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MESSAGES->author
Harry Mallinder likely to make the England bench
SaintMaul (IP Logged)
26 January, 2018 21:52
Just as a matter of deduction.

15 Watson
14 Solomona
13 Joseph
12 Farrell
11 May
10 Ford
9 Youngs

Bench: Care, Lozowski and who?

Of the other backs in the squad for the Italy game only Te'o, Earle and Harry aren't injured.

Te'o hasn't played since October and isn't match fit. That leaves only Harry or Earle's for the last spot unless Brown makes a fast recovery.

With Watson, May and Solomona all able to play wing, do you choose a fourth winger for the bench or a fullback, who can also cover centre and fly half?

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Harry Mallinder likely to make the England bench
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
27 January, 2018 07:52
would be very surprised if it isnít Teío, match fit or not. Then against its only Italy. IMHO Harry doesnít deserve a national shirt until he sorts out his defence...

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Harry Mallinder likely to make the England bench
SaintMaul (IP Logged)
27 January, 2018 08:15
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf
would be very surprised if it isnít Teío, match fit or not. Then against its only Italy. IMHO Harry doesnít deserve a national shirt until he sorts out his defence...

It's not just Te'o isn't match fit but Lozowski can cover centre so if Te'o was picked you'd have two replacements covering centre and none covering the back 3 positions.

Though I'd agree Harry needs to show improvement in his defence. He gets exposed at Premiership level. So he could get very exposed at international level.

 
Christoff
Re: Harry Mallinder likely to make the England bench
smitferbrainz (IP Logged)
27 January, 2018 08:42
Quote:
SaintMaul
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf
would be very surprised if it isnít Teío, match fit or not. Then against its only Italy. IMHO Harry doesnít deserve a national shirt until he sorts out his defence...

It's not just Te'o isn't match fit but Lozowski can cover centre so if Te'o was picked you'd have two replacements covering centre and none covering the back 3 positions.

Though I'd agree Harry needs to show improvement in his defence. He gets exposed at Premiership level. So he could get very exposed at international level.

Unlikely against Italy.

 
Nath-coys
Re: Harry Mallinder likely to make the England bench
Nath-coys (IP Logged)
27 January, 2018 08:53
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf
would be very surprised if it isnít Teío, match fit or not. Then against its only Italy. IMHO Harry doesnít deserve a national shirt until he sorts out his defence...

Totally agree. Undoubted talent, but hasn't shown the required Defence, tenacity and aggression required to wear an England shirt.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Harry Mallinder likely to make the England bench
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
27 January, 2018 09:06
Quote:
SaintMaul
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf
would be very surprised if it isnít Teío, match fit or not. Then against its only Italy. IMHO Harry doesnít deserve a national shirt until he sorts out his defence...

It's not just Te'o isn't match fit but Lozowski can cover centre so if Te'o was picked you'd have two replacements covering centre and none covering the back 3 positions.

Though I'd agree Harry needs to show improvement in his defence. He gets exposed at Premiership level. So he could get very exposed at international level.


Joseph can and has shifted to wing. May has been starting at 15 for Tigers. Lozowski played 15 when up in Leeds....

 
Hantsaintsrus4
Re: Harry Mallinder likely to make the England bench
Hantsaintsrus4 (IP Logged)
27 January, 2018 09:49
George Ford concedes more yardage after the tackle than any other player in any position in the Prem. H needs to leave Saints to get better coaching on his technique and to find a team with supporters who will encourage him rather than snipe all the time.
He has great talent and Jones has recognised that and will hopefully get him on the pitch at some point for his first cap at senior level. I seem to remember the U20s doing very well with him as captain despite his 'failings' as repeated on here, and despite Brexit.
COYS

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Harry Mallinder likely to make the England bench
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
27 January, 2018 09:57
Do you feel my suggestion that his defence is currently not good enough for international rugby is a snipe? I see it as fair analysis.

Iím happy to be blindly and insincerely bullish about the output from our players although I would feel dishonest....


On the U20 point, that is playing against guys of your age group as a teenager. Now he is in against not just those guys but the 10-12 years of age groups above him. The increased physicality to that level is significant and I just hope he is trained by England to get up to speed with it. Because we clearly are failing to help him with it.

 
Flyhooker
Re: Harry Mallinder likely to make the England bench
Flyhooker (IP Logged)
27 January, 2018 09:59
Not snipings there are what we see on the pitch. Yes he has talent but if you don't have the right attitude aggression or grit you will struggle.

 
JohnI
Re: Harry Mallinder likely to make the England bench
JohnI (IP Logged)
27 January, 2018 10:30
Hopefully his time with the squad may I still some confidence in his defensive play and unlike some other he may come back from the camp in a better position. The Italy game is probably the only game this season I would have him on the bench and probably only for a cameo appearance on the 65 minute mark if England are in the commanding position. A run out for England at this level could be just the thing he needs to quell some of the doubters and give him that bit of confidence he lacks at times. My only concern is that he still holds back at times in his tackles and just wonder if mentally or physically his shoulder holds him back still.

 
Deesaint
Re: Harry Mallinder likely to make the England bench
Deesaint (IP Logged)
27 January, 2018 10:31
There is a huge step up from U20 to top table
Unfortunately this has also been found out by Mark Hopley who took on the role of defence coach for saints far too early
But it was MH who was instrumental in tutoring Harry in his early days
Perhaps a spell under Phil Dowson and the England experience will help HM with growing his defencive skills
Otherwise he is an immense talent and rightly part of the England set up
Wonder if he gets on where EJ will play him

 
John Rickerd
Re: Harry Mallinder likely to make the England bench
John Rickerd (IP Logged)
27 January, 2018 10:56
Are you not having a snipe at G.Ford?, his defence is outstanding IMO for his size, and whilst he concedes yardage as you put it, he nails his man 9/10. Harry is very upright and not very flexible, and he will have to develop his own technique. Itís easy to blame the coaches etc., but it could be Harry who does not absorb what he is told. Time will tell, and finding a settled position will help.

 
Saint Jericho
Re: Harry Mallinder likely to make the England bench
Saint Jericho (IP Logged)
27 January, 2018 13:55
Quote:
John Rickerd
Are you not having a snipe at G.Ford?, his defence is outstanding IMO for his size, and whilst he concedes yardage as you put it, he nails his man 9/10. Harry is very upright and not very flexible, and he will have to develop his own technique. Itís easy to blame the coaches etc., but it could be Harry who does not absorb what he is told. Time will tell, and finding a settled position will help.

Agreed. George Ford's defence is excellent given his size. Never shirks a tackle.

It's not a snipe to suggest Mallinder's defence is not good enough yet. I'm sure he'd be the first to admit it. At present his defence is not up to Premiership standard let alone International.

 
Saint Swill
Re: Harry Mallinder likely to make the England bench
Saint Swill (IP Logged)
27 January, 2018 17:03
I mark Harry highly for potential, but currently I would put him behind Lozowski and Marcus Smith in the "Promising Newcomers" charts.

 
Barnetsarrie12
Re: Harry Mallinder likely to make the England bench
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
27 January, 2018 18:08
Eddie Jones has said Te'o looks good and would most likely be on the bench or might even start as Eddie might want to experiment against Italy and he needs his size in this six nations with Billy out and Hughes also out.

Mike Brown still has a chance to play against Italy and he could very well play, either way, no way Harry will be there. Te'o Loz, who has played 15, Jonny May can play 15, Joseph can play on the wing. I can't see any scenario where Harry gets on the bench unless you have multiple injuries this coming week in training.

 
Saint Stokey
Re: Harry Mallinder likely to make the England bench
Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
27 January, 2018 18:22
Not that I don't want Harry to get a cap but I hope he gets released.

Sounds like Mylers done a mischief so we need our 10s

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Harry Mallinder likely to make the England bench
Saint Dom (IP Logged)
27 January, 2018 19:31
Letís hope Harry doesnít read any of this nonsense...



http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/99/99_0_1202835632.jpg
*I could agree with you - but then we'd both be wrong...*

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Harry Mallinder likely to make the England bench
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
28 January, 2018 10:27
He doesnít need to, Gustard and Eddie would have told him already and he knows his current deficiencies

Heís also far too mature to take fair critique of his current output as a personal jolt.

If he sorts out his defence and carries hard (sonny bill williams) he could become one of the best players on the planet. Thatís why Eddie has him in there and hopefully he can iron out those elements. He did wonders to other Saintsmen.

 
St.Sinner
Re: Harry Mallinder likely to make the England bench
St.Sinner (IP Logged)
28 January, 2018 12:43
If Jones has the same effect on Mallinder as he did on Lawes we are sorted!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Harry Mallinder likely to make the England bench
SaintMaul (IP Logged)
28 January, 2018 14:02
England need an alternative to Brown for the World Cup. Brown will be 34 and even if he is playing at international standards could get injured.

Goode for whatever reason doesn't cut it for Jones. Watson needs a run of games to see how he does. But given the lack of alternatives I wouldn't be surprised if Jones wants to see what Harry can do.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Harry Mallinder likely to make the England bench
Neil-H (IP Logged)
28 January, 2018 15:28
Quote:
SaintMaul
England need an alternative to Brown for the World Cup. Brown will be 34 and even if he is playing at international standards could get injured.
Goode for whatever reason doesn't cut it for Jones. Watson needs a run of games to see how he does. But given the lack of alternatives I wouldn't be surprised if Jones wants to see what Harry can do.

Watson is the alternative, plays fullback all time now for Bath, played there for Lions, the question is will Brown still be first choice by the World Cup? Brown May be there for experience...or shock admission?

I think back 3 will be Daly, Watson and May, pace to scare any tram!

Daly can also play 15, as can Nowell, as can Alex L and Slade? And I see them all ahead of Harry at the moment.

Harry has talent, no doubt, he knows where he needs to improve, and hopefully he does so

BTW Teo on the bench, Alex L can cover all positions Harry can, and as mentioned Joseph can push out one if needed.


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