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MESSAGES->author
England Squad
higgy365 (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 08:23
Hartley and Lawes our only reps. Bit harsh on Francis who is playing well imo.

Elsewhere, Ashton & Tuilagi both in but no room for Cipriani!

[www.premiershiprugby.com]

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: England Squad
SaintMaul (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 08:50
No Haskell.

That is a kick in the teeth for James after taking a pay cut to stay available for England.

 
Hantsaintsrus4
Re: England Squad
Hantsaintsrus4 (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 08:57
Right decision on Haskell,Ashton and Cipriani. Now starting to look forward to next year, earthquakes allowing.

 
Walks11
Re: England Squad
Walks11 (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 09:25
Ford has been playing well and Farell is an automatic pick at either 10 or 12 so it sort of makes sense. The media are in meltdown unsurprisingly. I would still be amazed if he doesn't make the final cut for world cup if he maintains his form throughout this season.

Some odd ones, has Lozowski had a lot of game time to warrant being in, similarly Nowell, Shields injured so why not look at someone else

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: England Squad
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 10:27
Only someone in complete moron mode would drop Cipriani


He saved Jones's job over the summer.....


I dunno itís just very depressing that a year before the World Cup no-one has any idea what is our best team, in pretty much every shirt 1-15



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20/09/2018 10:50 by Wilson Pickett.

 
andysaint
Re: England Squad
andysaint (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 10:58
For once, I agree with Wilson. That is an absolutely bonkers decision not to include Cipriani. Ben Teo and Chris Ashton have not played any games yet this season yet Cipriani is doing very well in an in form Gloucester side. The continued selection of Brown again mystifies. I am a fan of Jones but he is inviting pressure on himself IMO.

 
Saint Ted
Re: England Squad
Saint Ted (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 10:58
This is purely my opinion and only based on feeling...

When I chatted to Hask after the match, he didnít come across as his usual self clearly had something on his mind, Iíve not spoken to him after a match before, only in a non rugby environment, so not sure if this is the norm, Eddie was at the match, Iím thinking they may have had a chat.

As I say, this is purely based on feeling/circumstances not facts

 
Walks11
Re: England Squad
Walks11 (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 11:01
Quote:
Wilson Pickett
Only someone in complete moron mode would drop Cipriani

He saved Jones's job over the summer.....


I dunno itís just very depressing that a year before the World Cup no-one has any idea what is our best team, in pretty much every shirt 1-15

Echoes of last world cup.. Went in not knowing who are centre partnership would be or backrow. all sounds very similar

 
TringSaint
Re: England Squad
TringSaint (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 11:14
or maybe he is giving those players the opportunity to prove something. being a shoe-in doesnt necessarily make you play your best, so keep them hanging and they will deliver if they have the ability

still, barring injuries, to be this unsettled so close to a RWC is not good - under Woodward england were very settled - they had a core group of players who could be integrated into any '15' and had both specialists and multi-position players in key roles so could switch the plan on a sixpence.

Under EJ, i just dont see where the plan is, but i sure as hell wont be underestimating them come the competition, as i am sure they will find form, even if not fully hitting their bootstraps!

 
Hantsaintsrus4
Re: England Squad
Hantsaintsrus4 (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 12:07
As Jones has repeatedly stated if you pick Cips it has to be as a number one to run the show. Dyls and Farrel would have to step aside. Only a moron would say only a moron would not pick Cips.

 
Saint Stokey
Re: England Squad
Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 12:30
there's running the show and being captain.

If the ball is played out of the set piece or breakdown and fed to the 10, its only right that the 10 calls the plays. Thats the nature of the position.

As for deciding whether to go for the corner or posts, that's the Captain's call and whoever is at 10 ir irrelevant.

for me, Cips has to start, as does Dylan as Captain, as does Farrell at 12.

 
singinglady
Re: England Squad
singinglady (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 12:33
Tuilagi in? Am I the only person who cannot get this? Prepares to be shouted down....

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: England Squad
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 13:20
Quote:
Hantsaintsrus4
As Jones has repeatedly stated if you pick Cips it has to be as a number one to run the show. Dyls and Farrel would have to step aside. Only a moron would say only a moron would not pick Cips.


I didnt say Eddie is a moron. He isnít. Someone can behave stupidly but not be stupid - like Danny after a drink. Or any of us at any one time or other in our life.


Your post makes no sense? Dylan and Farrell step aside?

Dylan is a hooker

Farrell has played 90% of his England games over the last 2 years at 12

Cipriani 10
Farrell 12

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: England Squad
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 13:21
Quote:
singinglady
Tuilagi in? Am I the only person who cannot get this? Prepares to be shouted down....


Iíve not been his biggest fan but I have to admit he looks sharper than he has done for years. He made a break a couple of weeks ago with an extra yard of pace Iíve not seen in a long time.....

 
TringSaint
Re: England Squad
TringSaint (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 13:35
Tuliagi makes sense if he is to be used correctly to draw defenders or punch holes - but he also then needs to pass!
therein lies the potential banana skin!

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: England Squad
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 14:36
Quote:
TringSaint
Tuliagi makes sense if he is to be used correctly to draw defenders or punch holes - but he also then needs to pass!
therein lies the potential banana skin!



the difference in skillset between Manu and Nonu shows the difference in youth coaching between England and NZ.....

 
shiversaint
Re: England Squad
shiversaint (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 14:46
Quote:
Hantsaintsrus4
As Jones has repeatedly stated if you pick Cips it has to be as a number one to run the show. Dyls and Farrel would have to step aside. Only a moron would say only a moron would not pick Cips.

Wot?!

A 10/12 combo of Cips and Faz would be electrifying. Not like Cipriani needs to be a captain either (is that what you are insinuating?), last I heard it's Heinz down at Glos and that's running perfectly well as we've seen.

 
Saint Stokey
Re: England Squad
Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 16:19
The only reason i can fathom for EJ not picking Cips is because, playing for Gloucester, it was assumed that he was South African.*

 
tboullem
Re: England Squad
Houghton Saint (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 16:45
Cipriani is a wild card, brilliant on his day but not always reliable. Do you win a World Cup with wild cards or do you win it with pragmatism ? EJ clearly has his own ideas which for a long time proved successful with his England team. Now things have become a little more difficult with a series of defeats so what does he do ?
Stick with his principles or change with the World Cup a year away and look to mercurial players to perform at that level game in game out ?

England victory in 2003 was not down to scintillating rugby, it was down to professionalism and sheer bloody mindedness at times. Ditto England in 1966 for that matter !

If Cipriani can perform at a high level for Gloucester between now and the 6N, he is in with a shout but for the moment EJ and his jury are out on the matter.

Haskell will have to perform at an incredibly high level in order to get onto the plane to Japan; he knows that, EJ knows that, so lets see how the season develops.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20/09/2018 17:09 by Mobbs.

 
TringSaint
Re: England Squad
TringSaint (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 17:31
Interesting that EJ mentions the media hype surrounding Cipriani as being over blown and that others are performing far better but not getting the column inches.

Personally, I think he is right.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: England Squad
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 17:57
Mobbs I would see it in a similar way but from a different angle

Jones is under pressure and picking combinations that are safe.... to keep his job

If they get done in the autumn, heís probably a goner


I find it depressing because Iím not excited by this squad at all...... and having got Japan tickets I may have to buy a Japan shirt to get behind another side as well!

 
andysaint
Re: England Squad
andysaint (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 18:43
For Haskell I think he has done ok so far for Northampton but I donít get the impression that Northampton is a fashionable phrase at the moment. Dylan and Lawes are shoe ins but as a side we are trying to find an identity and trying to kick start the club again. Performances have been better than results but I think itís hard to get recognised in a Saints jersey currently. I believe that will change over the season and Haskell should be looking to the 6 Nations rather than Autumn Internationals.

The England squad like Saints lacks identity. Some selections are baffling, is there a clear plan?

 
Lamont4Saints
Re: England Squad
Lamont4Saints (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 18:47
I really have been frustrated with Jones over the last year or so and yet again heís not made sensible selections.

I think we are in a worse state than we were last time round.

We have props that canít scrimmage. World class locks (that usually end up out of position).

Robshaw still being so average and no other nailed on flankers. A no. 8 whose never fit and to be honest , isnít as good as people think.

2 samey 9s with the form 9 not having many caps over the last few years.

A 10 whoís gif no bottle, a 10 playing 12. We havenít got a back up 10 or 12 with any experience in this squad.

No nailed on 13, 14, 15 or 11.

Really dissatisfied with what jones hasnít done this last year and a bit.

 
Eif Jones
Re: England Squad
Eif Jones (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 18:54
Just watch our game at Gloucester again. Cipriani had a good 1st half, but usually games are won and lost in the 2nd half. He all but disappeared in that 2nd half when Saints did put pressure on Glos. That's why I wouldn't pick him.

Eddie J was in the same row as me in the Barwell last weekend, I would have thought an international selector would need to have a better spot than that, maybe he gets his own private viewing of all games mid-week.

 
andysaint
Re: England Squad
andysaint (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 19:02
Sam Underhill really should be involved.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: England Squad
Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 19:29
Brian OíDriscoll on Twitter who should be objective and understand back play, leadership etc

ďIf they are all fit my @EnglandRugby 3/4 line would probably be Farrell, Manu & Slade and not having Cipriani even in the training mix or as a bench option is lunacy but then Iím a Padraig just smiling on at it...Ē

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: England Squad
higgy365 (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 21:35
Interesting, andysaint- I would say that Haskell hasnít hit the international bar for us yet. Not that heís been bad, just not delivered to that level so far and him not being selected is quite understandable. Totally agree that we are in an unfashionable phase as a club just now.

 
fleetg
Re: England Squad
fleetg (IP Logged)
20 September, 2018 21:38
Poor Eddie having that seat !

 
tboullem
Re: England Squad
Houghton Saint (IP Logged)
21 September, 2018 06:19
Wilson, I agree. EJ will be under pressure to win every game from now on as he has had plenty of time to experiment. The bunker mentality is not far away !

 
TringSaint
Re: England Squad
TringSaint (IP Logged)
21 September, 2018 08:45
but what choice do england have?
jettison EJ and who fills the void?
any new head coach would want to pick his leaders, so you could see Dylan no longer being captain (and maybe not even in the squad), other long-serving players may get ousted as they seek to find a new style quickly and you end up at the world cup with an inexperienced team with no natural leaders trying to play in a new style!

EJ may not be getting the best from the team at the moment, but to change after the AI's would be lunacy (better to have made the chop in the summer). So unless england get spanked in all AI matches, i cant see him going anywhere.

 
LeicesterSaint
Re: England Squad
LeicesterSaint (IP Logged)
21 September, 2018 09:53
Reading between some lines I think the issue is that Cipriani likes to run the show (not as captain, just calling the backline) versus Ford who almost seems to like having Faz at 12 to do that job so he can concentrate on what he does so well, draw defenders and pick the passes. Ford's been off form for a decent while but is looking really good so far this season (linked to the change of coaching?) so happy with him at 10 to start albeit he does give up a lot of yards in defence.

Hope Cipriani keeps his head down and keeps doing his thing at Gloucester, we'll see how he looks when Gloucester are under pressure up front (Sarries I think this weekend which should be useful).

 
tigerburnie
Re: England Squad
tigerburnie (IP Logged)
21 September, 2018 20:00
These selections could be to try and force players to up their game, not just Cips, but also no Dan Cole, been a while since England turned out without a Tiger in the pack.

 
Hantsaintsrus4
Re: England Squad
Hantsaintsrus4 (IP Logged)
22 September, 2018 07:51
Jones could do something radical and play our best 10 Faz and sort the centres.

 
Brackleysaint
Re: England Squad
Brackleysaint (IP Logged)
22 September, 2018 09:22
Quote:
Hantsaintsrus4
Jones could do something radical and play our best 10 Faz and sort the centres.

+1

 
Lamont4Saints
Re: England Squad
Lamont4Saints (IP Logged)
22 September, 2018 18:08
If we make be Farrell to 10 (which I think we should) then you need a new 12, we donít have anyone else to play 12. Another of jonesí failings.

In fact if Farrell gets injured, we canít play ford at 10 because heís flaky and not that good without Farrell covering for him half the time and weíd need a new centre combo.


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