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Former Hollywood Saint
Wasps fined for 'overspending'
08 February, 2018 16:09
[www.planetrugby.com]

"Premiership Rugby have confirmed that following the completion of the independent audit of salary spend for the 2016/17 season, it was established that Wasps had overrun their limit by £40,528."


So surely this means that Wasps did actually break the salary cap? I know it isn't by much, but surely rules is rules. They got off lightly with a fine of half the amount, as a points deduction must have been one of the options.




FHS

 
andysaint
Re: Wasps fined for 'overspending'
andysaint (IP Logged)
08 February, 2018 16:26
I know a cap is a cap but the overspend is not even 1% I think some common sense should prevail sometimes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2018 16:28 by andysaint.

 
fair_weather_fan
Re: Wasps fined for 'overspending'
fair_weather_fan (IP Logged)
08 February, 2018 16:30
Quote:
andysaint
I know a cap is a cap but the overspend is not even 1% I think some common sense should prevail sometimes.

Reading the article I think it did Andy. Overspend in the NFL and there are no mistakes allowed as excuses

 
Raggs
Re: Wasps fined for 'overspending'
Raggs (IP Logged)
08 February, 2018 16:47
There's an overrun tax written into the salary cap agreement. It gets more expensive the higher the amount.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Wasps fined for 'overspending'
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
08 February, 2018 17:21
These are fixed small sums. One doesnít even need a calculator to ensure staying under the limit.


Anything over should be points off or whatís the point? But as we know the cap is kind of half relevant

 
Raggs
Re: Wasps fined for 'overspending'
Raggs (IP Logged)
08 February, 2018 17:44
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf
These are fixed small sums. One doesnít even need a calculator to ensure staying under the limit.

Anything over should be points off or whatís the point? But as we know the cap is kind of half relevant

It's about 0.6% of the cap. There's an agreed upon overrun tax for upto 5% overspend. It happened due to multiple internationals not playing and therefore not qualifying for additional cap space and having to pay 20% vat to a previously overseas player management agency.

 
StGonne
Re: Wasps fined for 'overspending'
StGonne (IP Logged)
08 February, 2018 19:55
It is a small overspend but when you think itís the annual salary of a young player it puts it into perspective a bit. Perhaps deserving of the large fine

 
Raggs
Re: Wasps fined for 'overspending'
Raggs (IP Logged)
08 February, 2018 20:14
Tax upto 50k is 50p on the pound. Upto 200k is pound for a pound and over 200k is 3 for every pound overspend. Over 5% of the base cap leads to further sanction. Its all written down. Given that clubs can only know how much salary cap space they have after the season is done, due to the international allowances, it's not that surprising that there's an overrun tax already included in the salary cap laws.

 
Bob Fossil
Re: Wasps fined for 'overspending'
. (IP Logged)
08 February, 2018 23:15
Well, it's disappointing but not at all surprising. Managing short-term contracts is very difficult & wasps have a top-heavy squad meaning it's quite thin on the ground. Things like this explain why Haskell-hoff is being discarded.

 
Walks11
Re: Wasps fined for 'overspending'
Walks11 (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 07:27
Quote:
Raggs
Tax upto 50k is 50p on the pound. Upto 200k is pound for a pound and over 200k is 3 for every pound overspend. Over 5% of the base cap leads to further sanction. Its all written down. Given that clubs can only know how much salary cap space they have after the season is done, due to the international allowances, it's not that surprising that there's an overrun tax already included in the salary cap laws.

I get all that and if thatís the rules then nothing to see.

It does beg the question though why have rules that allow an overspend in the first place. Clubs surely should be encouraged to spend within the cap and make allowances for worst case scenario from the various add ons and discounts. If they go over a sanction. It should be a hard threshold not one with exceptions however small

 
Saint Stokey
Re: Wasps fined for 'overspending'
Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 09:38
Where does the fine get charged?

I'd hope that this is included in next years cap allowance.

 
Raggs
Re: Wasps fined for 'overspending'
Raggs (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 09:39
The cap isn't fixed though. A club has to predict how much of the international player allowance it will qualify for. Wasps got it wrong due to injuries. They are encouraged to get it right because getting it wrong comes with a tax. Points deduction when your cap varies after signings are made would be harsh.

 
Walks11
Re: Wasps fined for 'overspending'
Walks11 (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 11:57
I get it isnít fixed but it should be. You make allowances for tax, add ons, etc and operate within this with enough headroom to allow for eventualities such as injuries. If you go over you get a points deduction, every one is in the same boat surely

 
Raggs
Re: Wasps fined for 'overspending'
Raggs (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 13:10
The argument is that a team supplying more players to England needs more expensive depth, hence the possible variation in the cap.

I agree that a fixed cap would be easier but it's not what was agreed and therefore such eventualities can occur.

 
ukms
Re: Wasps fined for 'overspending'
ukms (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 14:22
Quote:
Former Hollywood Saint
http://www.planetrugby.com/news/wasps-fined-20264-for-overspend/
"Premiership Rugby have confirmed that following the completion of the independent audit of salary spend for the 2016/17 season, it was established that Wasps had overrun their limit by £40,528."


So surely this means that Wasps did actually break the salary cap? I know it isn't by much, but surely rules is rules. They got off lightly with a fine of half the amount, as a points deduction must have been one of the options.




FHS

You missed an important part of the article in your quote winking smiley

Quote:
Premiership Rugby
ďThis is not a breach of the Regulations and there is no suggestion it was deliberate,Ē said a Premiership Rugby spokesman. ďA number of adjustments were identified by the independent auditors which resulted in the overrun. These have now been addressed.Ē

 
ch saint
Re: Wasps fined for 'overspending'
ch saint (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 14:27
Raggs you can squirm as much as you like, the problem is that it is Wasps's managements job to ensure the club does not overspend, taking into account all variables. If the club decides to push to the limit and get it wrong they get fined, rightly so. I would prefer a points deduction then big spenders would have to take the whole thing more seriously rather than lip service.
This would have been solved by having one less player.
So no sympathy from me.

 
Walks11
Re: Wasps fined for 'overspending'
Walks11 (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 14:55
Quote:
Raggs
The argument is that a team supplying more players to England needs more expensive depth, hence the possible variation in the cap.
I agree that a fixed cap would be easier but it's not what was agreed and therefore such eventualities can occur.

They can occur because they are allowed to. Close the loophole and make it a no exceptions cap would be my suggestion.

Squad depth isnít exclusive to England players, we had North, Pisi, Maíafu, Tuitavake, Api, Tuala in addition to Engalnd contingent out in the Autumn and also have lost 4 to U20ís and 1 to Scotland U20ís for the 6N. You pretty much know who will or who is likely to be involved internationally so you plan accordingly. Of course there is the odd bolter that gets selected out of the blue but unlikely to be more than 1per team. You sign these guys knowing they will potentially be involved so backups have also to be signed. You have to cut your cloth accordingly.

 
Hymenoptera
Re: Wasps fined for 'overspending'
Hymenoptera (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 16:44
Quote:
ch saint
Raggs you can squirm as much as you like, the problem is that it is Wasps's managements job to ensure the club does not overspend, taking into account all variables. If the club decides to push to the limit and get it wrong they get fined, rightly so. I would prefer a points deduction then big spenders would have to take the whole thing more seriously rather than lip service.
This would have been solved by having one less player.
So no sympathy from me.

Raggs is stating the facts rather than squirming.

Maybe Wasps should learn from Saint's management in non overspending ..ala Mrs Blowers?

 
ukms
Re: Wasps fined for 'overspending'
ukms (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 17:42
Quote:
ch saint
Raggs you can squirm as much as you like, the problem is that it is Wasps's managements job to ensure the club does not overspend, taking into account all variables. If the club decides to push to the limit and get it wrong they get fined, rightly so. I would prefer a points deduction then big spenders would have to take the whole thing more seriously rather than lip service.
This would have been solved by having one less player.
So no sympathy from me.

Is anyone squirming? Not sure they are ...... as for your sympathy, I donít think anyone was seeking it winking smiley

 
Raggs
Re: Wasps fined for 'overspending'
Raggs (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 18:55
I'd rather a fixed cap but that doesn't exist. It's not a loophole, it's a written rule in the salary cap. It's daft as hell that a club has to make its signings before it knows it's allowance but those are the rules as they stand. The overrun tax is there precisely for such outcomes and that's what it has been used for.

 
Walks11
Re: Wasps fined for 'overspending'
Walks11 (IP Logged)
10 February, 2018 15:02
I think you again are missing my point, but Iíve lost the will to explain further


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