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Bob Fossil
A battle for Polynesian talent on the Anglo-Welsh border
Robby Richmond (IP Logged)
06 February, 2018 10:29
[www.thetimes.co.uk]

Of course, you could start your own school in Barnet too...

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A battle for Polynesian talent on the Anglo-Welsh border
Neil-H (IP Logged)
06 February, 2018 11:36
great read very thought provoking, thanks fo posting Robby

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: A battle for Polynesian talent on the Anglo-Welsh border
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
06 February, 2018 19:39
nice one Robby.... how many more Faletaus and Vunipolas are there though ?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A battle for Polynesian talent on the Anglo-Welsh border
Neil-H (IP Logged)
06 February, 2018 20:54
Fair point Wolf, I looked at the bigger picture the article was eluding to?

How the Unions are all now trying to get hold of players and make them able to qualify and tie them up before someone else nicks them, targeting younger n younger, get them early.

Just using Islanders as way to get attention in piece?

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: A battle for Polynesian talent on the Anglo-Welsh border
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
07 February, 2018 00:39
CLermont now go straight to source in Fiji...

 
Eif Jones
Re: A battle for Polynesian talent on the Anglo-Welsh border
Eif Jones (IP Logged)
07 February, 2018 02:32
Its the cheek of the RFU that stands out in the article.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A battle for Polynesian talent on the Anglo-Welsh border
OldPete (IP Logged)
07 February, 2018 06:53
before this gets all Anglo - Welsh name calling - there is another worrying dimension to this story. Its the scholarships to public schools thing.

Rugby in England is fast becoming a public school game only and the incursions into Wales are just part of the same problem. Raiding the islands and cherry picking youngsters of Polynesian heritage is not the solution when the effort ( is their even a plan ) to spread rugby into all schools is so ineffective.

It is also - the story that is - a symptom of what looks like a a very limited if not shrinking pool of domestic talent.

PS - after the revolution and I am in charge of education Rugby and Latin will be compulsory in all schools.

 
Brackleysaint
Re: A battle for Polynesian talent on the Anglo-Welsh border
Brackleysaint (IP Logged)
07 February, 2018 08:17
OldPete, rugby has always been a public school thing for as long as I can remember, and it has always been a old boys network, hence the amount of ex player sons getting academy and team slots who are at best average. This part has improved slightly since professionalism but is still rife.
The public/private school thing will only get worse as there are less & less state schools playing rugby.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2018 08:47 by Brackleysaint.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A battle for Polynesian talent on the Anglo-Welsh border
Neil-H (IP Logged)
07 February, 2018 08:31
Quote:
Eif Jones
Its the cheek of the RFU that stands out in the article.

Eif Id disagree, the RFU have set up a system that will try and identify and then bring the best out of the players out there... look at the big England training squad, the U20 performances in last how many years, Id say its working.

Its about getting that talent and nurturing it.

The Schools are the ones offering the scholarships, not the RFU, the premierships then offer the players academy places.

Is it the RFUs fault they got their house in order first?

Wales are now targeting English kids who can qualify for Wales, Scotland are doing the same, the Irish are to?

So lets not just say its just the English

For me the article is about bigger picture, how all unions are now looking at getting the talent young and trying to develop it and get keep them.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: A battle for Polynesian talent on the Anglo-Welsh border
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
07 February, 2018 09:45
I donít think Iím against scholarships for kids from less privileged backgrounds.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A battle for Polynesian talent on the Anglo-Welsh border
Neil-H (IP Logged)
07 February, 2018 10:12
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf
I donít think Iím against scholarships for kids from less privileged backgrounds.

My mates eldest is up for a scholarship for Bedford school through rugby and youngest is likely to as well, whatever you think bout private/public schools, it will do tem good if they get in

 
Eif Jones
Re: A battle for Polynesian talent on the Anglo-Welsh border
Eif Jones (IP Logged)
07 February, 2018 10:17
Neil-H, the RFU complain about other countries apparently stealing their players when they are busy doing it themselves, does that not count as cheeky. I have no issue about the English academy programs but don't decry similar programs in the other UK countries. At present, I suspect the Scarlets are much more satisfied with theirs than most of the English clubs. It does help to have such a large player base for England to do well at U20. Incidentally, its not just Polynesians who are attracted by scholarships to the likes of Hartbury and Millfield, the great Gareth Edwards had his near free time at Millfield.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: A battle for Polynesian talent on the Anglo-Welsh border
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
07 February, 2018 10:38
Quote:
Neil-H
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf
I donít think Iím against scholarships for kids from less privileged backgrounds.

My mates eldest is up for a scholarship for Bedford school through rugby and youngest is likely to as well, whatever you think bout private/public schools, it will do tem good if they get in


damned if you do....

 
TringSaint
Re: A battle for Polynesian talent on the Anglo-Welsh border
TringSaint (IP Logged)
07 February, 2018 10:57
i have no issue with having foreign players in the national squad via long term residency, etc, but this is all getting a bit sill now.

Both France and england have huge pools of players to select from (wales, scotland and ireland less so, but still more than NZ!), yet they strive to build around those that they can grab from elsewhere - what does it say for the non-Polynesian players out there in academies when they see some lad coming into the side on a scholarship and financial backing just because of their heritage - that sounds like they are developing / selecting on ethnicity which is totally out of order imho.

there are really good young rugby players from all over the world who given the right coaching can become world class, so maybe we need to start looking for those traits in our academies, irrespective of the player's heritage, rather than pinning our hopes on someone becoming stellar just because of where they come from.

 
Bob Fossil
Re: A battle for Polynesian talent on the Anglo-Welsh border
Robby Richmond (IP Logged)
07 February, 2018 11:26
This PBS documentary is well worth your time.




 
Walks11
Re: A battle for Polynesian talent on the Anglo-Welsh border
Walks11 (IP Logged)
07 February, 2018 11:38
This is not an RFU issue itís a private school problem. These are schools striving for kudos as best in the country, RFU are the downstream beneficiaryís. A friends son received a rugby scholarship to Caterham school in Kent but had to pass quite stringent academic entry criteria in order to gain entry. I suspect some schools are not so and are sacrificing academic performance for sporting achievement. The fee paying parents may not be happy with this shift and may vote with their feet or chequebooks

I think the Welsh had the most born outside of the country in last years 6Nís didnít they

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: A battle for Polynesian talent on the Anglo-Welsh border
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
07 February, 2018 11:38
Quote:
TringSaint
i have no issue with having foreign players in the national squad via long term residency, etc, but this is all getting a bit sill now.
Both France and england have huge pools of players to select from (wales, scotland and ireland less so, but still more than NZ!), yet they strive to build around those that they can grab from elsewhere - what does it say for the non-Polynesian players out there in academies when they see some lad coming into the side on a scholarship and financial backing just because of their heritage - that sounds like they are developing / selecting on ethnicity which is totally out of order imho.

there are really good young rugby players from all over the world who given the right coaching can become world class, so maybe we need to start looking for those traits in our academies, irrespective of the player's heritage, rather than pinning our hopes on someone becoming stellar just because of where they come from.


Itís every country apart from maybe South Africa

Ireland are terrible - they actively brought Bundee Aki over from NZ so he could replaced BoD. Most of the England overseas happened to have played here and qualify. Teío went to Leinster initially...

letís not delve into Scotland and Walesís history in this area..

 
TringSaint
Re: A battle for Polynesian talent on the Anglo-Welsh border
TringSaint (IP Logged)
07 February, 2018 12:11
hey, we are as bad as all of the others!!
my issue is that favouring one group of players over another will massively deincentivise the others as they know that they wont be on the radar of the national coaching team because of where they come from and not because of their skill-set.

As for rugby continuing to be a private school sport - this really needs to change if the grassroots of the national sides are to flourish - the clubs could do so much more in this area (and with the help of the RFU), but here, Tring RFC has no direct involvement with the schools in the area, so if you go to a comp where rugby isnt played then your only option is to go to the club at weekends - why not have the club support 'in school' rugby training during the week as well as weekends - that way the kids get up to speed faster and become better players.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A battle for Polynesian talent on the Anglo-Welsh border
OldPete (IP Logged)
07 February, 2018 12:56
Tring - you get my point the reliance on public schools is reliance on a limited pool etc. Much more could be done to evangelise for rugby outside that closed system. And the clubs could certainly do more

While in Northampton we have a lively junior rugby scene and at one successful rugby playing state school more could be done.

Perhaps we could remember how and why our club was founded .

 
Casual Saint
Re: A battle for Polynesian talent on the Anglo-Welsh border
Casual Saint (IP Logged)
07 February, 2018 13:42
Quote:
TringSaint
why not have the club support 'in school' rugby training during the week as well as weekends - that way the kids get up to speed faster and become better players.

This already happens - the RFU has a scheme whereby the Northampton schools are linked to a local club. The local club provides in school coaching support as well as a destination for the lads who want to play on a Sunday. As with all things school related thought, time and resources are limited so the level of engagement of schools in the process is mixed.



Once a scrum half .... always a scrum half

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A battle for Polynesian talent on the Anglo-Welsh border
Neil-H (IP Logged)
07 February, 2018 13:52
Quote:
Eif Jones
Neil-H, the RFU complain about other countries apparently stealing their players when they are busy doing it themselves, does that not count as cheeky. I have no issue about the English academy programs but don't decry similar programs in the other UK countries. At present, I suspect the Scarlets are much more satisfied with theirs than most of the English clubs. It does help to have such a large player base for England to do well at U20. Incidentally, its not just Polynesians who are attracted by scholarships to the likes of Hartbury and Millfield, the great Gareth Edwards had his near free time at Millfield.

Eif I am not decrying anyone, I know England do it, my point is everyone does it, you called RFU cheeky, they no more cheeky than everyone else.

the more options the kids have and opportunities given to them, then the better imho.

 
TringSaint
Re: A battle for Polynesian talent on the Anglo-Welsh border
TringSaint (IP Logged)
07 February, 2018 14:05
Quote:
Casual Saint
Quote:
TringSaint
why not have the club support 'in school' rugby training during the week as well as weekends - that way the kids get up to speed faster and become better players.

This already happens - the RFU has a scheme whereby the Northampton schools are linked to a local club. The local club provides in school coaching support as well as a destination for the lads who want to play on a Sunday. As with all things school related thought, time and resources are limited so the level of engagement of schools in the process is mixed.

if that is happening in northampton then great - certainly isnt happening here and its a shame.
interestingly, for some time now, there has been a growing contingent of girls wanting to play age-group rugby (post the gender split) and both the RFC and the schools simply stick their fingers in their ears and pretend that there is no interest - they have now started to act independently of the schools and club and are going it alone - how sad that they couldnt be accommodated and supported!


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