I wonder if the coaches and the finance team will be talking together for this. A cup win would help the coffers especially as next season there is bound to be a reduction in season ticket revenue with the current "in Limbo" situation?

I recon we may see

9 Alex mitchel
10 James Grayson
11 Paublo
12 Tom Stephenson
13 Rory Hutchinson
14 Tom Collins
15 Ben Foden/Ace

May be Paul Hill Mikey Haywood Francois van Wyk

Not sure about the back 5 maybe Heinz in it for a run out

Expect a few that are Wandies to be in the mix as well.

I doubt that there will be many other Saintly ones joining me at the A J Bell, remember it is now a 2pm start.

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Van Wyk Haywood JFR
Ribbans Day
Ludlam Brussow
Eadie
Mitchell
Grayson
JPE Stephenson Hutchinson Collins
Furbank

That would be my guess.

Jim screwed this up last year in the final two pool matches having won the first two games. A largely second string team lost at Welford Road and then the senior players returned for a game against a weak Scarlets side which provided an easy win - net result, out of the competition. The way the pool sits we may as well try and win the thing and get over the capitulation last weekend. Sale are a difficult team to beat on their own patch so only a good Saints selection will have a chance of a result. With International calls and injuries the selection will have to be slightly pragmatic anyway.If we are really not bothered, then fine, put out a Wandies team for both remaining pool games and enjoy a couple of weekends off.

Rest Lawes, Hartley as the 6 nations is soon and we do not want to burn them out.

I would blood Painter/Trinder as we need decent props. Mitchell 100% and Grayson if Piers not fit.

Mr Hoddle any suggestions of pubs for a pre-match drink?

There is one pub on the site that I have never been in.
There is a Marquee at the end of the stadium and they normally have a real ale stall in there. They usually have about 3 barrels of something local and is usually very good! (may want to bring a saints "rigid plastic cup though).
The company that runs it seems to be from Wales but they use local Manchester micro breweries to supply the beer.
The marquee is rather chilly as well

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i think it will be relatively strong, there is a need to try and build some momentum in time for the next batch of league games. Horne probably needs a rest but everyone else should be available and ready to play for me. we rested Api, Woody and T last week so all back?

Its a development competition - I hope we stay true to that principle.

If you are not going to compete for big name transfers, you need a strong development approach (e.g. Exeter) - If you don't give players a chance to step up (and the AW is somewhere between Wandies and Premiership in my view, since most other teams stay true to the development principle) then really what hope do you have of developing your own players?

My 50p.. we need to balance development with putting out a side that has at least played together a couple of times, this time out

We have 2 weeks to find a side that can compete coherently with Bath away at their place
Bath minus Charteris, Underhill, Faletau and one would expect Joseph and Watson could be beatable if we can play to our potential

Interestingly - we (in theory) might have the option of players being available the weekend of the 17th (v Irish) and 3rd March (v Sale) plus the Mission Impossible weekend that is Exeter away (and given the international selectors are still ignoring the majority of the Exeter squad - that really might not be pretty)

9 games to go and we are 16 points ahead of irish.. or if one is (very) optimistic only 12 points behind Gloucester in 4th

Quote:

SaintsAsh
Rest Lawes, Hartley as the 6 nations is soon and we do not want to burn them out.

Um, they'll be away with England, as will Harry M - that's why the AW Cup is played the weekend before the 6N starts.

AW Cup should 100% be our target this season in my view. Stuff sticking to the development nonsense, Saints need to learn to be a bit more selfish if they want to succeed without a big financier.

Quote:

shiversaint
AW Cup should 100% be our target this season in my view. Stuff sticking to the development nonsense, Saints need to learn to be a bit more selfish if they want to succeed without a big financier.

Can you explain the logic? I don't see how winning the AW with a full strength side helps Saints be successful without a big financier in the competitions that really matter? (Premiership, Champions Cup)

In fact, its counter-intuitive.

If you want to win things without a big financier you need a pretty good development approach and the AW is a great vehicle for developing players - players need an increasing level of competition to develop, none are born Premiership ready.

Quote:

SuffolkSaint
Can you explain the logic? I don't see how winning the AW with a full strength side helps Saints be successful without a big financier in the competitions that really matter? (Premiership, Champions Cup)
In fact, its counter-intuitive.

If you want to win things without a big financier you need a pretty good development approach and the AW is a great vehicle for developing players - players need an increasing level of competition to develop, none are born Premiership ready.

Logic is simple, your worry about the big leagues is pointless if we aren't there.

The AW Cup is a potentially easier route to European Qualification and a good place to secure morale boosting wins - that is critical to attract talent, sponsors and supporters.

Does the structure of our set up really point to being able to successfully develop players right now? We have a contracts, coaching and management crisis. Qualifying for Europe goes a long way towards putting the support in place to solve those in the short term. Developing our U21 squad does not.

Long term, the reverse (and what you are saying) is absolutely true, but as I say, without a big financier, we just aren't in a position to approach things in that way right now, and I would argue that doing so would all but guarantee relegation next season. Time is on our side when it comes to the development side of things.

Logically the AW falls between the Premiership and the A league and as such teams have the right to choose their teams accordingly. The games are played when International Rugby denudes teams of 'star' players and as such Hartley, North, Lawes and Mallinder will be unavailable this weekend. Add to those four, the fact that Waller, Francis, Burrell, Elliott, Collins etc are injured then options become more limited. Yes, we could put out a Wanderers side but lets not forget, Saints have a history of treating the A league more seriously than some other clubs, so a Wanderers side would itself be a mix of youth and experience. Some backbone in the team with the likes of Haywood, Hill, Harrison, Wood, Pisi and Foden could mix in well with Ludlam, Mitchell, Stephenson, Hutchinson and Grayson. A victory at Sale would put Saints in a very good position to win the group and I cannot see the point in not trying to do so.

Even if we win, there is a good chance we won't qualify. With that in mind I'd be inclined to ensure key players who have already played a lot are rested with coming Premiership games in mind.

Teimana rested. Start Eadie.
Gibson rested. Start Ludlum.
Horne rested. Start Hutchinson.
Groom rested. Start Reinach (and bring Mitchell off the bench)
Start Grayson
Start Broussow to acclimatise him.
Start North brings experience whilst helping him get to fitness.

This way key players are rested but there are still plenty of experienced heads whilst giving the youngsters an opportunity.

If we win at Sale without a bonus point, Saints would be minimum three points clear of the pack with a home game to come.

I’m not sure Broussow will play this week, the interview with Ribbans stated that he hadn’t started to train yet. So maybe a debut in front of the home crowd the week after

[sub][/sub]

Quote:

shiversaint

Quote:

SuffolkSaint
Can you explain the logic? I don't see how winning the AW with a full strength side helps Saints be successful without a big financier in the competitions that really matter? (Premiership, Champions Cup)
In fact, its counter-intuitive.

If you want to win things without a big financier you need a pretty good development approach and the AW is a great vehicle for developing players - players need an increasing level of competition to develop, none are born Premiership ready.

Logic is simple, your worry about the big leagues is pointless if we aren't there.

The AW Cup is a potentially easier route to European Qualification and a good place to secure morale boosting wins - that is critical to attract talent, sponsors and supporters.

Does the structure of our set up really point to being able to successfully develop players right now? We have a contracts, coaching and management crisis. Qualifying for Europe goes a long way towards putting the support in place to solve those in the short term. Developing our U21 squad does not.

Long term, the reverse (and what you are saying) is absolutely true, but as I say, without a big financier, we just aren't in a position to approach things in that way right now, and I would argue that doing so would all but guarantee relegation next season. Time is on our side when it comes to the development side of things.

Respect your view - but in my opinion, we have a crisis because of a lack of a long term plan. The club needs a step change right now, not more of the same that hasn't served us that well in the last 3 years. Not sure how playing a development side in the AW this weekend 'all but guarantees' relegation from the Premiership either.

We need some momentum and a team that has game time together going back in to the premiership fixture against Bath, then the big one against Irish at home. Rest Rob Horne for the Sale game but the core of the team barring injuries needs to be the strongest available.

Momentum does not cure our dire defensive issues. Even if opposition development sides are beaten doesn't mean that suddenly Saints are a competitive team. Don't I recollect a convincing AW win against a young Dragons team in the middle of some horrendous defeats against AP and Euro teams.

Eif if the coaches are trying to implement new defensive structures then more the reason to field a settled side.

My preference would be to give some more game time over to developing players. It is the point of the competition. Moreover, with the DoR spot vacant and the problems that possibly creates with regards recruitment we may well need to increase exposure of the development players to first team rugby

Quote:

SuffolkSaint
Respect your view - but in my opinion, we have a crisis because of a lack of a long term plan. The club needs a step change right now, not more of the same that hasn't served us that well in the last 3 years. Not sure how playing a development side in the AW this weekend 'all but guarantees' relegation from the Premiership either.

Likewise respect yours and I totally see your point. My fear is that fielding weaker, younger sides will likely result in more losses. We still have a chance at qualifying for Europe this year and that should still be our goal. With that, we maintain better sponsorship and are more attractive to outside talent. Those two things are important to finance and function properly next year - not having that is where I see the relegation risk coming in. If we bomb out of every competition and achieve nothing, with no big DoR, we're in the 8-12 table position next year with low morale and no rudder, and that's where things go really south.

Looking at Gloucesters line up against Ospreys tonight, they are certainly taking the AW seriously.....decent sized crowd as well.

my memory suggests that Glaws have always done this?

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The final's in Gloucester, isn't it? If so, it makes even more sense for Gloucester to want to succeed in the AW this season.

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