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Hollywood JK
Demolished in the scrum again!
Hollywood JK (IP Logged)
20 January, 2018 21:46
Can someone please put a request into Alan Gaffney, our CEO, and our board to finally go out and buy two world class props!! And I mean world class, proven at the highest level, using the Picamoles money, or George North saved money.. We need a solid set piece if weíre to have an attacking platform!

Surely that will be the priority of our new DOR. Quite how Dorian West has let it become so poor is beyond me!!

Iím sure today was a big reality check for Alan Gaffney. Saracens have not been great this season, but the gulf between the two squads is huge! For me, itís not a case of confidence or coaching, weíve got too many average squad players!

How many of them would make it into the Saracens first 15?? (Sm154)

 
Walks11
Re: Demolished in the scrum again!
Walks11 (IP Logged)
20 January, 2018 22:08
Todayís team.. none. Horne maybe

 
fleetg
Re: Demolished in the scrum again!
fleetg (IP Logged)
20 January, 2018 22:31
Apologies if this comes across as an "I told you so" but we are in dire need of a complete overhaul in both coaching and playing staff which I have stated several times in the last year or so and more recently have been told by numerous posters that we are not far off. Whilst I respect others opinions, we have been going backwards for almost 3 years now. 2 performances of heart and passion recently have failed to convince me and whilst Gaffney is no doubt a man with great quality, appointing him amd keeping the other coaches would be catastrophic. We need a clean sweep with at most keeping Dowson (if the new DOR wants him). The others can go (how the hell has West kept his job when the board were essentially telling Jin to sack him) ?!!
I want my team at least challenging for top 4 which I don't believe is possible with the current regime.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Demolished in the scrum again!
Robby Richmond (IP Logged)
20 January, 2018 23:00
You do not need to bring in world class props you need a coach who can turn £80,000 props into £200,000 props.
It's not the players it's the coaching, it's not the players it's the coaching, it's not the players it's the coaching, it's not the players, it's the coaching it's not the players it's the coaching...

 
shiversaint
Re: Demolished in the scrum again!
shiversaint (IP Logged)
21 January, 2018 01:27
How about sacking Dorian West?

Sounds like an echo...

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Demolished in the scrum again!
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
21 January, 2018 03:47
Quote:
Robby Richmond
You do not need to bring in world class props you need a coach who can turn £80,000 props into £200,000 props.
It's not the players it's the coaching, it's not the players it's the coaching, it's not the players it's the coaching, it's not the players, it's the coaching it's not the players it's the coaching...


Yes brother

See Exeter, Glaws turnaround post Johan, Quins etc..

 
Christoff
Re: Demolished in the scrum again!
smitferbrainz (IP Logged)
21 January, 2018 06:56
What do people think it is about the coaching then? West was forwards coach when our pack was ripping it up in the prem and in Europe. Perpignan game at MK in 2011 anyone? YouTube video posted on this board recently, including "that scrum". Bearing that in mind we know that Mr West can do it at the very highest level. We know he can turn the 80k into the 200k (Tiny and Mooj?). So, why isn't he doing it now? Game plans? Coaching methods now wrong? Game moved forward, Mr West moved backwards? Mr Mallinder not allowing him to do it "his way"? I guess someone on here may know or think they know, but something's changed that's made our "system" go from beating virtually everyone to beating virtually no-one. Sort that and we may change for the better. I think we've established beyond reasonable doubt that "forwards win matches.......".

 
ElySaint
Re: Demolished in the scrum again!
ElySaint (IP Logged)
21 January, 2018 07:05
It is well noted, anecdotally at least, that West is resistant to change and not open to new ideas. I refer of course to the Matfield, Picamoles incidents. I've also heard rumours that him and our Skipper haven't the best relationship. As I say it is anecdotal - but seems well acknowledged that is the case. That does not strike me as a happy working environment in which young players find it easy to flourish.

That being said, the penalties we give away at the scrum seem to be consistent so the players need to take some of the heat for not addressing it. I can't remember the last time Brookes played and didn't do his now familiar belly flop at least once.

 
edwigg
Re: Demolished in the scrum again!
edwigg (IP Logged)
21 January, 2018 07:39
Absolutely spot on with your post!
I canít understand the opinions of those who say we are on the up??
All Gloucester and Clemont did was paper over the cracks.

 
ElySaint
Re: Demolished in the scrum again!
ElySaint (IP Logged)
21 January, 2018 07:50
Quote:
edwigg
Absolutely spot on with your post!
I canít understand the opinions of those who say we are on the up??
All Gloucester and Clemont did was paper over the cracks.

+1

 
Deesaint
Re: Demolished in the scrum again!
Deesaint (IP Logged)
21 January, 2018 08:28
If Gafney can get us to 8 th or 9th this year it will be a job well done
We need a re-vamp of coaching
Forwards coach
Scrum coach
Conditioning
Dickens for attack
Possibly Dawson for defence
D o R
Recruitment specialist
I guess it all starts with a DoR who brings his own personal in
That will all take some time to implement

What worries me is the Board being taken by surprise when JM resigned- there was nobody lined up they went out afterwards for Gafney

By now with what was happening with Jim we should have appointed a new DoR who will be busy getting his team and looking at players for next year
The longer it is left the longer it will take to change
I think they have been caught napping
Or had buried their collective heads in the sand

Disappointing

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Demolished in the scrum again!
Flook (IP Logged)
21 January, 2018 09:33
Quote:
Deesaint
What worries me is the Board being taken by surprise when JM resigned

and there was me thinking he got the sack.

 
tedge
Re: Demolished in the scrum again!
tedge (IP Logged)
21 January, 2018 10:58
Did he resign ?

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Demolished in the scrum again!
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
21 January, 2018 11:06
Apparently it was suggested he let his colleague go, he wouldnít so they said youíve got to go. Fine line between honour, loyalty and stupidity.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 21/01/2018 11:10 by HungryLikeTheWolf.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Demolished in the scrum again!
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
21 January, 2018 11:23
Quote:
ElySaint
Quote:
edwigg
Absolutely spot on with your post!
I canít understand the opinions of those who say we are on the up??
All Gloucester and Clemont did was paper over the cracks.

+1


We have turned a corner because in weeks past weíd have been humbled by Glaws and Clermont

But you canít expect Gaffney to turn a seemingly poorly conditioned, poorly recruited and undercoached side into world beaters like Saracens in 2 weeks. Especially when away at sarries with our 2 best forwards out in a dead rubber.


Judge it by the end of season. Remember 2 weeks ago we were all saying ďas long as he keeps us up, brings back some pride etcĒ

Heís doing that

 
ElySaint
Re: Demolished in the scrum again!
ElySaint (IP Logged)
21 January, 2018 11:31
Didn't see much of this pride yesterday. The fight just went from the players again, snuffed out. So mentally weak.

 
HammerSaint
Re: Demolished in the scrum again!
HammerSaint (IP Logged)
21 January, 2018 11:53
Quote:
ElySaint
It is well noted, anecdotally at least, that West is resistant to change and not open to new ideas. I refer of course to the Matfield, Picamoles incidents. I've also heard rumours that him and our Skipper haven't the best relationship. As I say it is anecdotal - but seems well acknowledged that is the case. That does not strike me as a happy working environment in which young players find it easy to flourish.
That being said, the penalties we give away at the scrum seem to be consistent so the players need to take some of the heat for not addressing it. I can't remember the last time Brookes played and didn't do his now familiar belly flop at least once.

Maybe, KB not being seen pretty pi55ed, with several McDonald's in hand at 3am this morning would help his performance?

I realise the players need to let off steam and they are young but being so visible after such a big loss is a judgement call they need to make, I won't name the rest of them that were there, but I did suprise me how brazen it seemed. When you have won by 40 points, fair enough.

 
twsaint
Re: Demolished in the scrum again!
twsaint (IP Logged)
21 January, 2018 12:13
For goodness sake. Rugby players have a beer shock, horror.

There are criticised for not socialising together and criticised when they do. Bed at 2230 after every defeat.

So you , HammerSaint or your informant, are allowed out but these guys aren't.

 
ElySaint
Re: Demolished in the scrum again!
ElySaint (IP Logged)
21 January, 2018 12:35
I'm all for them bonding on a night out, heaven knows they probably want to blot yesterday from their memories. That being said, if it was starting to become detrimental to performance then it could be considered unprofessional. Whether getting blotto and eating burgers falls into that box I have no idea.

 
HammerSaint
Re: Demolished in the scrum again!
HammerSaint (IP Logged)
21 January, 2018 13:01
Quote:
twsaint
For goodness sake. Rugby players have a beer shock, horror.
There are criticised for not socialising together and criticised when they do. Bed at 2230 after every defeat.

So you , HammerSaint or your informant, are allowed out but these guys aren't.

Firstly, it was witnessed first hand and I was in town in a voluntary capacity until 4am, (stone cold sober!) also you might have noticed that I said they need to let off steam and they are young, but in the right moment

If KB wants to be the best TH Prop in England, which in IMHO, he is capable of, you make choices, I remmember Rio Ferdinand, relalising, if he was going to be an England international he had to change several things and one of them was to give up drinking, see Jonny Wilkinson et all, even friends of mine who compete in amateur sports, have made similar sacrifices and I'm not sure that if several Big Macs and a skinfull will see him training well on Monday morning when he GETS PAID to go to work, would the saints Nutrtionalist condone this? If you want to be the best you make sacrifices.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Demolished in the scrum again!
Robby Richmond (IP Logged)
21 January, 2018 21:14
Quote:
HammerSaint
If KB wants to be the best TH Prop in England, which in IMHO, he is capable of, you make choices.

Yeah, but he doesn't.
Doesn't matter anyway.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Demolished in the scrum again!
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
21 January, 2018 21:36
yeah just gives impression he ainít that driven

 
Hantsaintsrus4
Re: Demolished in the scrum again!
Hantsaintsrus4 (IP Logged)
22 January, 2018 08:23
Is there a point at which we would be better, or at least cannot be worse, without a scrum coach? The elephant in the room is still there, again some think gardening leave is required.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Demolished in the scrum again!
Robby Richmond (IP Logged)
22 January, 2018 12:52
It's really quite simple, until he goes you do not remove any of the excuses from the playing squad.

 
Dumpling
Re: Demolished in the scrum again!
22 January, 2018 16:53
Quote:
Robby Richmond
It's really quite simple, until he goes you do not remove any of the excuses from the playing squad.

It is going to be a bit like peeling an onion to get through all the problems.


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