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Some help please?
HRsaints fan (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 16:33
First off, I have to confess that I am not - in any way, shape, or form - an expert at anything that goes on on the rugby field. I am, though, a lover of the game itself, and as I watched the Scottish "loose forwards" (to use a southern-hemisphere term) make their opposite numbers look pedestrian in comparison, I wondered if we are seeing a change in the physical requirements and make up of these vitally important roles on the pitch.

After the Scotland vs England game, I looked up the details of the respective players and was intrigued by the difference in approach.

Scotland had John Barclay at 6 (6ft 2" and 16 stone), Hamish Watson at 7 (6ft 1" and 16 stone) and Ryan Wilson at 8 (6ft 3" and 16.5 stone). England by comparison had our Courtney at 6 (6ft 7" and 18 stone), Robshaw at 7 (6ft 2" and 17.3 stone) and Hughes at 8 (6ft 5" and 18 stone).

There is a marked difference in height and weight and yet, at no time did this seem to favour the English. Is this a one-off or is it a fact that the modern game, and particularly the changes in the referring of the breakdown that came into effect this season, has now meant that slightly smaller, lighter and quicker players are in the ascendency?

If so, and I know there are many who clamour for the signing of a monster at 8, does that mean that the likes of Brussow (6 ft and 16 stone), Harrison (6ft 2" and 16 stone), Ludlam (6ft 2" and 15.5 stone) and Nutley (6ft and 16.5 stone) might be more favoured going forwards? I know that they also need to have the requisite skills to play in the top flight but from what I have seen of them all, I would hazard a guess that they do.

By the way, our new DoR in the first game of the new Super Rugby season (which the Hurricanes lost by the way) had Gareth Evans at 6 (6ft 2" and 16.5 stone), Ardie Savea at 7 (6ft 3" and 16 stone) and Brad Shields at 8 (6ft 3" and 17.5 stone). Just saying like.........

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Some help please?
Stockers (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 17:05
Good question HR.

Hamish Watson demonstrated the virtue of a good proper open side flanker and that it still has relevance in this modern age of behemoths. However, you do need more beef in the front 5 to compensate although the Scottish locks and hookercarried well in the loose and eventually the English pack look tired and unable to keep up with the pace of the game.

It's a fine balance but I'm hoping Young Mr Brussouw will demonstrate the same virtues as Watson for the rest of this season and beyond.

Rugby played at pace! Lovely!

 
Walks11
Re: Some help please?
Walks11 (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 18:50
The problem was England failed to get numbers in to clear the ruck. They were going in in 1’s and 2’s failing to move the Scotland back rower. should have adapted to throw a couple more in to clear it out. Trouble is that compromises the number of runners you have available.

 
Scrummy
Re: Some help please?
Scrummy (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 19:54
This is not a new problem for England v Scotland, losing the breakdown and losing the match. I agree we needed a 7 in the back row and clearly missed that role.

 
LeicesterSaint
Re: Some help please?
LeicesterSaint (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 21:47
For me all about the top two inches - whatever the composition of a back row (or team in general) within the usual normal ranges of height and weight there will be priorities chosen. For example the traditional scavenger is less useful in a lineout and typically less useful carrying in heavy traffic. As highlighted the mix of the whole pack is important.

However with the right 'rugby brains' and leadership a team can adapt to a certain extent - England should have adapted more quickly, if necessary target the pain in the ass opposition 7, make sure there's enough support etc.

 
Eif Jones
Re: Some help please?
Eif Jones (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 03:02
Stockers, don't forget that Barclay can play at 6 7 or 8 and he was the player, not Watson, who stole most crucial England ball at the rucks. This board knows my view on England's no 6, he's a 2nd row and picking him at 6 resulted in giving England what they deserved, a roasting in the scrums.

Barclay has given the Scarlets great service over the past years and they will miss him when he returns home next season.

 
SaintSurrey
Re: Some help please?
SaintSurrey (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 06:54
Owens gave a few “holding on” penalties in the first few minutes. Scotland noted this and then changed their gameplan to compete more at the breakdown. England didn’t . The key thing is not size, height, weight, it’s thinking on your feet and adapting to what’s in front of you

 
Walks11
Re: Some help please?
Walks11 (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 08:51
Quote:
Eif Jones
Stockers, don't forget that Barclay can play at 6 7 or 8 and he was the player, not Watson, who stole most crucial England ball at the rucks. This board knows my view on England's no 6, he's a 2nd row and picking him at 6 resulted in giving England what they deserved, a roasting in the scrums.
Barclay has given the Scarlets great service over the past years and they will miss him when he returns home next season.

Courts selection at 6 relies heavily on having a 7 and a fit no. 8. we had neither which exposes Courts positional frailties. If we had a strong 7 (not sure if we do as yet, Underhill potentially) and Vunipola we get away with Courts at 6

We were playing 2 out of position and unmatchfit no.8 so it was a huge risk which backfired

 
SaintsAsh
Re: Some help please?
SaintsAsh (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 11:47
Scotland moved the ball well and our backrowers were slow to the breakdown. On our ball we either moved the ball away from our back row or they were slow to the ball. When the ball was away from the back row the Scotland team across the board was better at the breakdown.

 
tedge
Re: Some help please?
tedge (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 14:28
Defeats happen to the best occasionally. England will be back !

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Some help please?
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 16:43
Hughes does naff all apart from carries a bit IMHO

If he wasn’t a big unit he wouldn’t be selected, flatters to deceive


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