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Former Hollywood Saint
Brookes is off
14 February, 2018 11:02
Official statement from the club says Brookes is off at the end of the year. I'm sure some people will be happy with this.


[www.northamptonsaints.co.uk]

FHS



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/02/2018 11:03 by Former Hollywood Saint.

 
fleetg
Re: Brookes is off
fleetg (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 11:04
Yep happy with that.

 
herbie85
Re: Brookes is off
herbie85 (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 11:06
Mixed feelings. Has the raw attributes, hasn't kicked on, be it his own failings or the clubs

 
twsaint
Re: Brookes is off
twsaint (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 11:10
Thanks, Kieran. Good luck for the future.

He remains a Saint for the rest of the season. Let's support him.

 
Stevie Myler's right boot
Re: Brookes is off
14 February, 2018 11:12
One of many that need to go so that we can reset and start again
Underachieved at Saints imho

 
Former Hollywood Saint
Re: Brookes is off
14 February, 2018 11:17
Certainly underachieved and has dropped down the England pecking order. Its a shame, because he has put in a few good shifts recently.

On the plus side, he will open up another chunk of the salary cap, but on the down side we'll lose a lot of kgs in the scrum.



FHS

 
SaintsAsh
Re: Brookes is off
SaintsAsh (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 11:22
I am 100% sure we can get more bang for out buck, what we got from Brookes was not value for money. IMHO

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Brookes is off
Neil-H (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 11:22
Good luck in your future Kieran

 
fair_weather_fan
Re: Brookes is off
fair_weather_fan (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 11:26
This is an opportunity for someone

 
SaintsAsh
Re: Brookes is off
SaintsAsh (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 11:28
Painter and Trinder might get a chance, I would still like a big hairy or very big and very hairy prop.

 
fair_weather_fan
Re: Brookes is off
fair_weather_fan (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 11:30
Painter and trinder coming on at 55 mins is going to mean pain for some front rows. Anyone who has seen what happens in Wandies matches after they come on.....

 
tedge
Re: Brookes is off
tedge (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 11:34
Brookes' statement infers that leaving was his choice rather than Saints' - comments ?

 
SaintsAsh
Re: Brookes is off
SaintsAsh (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 11:48
Well, if it were me I would offer a fair price for his performances (would be lower than he is currently on) then if he takes it great, if not then great.

 
Hantsaintsrus4
Re: Brookes is off
Hantsaintsrus4 (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 11:49
Best thing for both club and player.

 
SaintsMan87
Re: Brookes is off
SaintsMan87 (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 12:01
Iíd like paul hill to get some game time

 
andysaint
Re: Brookes is off
andysaint (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 12:21
I cannot say I am overly surprised. He is only 27 and this will now be his 5th move. He had the potential to be a good England prop but I fear he will end up like PDJ, continue to change clubs without making much progress. As a result of this I would like to see Hill get some more game time and stay but I would consider that unlikely at this stage.

 
SaintsEdward
Re: Brookes is off
SaintsEdward (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 12:27
Quote:
andysaint
I cannot say I am overly surprised. He is only 27 and this will now be his 5th move. He had the potential to be a good England prop but I fear he will end up like PDJ, continue to change clubs without making much progress. As a result of this I would like to see Hill get some more game time and stay but I would consider that unlikely at this stage.

If Boyd wants a more mobile pack Hill could suit that role very well. He's great in the loose and has decent handling.

 
Walks11
Re: Brookes is off
Walks11 (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 12:28
I read a while ago that he suffered physically between Lancasterís England wanting him to bulk up and Jones wanted lighter and faster. He did well early in for Saints but agree with the above not really kicked on as he should. Good luck to him

 
Saint Stokey
Re: Brookes is off
Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 12:42
hes done better recently but hasn't really lived up to his potential.

as mentioned above, we'll never know whether his decline has been down to himself, the club and its coaching or the changes in the laws.

I would hope that Boyd has been on the phone asking if he's quick and the resounding "No" wouldn't have encouraged the club to offer a greater salary.

Given the recent actions of the board and the apparant style that Gaffney and Boyd like to play, I would expect a replacement to be signed pretty soon. I can't believe that there haven't already been talk held.

 
GOD
Re: Brookes is off
Saintsby (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 12:45
Good luck for the future Kieran I hope you can re-enegise elsewhere.

 
Eif Jones
Re: Brookes is off
Eif Jones (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 12:46
This makes the signing of the Fijian winger even more irrelevant. Sorry, but the Saints scrum this season without Brookes has been pretty bad. Tight head prop is the most competitive position in the market place so a couple of new ones are not going to come cheap. Neither Hill nor Ford-Robinson are close to making the grade.

 
Saint Stokey
Re: Brookes is off
Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 12:53
Irrelevant? i don't understand why you say that.

Yes, we need some quality forwards but didn't we need a North replacement?

Our scrum has been pretty bad with or without Brookes. Eif, are you suggesting that Saints should not have signed a new winger and signed ANOTHER tighthead AND kept Brookes?

we don't know that a new tighthead isn't currently in talks and that Teqele (not going to attemp the surname yet) just happened to sign on the line first, hence the announcement.

The time to start complaining about the signings or lack of, is on the 1st game of next season when our scrum is shoved backwards.

 
SaintsAsh
Re: Brookes is off
SaintsAsh (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 13:03
Not really irrelevant, we want class players all over the pitch. But yes we still need a prop or two.

 
Walks11
Re: Brookes is off
Walks11 (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 13:03
Itís not the winger or a tightHead! It can be both. This would suggest we are definitely in the market for a new prop as opposed to might be.

 
andysaint
Re: Brookes is off
andysaint (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 13:04
Quote:
Eif Jones
This makes the signing of the Fijian winger even more irrelevant. Sorry, but the Saints scrum this season without Brookes has been pretty bad. Tight head prop is the most competitive position in the market place so a couple of new ones are not going to come cheap. Neither Hill nor Ford-Robinson are close to making the grade.

Have faith. Since Jim left the club has done a good job of recruitment on the playing and coaching side and is keeping the rumour mill at bay.

 
fleetg
Re: Brookes is off
fleetg (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 13:12
There will be new props coming in so yes a totally irrelevant statement from Eif.
Scrum has been woeful for 2 years with or without Brookes.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Brookes is off
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 13:18
I believe he had a pretty big pay raise last round, so plenty of cap for a nasty, committed scrummager.

Onwards

 
OlneySaint2
Re: Brookes is off
OlneySaint2 (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 13:19
I really don't mean to offend, but there's a lot of point missing going on here.

As I effectively said on other threads, the questions are, "Why does he want to leave?" and "How do we replace him?"

We tried to keep him, but he's off to Wasps. Why? Presumably, he doesn't even have the luxury of necessarily being first choice at Wasps and, presumably, if we tried to keep him, he was offered more money to stay. Might he have compared Dai Young and Andy Titterrell to Dorian? Might he be sick of being blamed for a totally dysfunctional scrum?

How do we replace him when he's been desperate to leave and other forwards are,apparently, just as keen to get away. If the rumours have anything to them, several more would leave if they could. Quality tight heads are hard to come by. We are not going to find one willing to come to Saints that easily. Any English player is going to consider what has happened to Brookes, Hill and Ford-Robinson under Dorian. Any English player is going to look closely at our scrum this season. Any English player is going to speak to his mates, his agent and his mates at Saints. The coming of Boyd will definitely help and we may get lucky, but we'll have to pay way over the odds. It's not as simple as people seem to think. They didn't sell tight-heads in Tescos last time I looked.

 
Walks11
Re: Brookes is off
Walks11 (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 13:25
Quote:
OlneySaint2
I really don't mean to offend, but there's a lot of point missing going on here.
As I effectively said on other threads, the questions are, "Why does he want to leave?" and "How do we replace him?"

We tried to keep him, but he's off to Wasps. Why? Presumably, he doesn't even have the luxury of necessarily being first choice at Wasps and, presumably, if we tried to keep him, he was offered more money to stay. Might he have compared Dai Young and Andy Titterrell to Dorian? Might he be sick of being blamed for a totally dysfunctional scrum?

How do we replace him when he's been desperate to leave and other forwards are,apparently, just as keen to get away. If the rumours have anything to them, several more would leave if they could. Quality tight heads are hard to come by. We are not going to find one willing to come to Saints that easily. Any English player is going to consider what has happened to Brookes, Hill and Ford-Robinson under Dorian. Any English player is going to look closely at our scrum this season. Any English player is going to speak to his mates, his agent and his mates at Saints. The coming of Boyd will definitely help and we may get lucky, but we'll have to pay way over the odds. It's not as simple as people seem to think. They didn't sell tight-heads in Tescos last time I looked.

Our situation is irrelevant to the cost of a new prop. They are now, like it or not, the new rock stars and command huge money.

I would hope also that Boyd/Gaffney have a very good idea of the make up of the coaching staff for next season or at least who will be leaving of the current incumbents. Therefore any new player conversations should be along the lines of donít worry Dorian will not be around next season or words to that effect

I also donít think Brookes is a good barometer for players wanting to leave, how many moves has he had to date?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/02/2018 13:28 by Walks11.

 
Saint Stokey
Re: Brookes is off
Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 13:30
we're assuming that Dorian will be Forwards coach next season. We're assuming that the arrival of Gaffney and confirmed arrival of Boyd hasn't raised hopes of the current squad.

If we weren't an attractive club, Teqele N wouldn't have signed for us.

As for wanting Brookes to stay, we signed him when he was an international. Currently, he's not. We don't know that he wasn't offered an extention on a non-international's salary.

There are a lot of assumptions going on at the moment and very few of us are actually in the know. If you think you are, ask yourself if you had heard about Teqele N joining before it was released, then maybe reconsider you ITK status.

Quote:
Walks11
I also donít think Brookes is a good barometer for players wanting to leave, how many moves has he had to date?

This! When someone like Courtney or Alex W wants to leave, not because of lack of game time, but because of the environment, then we have a problem!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/02/2018 13:34 by Saint Stokey.

 
SaintsAsh
Re: Brookes is off
SaintsAsh (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 13:46
Quote:
Any English player is going to consider what has happened to Brookes, Hill and Ford-Robinson under Dorian

It has happened to Brookes wherever he has been, Ford-Robinson was not a good scrummager before he came here, and Hill had played in the championship. Not sure we can blame Dorian for these players.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Brookes is off
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 14:12
SaintAsh

He recruited all of them. His full remit.


So yes Dorian is fully to blame for 3 years of rubbish scrummaging

 
fleetg
Re: Brookes is off
fleetg (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 14:31
Agreed.

 
tedge
Re: Brookes is off
tedge (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 14:31
He is not to blame for Saints' buying power limiting the quality available to coach

 
BrianB
Re: Brookes is off
BrianB (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 14:32
We dont usually announce before the signing club.....

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Brookes is off
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 14:57
Quote:
tedge
He is not to blame for Saints' buying power limiting the quality available to coach


So you are blaming Keith Barwell for a poor scrum ?

 
ch saint
Re: Brookes is off
ch saint (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 15:05
Brooke's under achieved compared to his potential, ultimately that was his fault not the coaches. Other players thought he was lazy and he even acknowledged it. He let himself and the club down.
Good luck at the next club but he will have to shape up.
At last some sensible hard nosed decisions being made I'm happy.
As for Eif's comments, there will be a whole raft of new signings lets make a judgment when we know who they are, not half way through the process. Does anyone on here seriously believe that Gaffney an Boyd are not aware of the strengths and weaknesses of the squad.
The All Blacks philosophy is very much that a better person makes a better AB, anyone who is lazy is immediately let go. This seems to be the execution of this philosophy.
I hope Kieran is suitably motivated to show what he is really capable of in the last few games.

 
tedge
Re: Brookes is off
tedge (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 15:08
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf
Quote:
tedge
He is not to blame for Saints' buying power limiting the quality available to coach


So you are blaming Keith Barwell for a poor scrum ?

Such an interpretation of what I said is unworthy of comment except to reaffirm that for several seasons Saints have not been able to afford the best props available; When they could recruit them this coach coached them perfectly well.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Brookes is off
Chris Hoddle (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 15:19
Good luck to Kieran.

I would expect that we will have a replacement lined up/
May also be a reason why he seems to have improved his play in the last few weeks?



http://chrishoddle.smugmug.com/photos/i-TsCHdzK/0/M/i-TsCHdzK-M.gif

 
Shiraz_Saint
Re: Brookes is off
Shiraz_Saint (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 15:45
Glad he is leaving - he has been very underwhelming for us.

Not sure he hasn't lost his desire having achieved his rugby aim ie international caps. Often seemed that way to me.

 
OlneySaint2
Re: Brookes is off
OlneySaint2 (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 15:49
ch saint - How can the departure of Brookes be an execution of some All Blacks philosophy to get rid of lazy players? We tried to keep him. It's apparent from the club statement that the decision to leave was that of the player. It's clearly not a "hard nosed decision", The player wanted away.

Chris Hoddle - Replacement lined up. No. Approaches being made. Hope we're successful, because if we are not, we're in deep trouble.

Tedge and SaintsAsh - Two of our three tight heads have full England honours. The other has made an England squad. Our hooker is the England captain. We have an experienced Fijian international and Alex Waller as loose heads. Our scrum, on any measure, is the worst in the Premiership.

Saint Stokey - If we tried to keep him, we must have offered him more than Wasps, mustn't we?

 
Saint Stokey
Re: Brookes is off
Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 16:01
Not necessarily. If he's out of contract, simply offering him a contract is attempting to keep him. He may have been made an offer that was expected to be rejected. Kieran looking for a move elsewhere, would ensure that he'd have to make sure he was showing that he is worth signing, especially given the uncertainty that Dickinson had with his expiring contracts.

If we offer a big contract and he signs, he could sit back again knowing he had another couple of years on a decent wedge. With him looking for a new club/ contract, Kieran still has a motive to keep performing and put himself in full display in the shop window.

Lots of assumptions but since I don't know the guy personally, it's just a theory and not meant as an intentional attack.

 
tigerburnie
Re: Brookes is off
tigerburnie (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 16:04
Gossip is he's going to Wasps next

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Brookes is off
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 17:30
Quote:
tedge
Quote:
HungryLikeTheWolf
Quote:
tedge
He is not to blame for Saints' buying power limiting the quality available to coach


So you are blaming Keith Barwell for a poor scrum ?

Such an interpretation of what I said is unworthy of comment except to reaffirm that for several seasons Saints have not been able to afford the best props available; When they could recruit them this coach coached them perfectly well.


Sorry why not? Letís not dance around what youíre suggesting - either we are or are not competitive in the player market. If we arenít itís because there isnít enough money.... whatís the reason for that? We donít have a mega owner who is happy to lose money for fun.

Dorian has been in charge of the forwards, Iím assuming he worked with Jim to work out who to sign across the squad and how much on props.

If he was daft enough, with Jim, to spank marquee money on a winger, have 9 centres, 6 locks, 7 backrowers, the best second team in the country but a poor prop quartet..... thatís on his head. Heís no shy character, it was a pretty egalitarian double act.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Brookes is off
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 17:31
Quote:
OlneySaint2
ch saint - How can the departure of Brookes be an execution of some All Blacks philosophy to get rid of lazy players? We tried to keep him. It's apparent from the club statement that the decision to leave was that of the player. It's clearly not a "hard nosed decision", The player wanted away.
Chris Hoddle - Replacement lined up. No. Approaches being made. Hope we're successful, because if we are not, we're in deep trouble.

Tedge and SaintsAsh - Two of our three tight heads have full England honours. The other has made an England squad. Our hooker is the England captain. We have an experienced Fijian international and Alex Waller as loose heads. Our scrum, on any measure, is the worst in the Premiership.

Saint Stokey - If we tried to keep him, we must have offered him more than Wasps, mustn't we?


One canít presume the reasons. Maybe we did a low ball offer he didnít want to accept? Maybe we did let him go but this is gentlemanly PR to help him get another job. Dunno, no point guessing.

 
ch saint
Re: Brookes is off
ch saint (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 18:13
Quote:
OlneySaint2
ch saint - How can the departure of Brookes be an execution of some All Blacks philosophy to get rid of lazy players? We tried to keep him. It's apparent from the club statement that the decision to leave was that of the player. It's clearly not a "hard nosed decision", The player wanted away.
Chris Hoddle - Replacement lined up. No. Approaches being made. Hope we're successful, because if we are not, we're in deep trouble.

Tedge and SaintsAsh - Two of our three tight heads have full England honours. The other has made an England squad. Our hooker is the England captain. We have an experienced Fijian international and Alex Waller as loose heads. Our scrum, on any measure, is the worst in the Premiership.

Saint Stokey - If we tried to keep him, we must have offered him more than Wasps, mustn't we?

Unless I have misread the statement there is nothing in it to indicate we wanted to keep him. Matfield thought he could be good, but he wasn't. I am sometimes guilty of skim reading but still can't see anything that says we tried to keep him. Wouldn't be surprise If D Young gets something out of him.

 
Christoff
Re: Brookes is off
smitferbrainz (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 18:27
Right decision for the club in my opinion whether or not it was prompted by the club of the player. I agree with all on here who suggest that it's no longer about him as he's off. It's all about whoevers going to replace him. Good luck to him but please let's just get the best replacement we can.

 
St.Sinner
Re: Brookes is off
St.Sinner (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 19:53
More cap money to be better spent.
Good luck Brookes.

 
St tub
Re: Brookes is off
St tub (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 21:52
I hope whoever is doing the recruitment has better ideas of where to go shopping than I can think of

Wasps (top 4, ecc rugby) want KB
However folk here are pleased heís off..

Something doesnít feel right there - even if tight heads are growing on trees as some seem to think, Wasps have far more purchasing power than we do

Sad to see KB go but all the best to him, we have a big shopping list to fill

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Brookes is off
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 21:56
Quote:
St tub
I hope whoever is doing the recruitment has better ideas of where to go shopping than I can think of
Wasps (top 4, ecc rugby) want KB
However folk here are pleased heís off..

Something doesnít feel right there - even if tight heads are growing on trees as some seem to think, Wasps have far more purchasing power than we do

Sad to see KB go but all the best to him, we have a big shopping list to fill


letís see who replaces him, for me too many anecdotes of poor attitude on various levels which doesnít sit well

happy to move on

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Brookes is off
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 22:03
JEFFREY TOOMAGA-ALLEN please Boydy !

 
St Saltaire
Re: Brookes is off
St Saltaire (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 22:04
KB was fantastic in his first few games but then went off the boil. I hope that he fulfils his potential and wish him all the best. Looking forward to seeing who the replacement is.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Brookes is off
SaintMaul (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 23:07
Looks like another international chooses to leave Saints for non-finanacial reasons following North, Picamoles and Clark.

I like the look of our backs next season but with our current set of forwards getting 6th next season would a significant achievement IMHO. With Brookes removed I reckon our first choice pack must be the lightest in the Premiership.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Brookes is off
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 23:20
Quote:
SaintMaul
Looks like another international chooses to leave Saints for non-finanacial reasons following North, Picamoles and Clark.
I like the look of our backs next season but with our current set of forwards getting 6th next season would a significant achievement IMHO. With Brookes removed I reckon our first choice pack must be the lightest in the Premiership.

ĎInternationalí

When was the last time Calum and Kieran were in EPS

Boyd will completely change the ethos and culture at the club from top to bottom.

Players will now want to come here to play under him. I think youíre behind on this one, with respect. A few forwards signed and we are bang on for top 4, no Europe distraction, more players playing every week etc.

Need ball carriers in the forwards desperately

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Brookes is off
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 23:22
Iíd go one further. I think itís really amazing that some posters who wanted us to keep Jim are now being a bit negative about next year under a fantastic exciting new regime, without them even having started yet

There will be a new feel good factor. There will be a new connection with fans. The players skill sets will all improve. Itís going to be a brilliant team to support.

I just donít get it? Is it because heís not English or something? Canít work it out....

 
Walks11
Re: Brookes is off
Walks11 (IP Logged)
15 February, 2018 06:34
Perhaps because some of our issues are yet to be resolved, either on the player or coaching front. Iím not in the negative camp by the way just offering a potential reason.

As you say we need carriers and some shoring up of the scrum.

 
Dragonboy
Re: Brookes is off
Dragonboy (IP Logged)
15 February, 2018 07:52
And of course Kieron's decision to leave may have been prompted by knowing who had been signed and not announced to leapfrog him in the pecking order. Slibah Ramani anyone?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Brookes is off
Chris Hoddle (IP Logged)
15 February, 2018 08:03
all but confirmed to Wasps on The Saints show.



http://chrishoddle.smugmug.com/photos/i-TsCHdzK/0/M/i-TsCHdzK-M.gif

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Brookes is off
SaintMaul (IP Logged)
15 February, 2018 08:13
Hltw - the world's not binary i.e. Jim good. Chris bad!

Sacking a DoR mid-season was my bigger concern. If Jim was going to be sacked do it end of last season or end of this. The uncertainty and lack of leadership hinders recruitment and increases unsettled players which increases likelihood of players leaving. Both have happened IMHO.

Have a read of Gaffney's latest comments in the Chronicle and the leadership and coherence in relation to recruitment is both confused and sadly entirely predictable.

Having said that Boyd is an exciting prospect (back to my point the world's not binary). I just don't expect miracles next season with the forward pack he has to work with - unless we recruit well there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/02/2018 08:24 by SaintMaul.

 
Christoff
Re: Brookes is off
smitferbrainz (IP Logged)
15 February, 2018 08:30
Boyd or Gaffney may not want to keep him. He's had decent games lately but for 2.5 seasons he's been "ordinary" at best. Look players will leave. Brookes may have had a "nod" that others are planned to come in who'll be ahead of him. It's immaterial who he goes to, just because it's Wasps it doesn't make Brookes any better than what he's been...."ordinary". It's not that long ago since we were regularly putting Wasps to the sword. We may do yet again under Chris Boyd but , as HLTW says, give him a bit of time and I'm confident he'll recruit better players, give us more than the one stereotyped game plans we've had for 3 seasons and take us to a better place. What's all this concern with Brookes leaving, he's not that good, not as good as he should be.

 
BrianB
Re: Brookes is off
BrianB (IP Logged)
15 February, 2018 09:22
The old board didnt do the right thing at the end of last season. The new board did what was needed this season. Listening to Jim on Radio Npton after his last game he stated he didnt know what to do. You could hear defeat in his voice. We hear later from Keith Barwell that he was offered more help but refused. Just look at the games after Jim, that's how far it went down and how far we have to get back from. It was a no-brainer from the new board.

The DOR is a tough, pressurised position.I hope Jim hasnt done himself too much damage in those last months.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Brookes is off
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
15 February, 2018 11:50
Quote:
SaintMaul
Hltw - the world's not binary i.e. Jim good. Chris bad!
Sacking a DoR mid-season was my bigger concern. If Jim was going to be sacked do it end of last season or end of this. The uncertainty and lack of leadership hinders recruitment and increases unsettled players which increases likelihood of players leaving. Both have happened IMHO.

Have a read of Gaffney's latest comments in the Chronicle and the leadership and coherence in relation to recruitment is both confused and sadly entirely predictable.

Having said that Boyd is an exciting prospect (back to my point the world's not binary). I just don't expect miracles next season with the forward pack he has to work with - unless we recruit well there.


Ok youíre more conservative than me, thatís fair enough.


I would counter that had Jim stayed, Saints would have slipped further back right into a relegation dogfight, more uncertainty etc

At last Gaffney has shored things up and is a well known name to attract players and then of course Boyd.

 
Longers
Re: Brookes is off
Longers (IP Logged)
15 February, 2018 16:45
But surely, all this argument goes to prove is that the world is binary - at least as regards Saints coaches?

Jim goes, to be replaced, temporarily by Gaffney. Gaffney will go and whilst on his way will talk to Boyd as he comes in. How more binary can it get?

I really couldn't care why Brookes is leaving. He was a good player, once, but for some reason we did not get the best out of him. He went downhill with the rest.

But this is just one element of the old argument regarding the elephant - which has gone a bit quiet.

We lose Ethan, due to stupid selectorial decisions.
We allow Alex to - in my opinion - go backwards
We allow Paul Hill - in my opinion - go backwards
We recruit two very ordinary props in Ford-Robinson and Van Wyk. They may turn into good players, who can tell. Though with the current record, I would not put my house or shirt on it.

Intersting to see how the front row goes next season!

 
Brackleysaint
Re: Brookes is off
Brackleysaint (IP Logged)
15 February, 2018 17:26
Not saying current forwards coach is the man to take us forward, but could it have been Jim who was reluctant to change things and not play the likes of Ethan, it was mentioned that Dorian was pushing him to put Harry in the team and he wouldn't initially?

 
Happywifehappylife
Re: Brookes is off
Happywifehappylife (IP Logged)
15 February, 2018 19:32
As supporters we can only presume what goes on - we'll never really know & it may be far different to what we all assume

 
Whiston Saint
Re: Brookes is off
Whiston Saint (IP Logged)
15 February, 2018 23:36
The current Forwards coach is tasked with developing our forwards. All our props have gone backwards and seem to lack technique. A 9-5 mentality is unacceptable at this level.

Hopefully our new DOR will bring in some fresh support.

 
Walks11
Re: Brookes is off
Walks11 (IP Logged)
16 February, 2018 08:07
Itís also down to the players Whiston. A coach can only do so much it should be a collaboration. The players have to invest time and thought into their own development.

We assume Dorian is the root of the problem due to the number of players who have gone backwards but the players must take part responsibility. His group methods may not be to the liking of some but that doesnít stop individuals doing their own extra work to strive to improve. Are they all doing that?


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