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Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
Abington Adam (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 11:52
Pondering the improved yet imperfect display on Saturday, who's coming and who's going, I've been giving some thought to who is a nailed on starter for our first game of next season and where we still have gaps. It's just my take but it may be an issue that is worthy of debate:

15 - Mallinder? If Harry's bright future is anywhere then it seems to be at full back.
14 - ??? Collins? Ace? Someone else?
13 - Horne
12 - Francis
11 - Naiyaravoro
10 - Biggar
9 - Reinach

1 - Waller? Can Alex kick on again or will Ben Franks get serious gametime?
2 - Heywood and/or Hartley? Much will depend on Dylan's recovery
3 - Paul Hill put his hand up on Saturday, Ben Franks can play TH as well

4 - Ratuniyarawa
5 - Barrow
6 - Gibson
7 - Harrison
8 - If major recruitment is to be made anywhere then the back of the scrum is surely the place. Eadie played well on Saturday but can he play a starring role?

The back three, the front row and 8 still look under-resourced. Hopefully recruitment is not finished yet.

 
Nath-coys
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
Nath-coys (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 12:08
Loose head - we have Waller, Davis, Trinder
Tighthead - we have hill, JFR, painter
Franks can play both. Believe he is more of a TH though.
Not sure there will be much more recruitment there, I may be wrong. We want our scrum to be strong, not give loads of penalties away and provide quick ball on our put in. I don't think we will look to resource it so heavily we become a dominant scrum tbh.

Although performances have not massively turned around, our scrum has become less of a penalty machine of late.
Shows you don't need the superstars too do it.
Just more coaching and emphasis on getting it right.

With a selection of Lawes, barrow, Api, ribbans our second row shouldn't be underpowered. Add to that moon and young Coles. We are okay there. If day goes, may see another come in.

Need a number 8 still. Kiwi that isn't going to make there World Cup squad or a unit of a South African.
T is a 7, and had a cracking game there on Saturday.
Eadie played well, and it will be good competition if someone else comes in.
6 we are okay. Think we might see some of lawes at 6.

Need another Scrum half, not a starter but we need depth there.

10-13 we are fine.

I think one more back 3 player will come In. I'd like young and English, but probably a cheap SH option I would think.
I would love for us to make a big move for Cockanisiga from Irish. Don't think we will though.
I think Boyd will like Mallinder and his skill set, they love there 15 to be able to play make.
I think he will look to improve Harry's threat ball in hand.

1. Waller
2. Haywood/Hartley
3. Hill
4. Barrow
5. Api
6. Courts
7. Tei
8. New player/ eaddie
9. Mitchell
10. Biggar
11. Naiyaravirro
12. Francis
13. Horne
14. Collins/ new signing
15. Mallinder.

 
tedge
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
tedge (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 12:08
Wood will still be here and you've not mentioned Brussow. Perhaps James Craig will be in and Lawes certainly will

 
ajack
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
ajack (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 12:10
No starting spot for longarm? Personally I would hope no one has a guaranteed starting spot and everyone has the chance to earn one.

 
alwayshopeful
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
alwayshopeful (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 12:18
ooo good game

15 - Harry / Ace
14 - Collins /
13 - Horne / Symonds
12 - Francis /
11 - Naiyaravoro

10 - Biggar
9 - Cobus

8 - Eadie
7 - Tei
6 - Gibson
5 - Barrow
4 - Courts

3 - Franks
2 - Mikey
1 - Waller


I think we are definately still in the market for a big, ball carrying no8 and a Wing / FB...

also, I assume Symonds is really a 13? Could Horne play 12 - if so we could see Horne / Symonds in the centres... that would be very punchy!

 
Duncan Keene
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
Duncan Keene (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 12:21
I've only seen Hill play in the flesh a few times but each time he's been fantastic, i have no idea how he hasn't been first choice all year for you. That back line looks very good. Barrow and Gibson should be good for some penalties though!

 
HerbieSaint
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
HerbieSaint (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 12:33
I'd prefer to start the season with Lawes and one of Api or Ribbans as our locks and ease Barrow in to the team over time. That said if he plays very well in preseason and the warm up games, who knows.

Gibson and Harrison as our first choice flankers looks a great call - they were exceptional on Saturday, and played exactly as flankers in their respective positions should play.

Eadie looked good too (and I think there's more to come from him when he gets a run without injury) but as others have said, we need an additional specialist 8 (ideally an international quality player). I still like the idea of Samu coming back for a couple of seasons.

 
andysaint
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
andysaint (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 12:55
Quote:
Abington Adam
Pondering the improved yet imperfect display on Saturday, who's coming and who's going, I've been giving some thought to who is a nailed on starter for our first game of next season and where we still have gaps. It's just my take but it may be an issue that is worthy of debate:
15 - Mallinder? If Harry's bright future is anywhere then it seems to be at full back.
14 - ??? Collins? Ace? Someone else?
13 - Horne
12 - Francis
11 - Naiyaravoro
10 - Biggar
9 - Reinach

1 - Waller? Can Alex kick on again or will Ben Franks get serious gametime?
2 - Heywood and/or Hartley? Much will depend on Dylan's recovery
3 - Paul Hill put his hand up on Saturday, Ben Franks can play TH as well

4 - Ratuniyarawa
5 - Barrow
6 - Gibson
7 - Harrison
8 - If major recruitment is to be made anywhere then the back of the scrum is surely the place. Eadie played well on Saturday but can he play a starring role?

The back three, the front row and 8 still look under-resourced. Hopefully recruitment is not finished yet.

There are still a few too many ifs and buts for anyone to be nailed on starters bar a couple.

I reckon that Harrison, Biggar, Hartley, Lawes, Gibson and Horne are our standout players.

Mallinder has had a bit of a bad season. Exposed at 10 and 15 at times and now injured.
Collins desperately needs a run of games to stake a claim.
Francis has had a stop start year and I do not think is the solution at 12.
Naiyaravoro I have not seen play.
Reinach is good for certain games but not so good with others.
Eadie still has a lot to prove.
Waller, Haywood and Api all good club players but if we are to make significant strides forwards, we need more quality than that.
Ribbans has been in and out of the side and has been played out of position. He's not made as much progress as I thought he would.
Brussow - Too soon to tell and it's only fair he is given a full pre-season first.
Wood - Not done enough at all this season.

Whilst Saturday was a wonderful game and result, I still think that the quality of the squad is not where it needs to be and I would be surprised if it is at the level required next season. We still need another season over overhaul in my opinion and quite a few need a big season next year.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
Abington Adam (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 13:10
I somehow omitted Courtney...I blame multitasking!

 
Nath-coys
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
Nath-coys (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 13:42
Francis will have a good year next year. With a platform to play from he is a good 2nd playmaker.
Not a highlight reel player but does the basic things well to make things tick.
See first try against Leicester.

Waller has won a Prem. Not a international agreed, but you need good club players that are going to be available all season.
Api was crucial for us on Saturday, constantly taking the ball at 1st receiver and making yards over the gainline.
With another pre season under his belt I think he will kick in next year again.

To sustain a challenge in the Prem you need a squad of players that are consistent over the course of the season. Look at Exeter. Some top talent thrown in, but so many of the players are club players.
But importantly they are coached very well.

After this year I don't think we will need another overhaul like the last 2 years.
But our recruitment will need to be proactive and will need to have a plan too it.
We should already be sounding out players to replace players we think will leave next year. That's what is required to keep the squad fresh and on top of its game.

There are never guarantees but I think Boyd will do this.

 
Walks11
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
Walks11 (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 13:51
obviously only sounding out those NOT playing in the Prem Nath, and those that are we will wait until January (Sm14)

 
Eif Jones
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
Eif Jones (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 13:51
If the selections are as in this thread then why oh why are we so poor this season.

 
tedge
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
tedge (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 13:57
Quote:
Eif Jones
If the selections are as in this thread then why oh why are we so poor this season.

Poor coaching

 
MarchingIn
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
MarchingIn (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 14:08
I suspect that remaining recruitment heavily depends on budget, partly determined by unanswered questions about who stays so it's hard to say what the starting 15 could or should look like until we know the final squad.

My personal view is that Boyd should stick to a fairly small squad and leave some salary cap in reserve at the start of the season. I suspect Boyd will shape up to play a fairly set piece focussed Northern Hemisphere style in the front 5, but complement that with a mobile back row, and a combination of strong carriers and playmakers in the backs.

With 2019 being a World Cup year, there are probably a number of 30 year old players at the top of their game sticking where they are in the hope of playing in it. Once the likely squads start to emerge towards the end of the season, some very good players will find out the likely last shot at a world cup isn't happening for them, and that's a great recruitment opportunity.

The only real 'expectation' of Boyd from my perspective (and I suspect, many others) is to do what he has said he wants to do - get Saints playing some exciting rugby. If he can show some early glimpses of that & not be in the bottom 4 at the halfway point, it'll do me. That's a fairly low pressure starting point, so I'd be happy to see a measured approach to recruitment rather than a knee-jerk grab for 40 stone of loosehead and number 8 some are suggesting is required.

 
195Rich
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
195Rich (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 14:18
I'm thinking we will see one of Lawes or Ribbans at flanker next year with Api and Barrow in 2nd Row. Gives us a huge back 5 and lineout alternatives. Not sure then how to fit in Brussow, Gibson, Wood and Harrison.
Could Ribbans be turned into a monster No.8 to allow the existing flankers to play at 6 & 7?

 
alwayshopeful
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
alwayshopeful (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 14:36
Ribbans.. No8... interesting thought.. he is certainly agile enough and a huge unit..

 
HerbieSaint
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
HerbieSaint (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 14:50
Quote:
Eif
If the selections are as in this thread then why oh why are we so poor this season.

(Sm156)

 
andysaint
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
andysaint (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 14:55
Iíd want to see Api have more games like he did against Tigers more consistently. Heís been quiet for such a big unit too regularly.

Nothing wrong to have good club players like Waller and Haywood in the squad but Corbs and Hartley take it to another level. I still think we have been weak at loosehead since we lost Corbs. Hartleys game time is a worry so we need to be strong at hooker. Hopefully Marshall can push on as we need 3 quality 2ís

 
Stevie Myler's right boot
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
16 April, 2018 15:04
Quote:
andysaint
Iíd want to see Api have more games like he did against Tigers more consistently. Heís been quiet for such a big unit too regularly.
Nothing wrong to have good club players like Waller and Haywood in the squad but Corbs and Hartley take it to another level. I still think we have been weak at loosehead since we lost Corbs. Hartleys game time is a worry so we need to be strong at hooker. Hopefully Marshall can push on as we need 3 quality 2ís

Unfortunately Hartleyís best days in a Saints shirt are behind him - he hasnít been great for us for years - Iíd rather travel Mikey

 
fair_weather_fan
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
fair_weather_fan (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 19:10
Rotation and injury cover requires a squad. The nominal first XV might never take the field.

Props and Hooker have been discussed endlessly, but for example locks we have Api, Barrow, Ribbans, Courts, plus Alex Coles in the academy. Courts can play 6 and it might be a judgement call, as it is for england, if the front V is heavy enough with Courts at lock. The there is James Craig, the enigma that is. I dont know if he has a contract for next season but he has the ability, he just needs to stay on the pitch.

What we do know about Boyd is that he is likely to play all of them at some point

In the back row we have Gibbo, Woody, T, Heinrich. Plus Courts. At No 8 we currently have only Mitch and if Samu isnt coming we need a recruit.

AS it happens, the year out of the Champions Cup might benefit us for rebuilding as there are more game opportunities for the squad. Falcons and Sharks could both find it hard next year (Sm156)

 
fleetg
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
fleetg (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 20:25
If we were to give someone a go at 8, I would rather see Api than Ribbans : having said that I would rather we sign a proper monster of an established 8.

 
Walks11
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
Walks11 (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 21:13
We could be radical and sign a number 8 to play number 8 rather than trying to convert someone. Itís a specialist position and Api as skilful as he is, is not a no. 8. Not quick or explosive enough from the base of a scrum IMO. Leave him be at 2nd row heís doing ok. Same for Ribbans.

Think the past few weeks have proven above all else playing people out of position generally doesnít work

 
Scrummy
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
Scrummy (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 21:45
Samu wasnít an 8 but he learned quite well. Api or Ribbans could be a good call.

 
andysaint
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
andysaint (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 22:32
We saw on Saturday with Tom Youngís what happens when you donít pririoritse the basics of a position.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 22:34
Devante Onajaife fancies a move back to 8? Donít know his play well enough to understand why he moved to prop. Highly rated prospect apparently

 
Walks11
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
Walks11 (IP Logged)
16 April, 2018 23:21
Quote:
Scrummy
Samu wasnít an 8 but he learned quite well. Api or Ribbans could be a good call.

chalk and cheese.. Samu has incredible skills for a big man and with due respect to the other two they don't come close

 
SaintsAsh
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
SaintsAsh (IP Logged)
17 April, 2018 07:33
For me this is the strongest team for next year with the current signings.


1) Waller
2) Hartley
3) Franks

4)Lawes
5)Barrow

6) Gibson
7) Harrison
8) Eadie

9) Mitchel
10) Biggar

12) Francis
13) Horne

11) Naiarovoro
14) Tuala
15) Mallinder

 
Walks11
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
Walks11 (IP Logged)
17 April, 2018 08:15
Quote:
SaintsAsh
For me this is the strongest team for next year with the current signings.

1) Waller
2) Hartley
3) Franks

4)Lawes
5)Barrow

6) Gibson
7) Harrison
8) Eadie

9) Mitchel
10) Biggar

12) Francis
13) Horne

11) Naiarovoro
14) Tuala
15) Mallinder

Mitchell over Reinach, inexperienced thatís a big call. Not questioning the potential but he is unproven yet to say heís first choice. Reinach didnít play too badly on Saturday, I think he will be better next season

 
Nath-coys
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
Nath-coys (IP Logged)
17 April, 2018 10:11
Specialist Number 8 please.
It really is a specialist position.

 
ajack
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
ajack (IP Logged)
17 April, 2018 11:14
McCaw could go from openside to 8, Eales played 8 and second row for Australia, as did Andrews for SA, as did Samu for saints, not sure you need a specialist 8 if someone has good skills and are playing in a good side.

 
Walks11
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
Walks11 (IP Logged)
17 April, 2018 11:26
Quote:
ajack
McCaw could go from openside to 8, Eales played 8 and second row for Australia, as did Andrews for SA, as did Samu for saints, not sure you need a specialist 8 if someone has good skills and are playing in a good side.

again chalk and cheese, you are talking about legends of the game in Eales & McCaw. As I said above Samu has freakish skills for a big man and Ribbans and Api are not in this league. As a stop gap for a game maybe but not as our new no.8.

Retreating scrum on our 5 metre line you need specialist skills to pick up and explode to make ground. This skill should not be underestimated

 
ajack
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
ajack (IP Logged)
17 April, 2018 14:06
There are numerous other examples just picked a few who could play 8 at the very highest level but it was not their preferred position.

 
Stilo
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
Stilo (IP Logged)
17 April, 2018 14:59
Spot on, couldn't agree with you more

 
Stilo
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
Stilo (IP Logged)
17 April, 2018 15:05
Interesting that nobody,including me, picked Burrell.
We need another good hooker & a specialist 8

 
Walks11
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
Walks11 (IP Logged)
17 April, 2018 17:56
Quote:
ajack
There are numerous other examples just picked a few who could play 8 at the very highest level but it was not their preferred position.

I am not saying it can't be done but I still don't think either have the necessary attributes to be converted. I wouldn't want to go into next season with either as our first choice no. 8

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
Matthew (IP Logged)
17 April, 2018 19:54
Thought a 12/13 of Luther and Horne was looking good at the start of this season. Plenty of scope for rotation in the centres, methinks.



ACTUAL TRAINING FOOTAGE FROM
BEHIND THE SCENES AT SARACENS:
http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/37800000/Scrooge-McDuck-gif-mickey-and-friends-37815657-245-188.gif

 
SaintsAsh
Re: Starting XV in Game 1 of 18-19
SaintsAsh (IP Logged)
18 April, 2018 09:01
Quote:
Walks11
Quote:
SaintsAsh
For me this is the strongest team for next year with the current signings.

1) Waller
2) Hartley
3) Franks

4)Lawes
5)Barrow

6) Gibson
7) Harrison
8) Eadie

9) Mitchel
10) Biggar

12) Francis
13) Horne

11) Naiarovoro
14) Tuala
15) Mallinder

Mitchell over Reinach, inexperienced thatís a big call. Not questioning the potential but he is unproven yet to say heís first choice. Reinach didnít play too badly on Saturday, I think he will be better next season

Yup, for me next year we are not going to set the prem alight. I think it will be a transition season, I think Alex is ready but needs regular game time to become top class. Lets use our transition season to transition. That's what I would do anyhow, but the coaches will hopefully know the players better than me. smiling smiley


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