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saintsfella
Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
saintsfella (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 14:43
Is it only me worrying about how all these recent staff changes, recommendations for wholesale changes and seeming search for a new DoR are going to affect our recruitment?

I find it hard to disagree that we need a big clear out of dead wood in the squad, and therefore need significant reinvestment in the squad targeting ambitious, talented players. It goes without saying that said players will be targeted early on by other clubs too.

Who is going to be in charge of recruitment which, as I understand it, pretty much needs to be started to be wrapped up around now? Is it Gaffney? Will he be given the rights to recruit for us for season to come, despite only been given a consultant role until the end of the season? Will it be Dickens and West? Who have, at least, contributed to a fairly embarrassing recruitment policy over the last 3 years. Or will recruitment be reserved for our incoming permanent DoR? Who I understand is envisaged to join during the summer, all being well. At which point the ship may have sailed in terms of getting good value for the best talent?

I don't thin anyone on this forum disagrees we need two top class props to join us (not lease with Brookes rumoured to be off to Wasps)- who is going to sort this issue out?

I think this is a significant problem that's coming towards us at a rate of knots. If we get this wrong it's hard to see how we can expect an upturn in fortunes in coming seasons.

 
Brackleysaint
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
Brackleysaint (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 14:56
I was wondering the same thing saintsfella, who is going to make decisions about recruitment and retention. I suppose one possibility is the new DOR has already been identified and agreed terms and will have input but if that is the case it would seem a rushed decision.

 
TringSaint
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
TringSaint (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 14:56
problem or opportunity??

i see this as a cleansing of the soul for the club. a chance to sever some long standing relationships and look forward to the future.

i recognise that this is all very concerning, but its also exciting to seer who we can bring in - maybe some complete unknowns who can set the prem alight.

a couple of bulldozing props, a hefty lock, no8 and a tank of a winger would be good for starters.

absolutely no reason why we should fear that players will not want to come here - its actually a golden opportunity to shine for some who may have been previously overlooked.

 
Stingray66
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
Stingray66 (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 14:59
According to today's Torygraph Mr Gaffney "has intimated that he would be interested in becoming a permanent replacement"

 
saintsfella
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
saintsfella (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 15:04
Gaffney interested in becoming permanent DOR, but surely wouldn't be decided until the end of the season once we've seen how we fare- too late for recruitment, as I understand it. Yes, in an ideal world we will secure a permanent DOR in the coming months so he can get going with future recruitment behind the scenes, but not sure how realistic this is?

Tring- agreed it's a very exciting time for a cleanse of the environment and a fresh start. But I think if we don't get a permanent DoR within the next two months, we will miss out on any decent options for next season, and will either axe players to have a thin squad next year, or start the season with broadly he same blokes.

It's a big concern for me and don't really see a suitable and likely positive outcome.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2018 15:06 by saintsfella.

 
Nath-coys
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
Nath-coys (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 15:19
I see it is as Opportunity.

Time to promote the Academy players in too the squad that are ready.
No more wasted money on Average over seas players.

Cut the size of the squad slightly and have a smaller more competitive group of players with stronger competition for places.

2 solid props.
Experienced bulky lock.
Genuine ball carrying 8.
Hungry young winger.

And then depending on what players leave recruit sensibly round that.

I would like the squad complex to have proven experienced players in the Vital positions and build a young hungry squad around that.

 
shiversaint
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
shiversaint (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 15:21
I think the question needs to be asked in hand with what our hopes for next season are. Qualifying for the European cup this season is all but gone, so ultimately that is going to be our goal next year plus perhaps a stretch goal of winning the Challenge cup or AW (is it still going next year?).

Our current squad should be able to take us to european qualification. We are obviously not in a position to be commanding major interest from any players. So whoever ends up being DoR, has a chance to milk the academy a bit, and see who really wants to stake a claim for the club long term.

Deadwood or not - contracts are contracts, and we don't have the finances to be releasing players with payoffs right now. At best we'll be in the market for a prop and a replacement for North. Bear in mind that the players at the end of their contracts are not going to be looking like hot property right now, so there may be the option for some cheap 1 year extensions.

 
saintsfella
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
saintsfella (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 15:30
I think if we're not careful we will becoming relegation candidates next year if we don't sort this issue out. Bristol are likely to come up with big resources. I struggle to see any young academy players who are going to push us on next season if we pin out hopes on them.

Mitchell the exception, but he has two contracted SA s9's ahead of him. In my opinion Stephenson, Hutch, Collins (to an extent) haven't proven they're good enough when given the opportunity to kick us on from our current performances. Harsh and will be an unpopular view I'm sure, but I struggle to see any evidence of different.

I don't suggest buying people out of contracts, but equally I'm not sure on who's coming to expiry etc.

 
Deesaint
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
Deesaint (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 15:36
Alternatively
I wonder if Gaffney will revitalise the current squad and work with proposed DoR to gradually strengthen the team Or Gaffney himself may stay for a season - he must know an awe full lot of players - as you would hope any new DoR would
Eddie Jones didnít make wholesale changes to England just got them playing better
I would like to see a front row of Waller Hartley and Hill playing to their full potential
Ribbons and Lawes at lock
Brussow Eadie ( twisted my arm St Tub ) Wood / Gibson
Playing as a proper fully committed back row
These are good players they just need to have targeted coaching
They can do it but just need reminding how to do it

Backs - well as the saying goes Forwards win matches etc etc



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2018 16:35 by Deesaint.

 
tedge
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
tedge (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 15:41
I don't see a great deal of recruitment happening until next year. I think this year it will be restricted to replacing squad players who are out of contract and not re-signed. I suspect Gaffney will rely heavily on coaching improvement in the existing squad

 
Nath-coys
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
Nath-coys (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 15:43
I wouldn't be asking the Academy players too kick us on from this current situation as that is a incredibly hard thing to ask a youngster too do.
But for me Stephenson, Hutchinson, Collins and a few others In the academy have shown enough talent and ability too be good Prem players for me.

With a lot of contracts apparently expiring, up too 15 in some articles that is a lot of change in one go.

Not all 15 of them need money spending on a replacement.
Spend money on the vital positions with proven top quality players and build young hungry Prem quality players around them.

We should have a good chunk of Salary too play with as a lot of the players leaving are the older more experienced players that I would of thought were on fairly big wages.

 
saintsfella
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
saintsfella (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 15:46
DeeSaint- I do agree that if we sort the forwards out the back will be able to majorly up their game. They can only do so much etc.

If I'm honest that pack looks passive and weak to me. I accept they have time to improve but on current (past two seasons form) it is an issue and won't get us anywhere. Ribbons and Lawes too lightweight (in terms of tight 5 grunt) to play together, imho. Brookes has had his chance 100 times over. He's not a good enough scrummager and lazy around the park- cut our losses. Waller needs another loosehead to properly rotate with to rediscover his best form. Wood is largely ineffective in my opinion and should be one we should look to ship on. Gibson is a class act but needs to be situated in a more balanced back row, as was alluded to in another post. Eadie won't cut the mustard as our starting 8, from what I've seen.

A brutal/negative assessment, and one which I wouldn't have seen myself being so bullish about at the start of the season. But I think we have seen enough this and last season to be realistic.

 
SaintsMan87
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
SaintsMan87 (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 15:52
Papers donít know as much as they believe, many would have you believe lawes and hill are out of contract but they arenít.

A sad note is hill already indicating his desire to not renew due to lack of playing time. For me he looks out best tighthead, carries well but has energy around the field unlike JFR.

Brookes is going to leave, unfortunately for him there is a similar trend. Looks good for a year, then goes down hill and doesnít get retained. Seems to have fitness commitment issues.

 
Deesaint
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
Deesaint (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 17:01
Changed to Hill
Right about Brooks
So disappointing though

 
Nath-coys
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
Nath-coys (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 17:09
We have some very very promising props in the Wandies and academy though.
So yes it is unfortunate it hasn't worked out for them!

But let's get 2 new experienced, top draw props for a the younger guys to learn from and hopefully be first teamers themselves when the time comes.

Like wise we have some promising locks - hopefully they learn off Courts.

Promising FH - hopefully he tries to take as much from Biggar as possible.
Promising Centres - should be watching and learning from Horne.

Strongly believe our recruitment can massively improve by actually utilising the academy more and more pre planning.

But that's just my opinion.

 
tboullem
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
Mobbs (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 17:10
I thought Brooks was off to Wasps ?

 
St.Sinner
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
St.Sinner (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 17:19
Does anyone have a list of contracts up?

I have been wondering the same thing, who will be talking to potential signings? And more worryingly, our position, both in terms of coaching situation & our predicament of being in the basement of the league & cultural problems/poor attitude within the team. It can't be attractive to players we approach.

I'm sure Gaffney & the board will already be sorting out how to go about this, just be interesting to know how it's going to work. As mentioned elsewhere on the board , Gaffney knows a lot of rugby people and a lot of players.
If he gets involved in recruitment; That could be our saving grace right there.

 
Sans Culottes
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
Sans Culottes (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 18:14
Quote:
Brackleysaint
I was wondering the same thing saintsfella, who is going to make decisions about recruitment and retention. I suppose one possibility is the new DOR has already been identified and agreed terms and will have input but if that is the case it would seem a rushed decision.

Or excellent forward thinking and planning, depending on which axe is being ground.

 
SaintsMan87
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
SaintsMan87 (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 18:17
As far as I know, could be some more I think itís

Wood
Brookes
Myler
Foden
Elliot
Gibson
Pato
North (obvs)

I think thereís some more fringe players but not sure

 
Nath-coys
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
Nath-coys (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 18:43
Hope Gibson renews!

He would be my Number 6 going forwards.
With a genuine 7 in Brussow coming in.
That combo there works for me.
Just need a proper ball carrying 8 IMO.

 
SaintsMan87
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
SaintsMan87 (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 18:46
Gibson Iím not 100% thatís based on him signing 3 seasons ago but heís been a standout for us. His work rate is phenomenal

 
Brackleysaint
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
Brackleysaint (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 18:54
Quote:
Sans Culottes
Quote:
Brackleysaint
I was wondering the same thing saintsfella, who is going to make decisions about recruitment and retention. I suppose one possibility is the new DOR has already been identified and agreed terms and will have input but if that is the case it would seem a rushed decision.

Or excellent forward thinking and planning, depending on which axe is being ground.

That would be very astute.

 
St.Sinner
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
St.Sinner (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 20:24
Quote:
SaintsMan87
As far as I know, could be some more I think itís
Wood
Brookes
Myler
Foden
Elliot
Gibson
Pato
North (obvs)

I think thereís some more fringe players but not sure

I think most of them may go looking at that, they've served the club well in the past campaigns but that's a lot of cap money to recruit for the future.

A few clever signings with the money & bring through the academy lads.

 
protestbeat
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
protestbeat (IP Logged)
04 January, 2018 08:21
Foden has a testimonial next season so that would suggest he has another year minimum. Gibson and Wood both re-signed summer 2016 but not sure how many years?
[www.therugbypaper.co.uk]

 
SaintsMan87
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
SaintsMan87 (IP Logged)
04 January, 2018 10:10
Quote:
protestbeat
Foden has a testimonial next season so that would suggest he has another year minimum. Gibson and Wood both re-signed summer 2016 but not sure how many years?
[www.therugbypaper.co.uk]

Foden already mentioned heís out of contract this season, Gibson only signed for us the season of 2015-16

 
protestbeat
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
protestbeat (IP Logged)
04 January, 2018 12:37
and re-signed after that first season, hopefully for a minimum 2 year extension which would mean he has a year and a half left.

 
saintsfella
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
saintsfella (IP Logged)
04 January, 2018 21:08
Mark Darbon saying recruitment will be covered by the existing coaches. Hmmm.

 
tedge
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
tedge (IP Logged)
04 January, 2018 22:15
Quote:
saintsfella
Mark Darbon saying recruitment will be covered by the existing coaches. Hmmm.

They don't really have much choice unless they were to sign on a new DoR now, which won't happen, so they have to leave it with the coaches. When the new DoR arrives he will largely have to work with the squad he inherits for one season, although new signings might still be possible in the close season. I suspect recruitment will be pretty conservative since Broussow and Biggar are already coming

 
saintsfella
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
saintsfella (IP Logged)
05 January, 2018 09:53
Yes agree, hard to see an alternative. I just hope they address our below standard front row issue as Iím sure any current or incoming coach would take issue here.

 
SaintsMan87
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
SaintsMan87 (IP Logged)
05 January, 2018 11:15
Quote:
St.Sinner
Quote:
SaintsMan87
As far as I know, could be some more I think itís
Wood
Brookes
Myler
Foden
Elliot
Gibson
Pato
North (obvs)

I think thereís some more fringe players but not sure

I think most of them may go looking at that, they've served the club well in the past campaigns but that's a lot of cap money to recruit for the future.

A few clever signings with the money & bring through the academy lads.

Last one I heard is nic groom is out and original news wast we werenít renewing as him an cobus too similar

 
saintsfella
Re: Huge Impending Issue- Recruitment
saintsfella (IP Logged)
05 January, 2018 11:26
God I hope not. I think Groomy, along with Courtney, Gibson and Teimana, has been one of our only shining lights this season. His defence and link play excellent. Would rather lose Cobus out of those two if we had to lose either (although understand he has a further year). Alex Mitchell looks brilliant and needs an opportunity though so maybe we donít need two ahead of him.


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