of all the coaches, half the players and the board.

One of the biggest strengths and assets of our great club are our amazing fans. So it's not a dig at our fans but rather positing how our fans reflect the general human condition when it comes to expectations.

An analogy would be an article I read about the Americans shock at the British Army's inability to hold the Helmund province in Afganistan by ourselves. We have a 70,000 army massively over-stretched with poor funding for equipment. The American view was based on a historical view of the power of the British armed forces. But we don't have an empire anymore. We are a small island with 60m population and completing different from the super power we used to be. Judging us on our historical importance is a very understandable ordinary human reaction. Contextualising a situation through the lenses of history is how we make sense of a complex situstion. It often leads us into blatantly erroneous assumptions based on out-dated views.

But like I say. Just my opinion. I'd be amazed if the majority of fans who read this would ever agree.

 
Deesaint
Re: Are Leicester as bad as Saints?
Deesaint (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 16:32
To be honest I’d be surprised if a lot of fans have a view on contextualising the situation through the lenses of history

Probably all they see like me is what is on show for 80 minutes each week - and it ain’t that good

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Are Leicester as bad as Saints?
GazzaTheDonkey (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 16:48
SaintMaul - you are so right, I don't agree, since when has it been wrong for a fan to want their team to win? The players, coaches and board all get paid in money, we supporters get paid in 'enjoyment', just like they would be unhappy if they don't get their money we are entitled to be unhappy if we don't get our part of the bargain.


By-the-bye - I also don't agree Jim was sacked to placate disgruntled fans - he was sacked because he was failing at his job and that is not my fault or any other fans' regardless of what we write on this board.

What we can agree on is we so so desperately want it to improve.

COYS

 
Hymenoptera
Re: Are Leicester as bad as Saints?
Hymenoptera (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 17:27
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf
Do you think we spend up to the salary cap? If not, by how much are we not? If so do you therefore feel those others clubs are spending over the salary cap?
Do you feel Saints is therefore being run solely as a profitable business? If so do you feel the owners should be investing more money given their asset value has increased dramatically, paid for by the supporters I might add. These are my thoughts.



We have missed Top 4 for 2 years running, we missed Top 6 last year and without change we would have missed it this year.

Would you only change management with relegation? If so I assume you are not supportive of the changes happening right now.


I might also add that with sensible decisions at board level, we would currently have Ackermann as our coach and we WOULD BE top 4 this year. So I wouldn’t the blaming supporters .....


These are just questions and not an attack, I’m intrigued.

if you resign all your ageing, high earning under achievers come renewal time...the cap becomes irrelevant, because you have no cash left for quality? - hence the mire Jim has left you in.

Also the fact you have found best part of 700k for biggar suggests you have the bunce...just 50k less that Wasps were paying Beale and look at the heat they took from all quarters questioning their financial approach.

Coaching, recruitment and ethos..Jim has a lot to answer for whether he delivered a trophy or not....Saints are a massive leading club and shouldn't have been allowed to get to this stage.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Are Leicester as bad as Saints?
shendy (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 08:06
Quote:
Matthew
Quote:
shendy
Did you see the stat showing Exeter have scored 19 more league points than 2nd place Wasps in 2017? Astonishing gap.

How does that work? Is that if we drew up a table across the calendar year rather than across seasons?


Yes, games played in 2017. Exeter played 22, some below them actually played 23 and were still 20+ points behind.


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net
 
 

Who is online?

Total users online:  

Most users online:  

Users on this site:  

Where are they?