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MESSAGES->author
RFU: Relegation will definitely happen this season
SaintMaul (IP Logged)
05 December, 2018 10:19

 
Duckonstilts
Re: RFU: Relegation will definitely happen this season
Duckonstilts (IP Logged)
05 December, 2018 10:27
Good

 
twsaint
Re: RFU: Relegation will definitely happen this season
twsaint (IP Logged)
05 December, 2018 11:14
Melville is Interim CEO of the RFU, it's not up to him either.One man firing from the hip is not the RFU.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2018 11:23 by twsaint.

 
tedge
Re: RFU: Relegation will definitely happen this season
tedge (IP Logged)
05 December, 2018 11:21
Unless the Premiership is prepared to break away from the RFU (very unlikely), they won't be able to do it without the RFU's agreement

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: RFU: Relegation will definitely happen this season
SaintMaul (IP Logged)
05 December, 2018 11:29
The irony being if I were Premiership Rugby I'd keep relegation whereas if I were the RFU I'd be happy to end relegation. Why?

Why it's in the interests of Premiership Rugby to keep relegation:
- Relegation significantly adds to interest. Super Rugby crowds die off when their team are out of the reckoning whereas crowds grow where there is relegation at stake and TV put relegation fight games on air so it makes it more saleable for TV rights
- It pushes all teams to push as hard as they can rather than having games against teams that are already only half-interested come mid-season.
- Realistically it's a revolving 13 team top tier with London Irish so if there is a parachute payment for the dropped club it would solve the financial risk whilst maintaining the illusion of genuine competition given the gulf between the Premiership and Championship

Why the RFU and England team might benefit from ring-fencing:
- ring-fencing gives the RFU more chance to get good rest time for internationals. The English Lions played significantly more rugby last season than their Celtic counterparts and the England team performances nose-dived
- it would encourage young player selection and development which assists the national team

 
tedge
Re: RFU: Relegation will definitely happen this season
tedge (IP Logged)
05 December, 2018 11:56
As a Saints supporter I can well do without the tension and apprehension of critical relegation fixtures ! I would watch the Saints wherever they were positioned in a ringfenced league and if that meant watching matches with nothing at stake they might well be more entertaining and certainly more relaxed from a spectator point of view.

 
Brackleysaint
Re: RFU: Relegation will definitely happen this season
Brackleysaint (IP Logged)
05 December, 2018 12:07
I wonder what the concencus is of Rugby League supporters as to whether Super League has had a dramatic effect on quality of games and attendances in the divisions below.
I assume there is still no relegation?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2018 12:26 by Brackleysaint.

 
twsaint
Re: RFU: Relegation will definitely happen this season
twsaint (IP Logged)
05 December, 2018 13:12
Quote:
tedge
As a Saints supporter I can well do without the tension and apprehension of critical relegation fixtures ! I would watch the Saints wherever they were positioned in a ringfenced league and if that meant watching matches with nothing at stake they might well be more entertaining and certainly more relaxed from a spectator point of view.

Absolutely.

 
tboullem
Re: RFU: Relegation will definitely happen this season
Houghton Saint (IP Logged)
05 December, 2018 17:07
I would prefer that the status quo were preserved but there has to be some latitude with regard to clubs coming up to the Premiership with regard to capacity and facilities.

 
Christoff
Re: RFU: Relegation will definitely happen this season
smitferbrainz (IP Logged)
05 December, 2018 17:24
Quote:
twsaint
Quote:
tedge
As a Saints supporter I can well do without the tension and apprehension of critical relegation fixtures ! I would watch the Saints wherever they were positioned in a ringfenced league and if that meant watching matches with nothing at stake they might well be more entertaining and certainly more relaxed from a spectator point of view.

Absolutely.

If we were good we wouldn't have the tension, we only have it because we're not.

 
tedge
Re: RFU: Relegation will definitely happen this season
tedge (IP Logged)
05 December, 2018 18:32
Quote:
smitferbrainz
Quote:
twsaint
Quote:
tedge
As a Saints supporter I can well do without the tension and apprehension of critical relegation fixtures ! I would watch the Saints wherever they were positioned in a ringfenced league and if that meant watching matches with nothing at stake they might well be more entertaining and certainly more relaxed from a spectator point of view.

Absolutely.

If we were good we wouldn't have the tension, we only have it because we're not.

Stating the obvious but if we were good we wouldn't be fighting against relegation !

 
Brackleysaint
Re: RFU: Relegation will definitely happen this season
Brackleysaint (IP Logged)
05 December, 2018 20:32
The RFU can say what they want, if Premiership Rugby want to implement ring fencing immediately they will do so, they hold all the cards, they control.all the England players.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: RFU: Relegation will definitely happen this season
SaintMaul (IP Logged)
06 December, 2018 06:24
Quote:
Brackleysaint
The RFU can say what they want, if Premiership Rugby want to implement ring fencing immediately they will do so, they hold all the cards, they control.all the England players.

True to a degree. But what if the RFU were prepared to stick the course, pick players from the championship, until players contracts ran out and introduce central contracts and not pay the clubs for breaching their contract?

The clubs don't have a legal recourse as long as the RFU follows its own procedures like tsking the decision to Council. The RFU is the regulator so the clubs would need to break away (being in breach of contract for player release - could the clubs afford to pay significant damages?). Also the clubs can't unilaterally vary their existing contract and there has always been relegation so hard to argue the term is unenforceable.

It would be messy but the RFU might view that as a fight worth having if it results in them retaining control and moving to central player contracts.

 
Brackleysaint
Re: RFU: Relegation will definitely happen this season
Brackleysaint (IP Logged)
06 December, 2018 07:50
Very good points StMaul. Central contracts may be one of the bargaining points for PR getting what they want. Realistically with just a few months to a World Cup nor with their current financial position, I would think the RFU will not want to get embroiled in a battle with PR.

 
Eif Jones
Re: RFU: Relegation will definitely happen this season
Eif Jones (IP Logged)
06 December, 2018 09:14
Being a Denis Compton fan as a kid, therefore Arsenal as well it's interesting to compare their change of management with the Saints change.

Wenger obviously had the players but had reached the end of his time there. The new manager has made them competitive at the top of the league with virtually the same players.

In contrast, Malinder so obviously had reached the end, fighting relegation rather than be competitive. The new manager has struggled to make a difference with the same players. Dare I suggest that unlike Emery he hasn't had the raw material to make a difference. Rugby is a minor sport compared with soccer so improving the squad will not be an overnight job, one can only hope that post World Cup more players will become available.

 
jimmies
Re: RFU: Relegation will definitely happen this season
jimmies (IP Logged)
06 December, 2018 09:20
I would want to keep relegation even if it meant us going down, if we finish bottom we are not good enough for the league and the best of Div 1 deserve the shot at it

 
ElySaint
Re: RFU: Relegation will definitely happen this season
ElySaint (IP Logged)
06 December, 2018 09:34
Quote:
Eif Jones
Being a Denis Compton fan as a kid, therefore Arsenal as well it's interesting to compare their change of management with the Saints change.
Wenger obviously had the players but had reached the end of his time there. The new manager has made them competitive at the top of the league with virtually the same players.

In contrast, Malinder so obviously had reached the end, fighting relegation rather than be competitive. The new manager has struggled to make a difference with the same players. Dare I suggest that unlike Emery he hasn't had the raw material to make a difference. Rugby is a minor sport compared with soccer so improving the squad will not be an overnight job, one can only hope that post World Cup more players will become available.

I like that analogy Eif. I would agree with your assertion that Boyd et al haven't got the 'raw materials'. It is clear they are trying to play a more expansive style - but the players simply don't have the skills / management ability to execute consistently. The younger players do seem to, in fairness, but some of the established players have never seemed to be able to improve these skills. Do they have coachability?

Of course there is an onus on the coaches to improve skills, or adapt style to suit what they have at their disposal.

Also agree that if we go down, that is what we deserve. We deserve to be exactly where we were this time last year because in terms of results we simply have not improved.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2018 09:38 by ElySaint.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: RFU: Relegation will definitely happen this season
shendy (IP Logged)
06 December, 2018 10:55
And of course Boyd has said that rebuilding via recruitment is a multi-year process as players they want are tied up in existing contracts. A similar situation to when Mallinder arrived, and he had to wait for the people he wanted to come onto the market - I think Dowson was one of them.

 
tedge
Re: RFU: Relegation will definitely happen this season
tedge (IP Logged)
06 December, 2018 12:34
As I mentioned elsewhere, improving individual skills is almost a lost cause when players are mature (say early twenties). Younger ones are still responsive and easier to coach.

 
fleetg
Re: RFU: Relegation will definitely happen this season
fleetg (IP Logged)
06 December, 2018 23:28
Disagree that Wenger had the players Eif. I also disagree in the Wenger to Mallinder analogy. Arsene Wenger achieved a top 4 finish 20 years in a row (winning many trophies) before a 5th and 6th placed finish meant his time was up. I would rather liken that to Cockers up the road who achieved so much over many many years i.e major consistency before a relatively short term fall from grace.
Although you may think Emery is suddenly the Messiah, may I remind you that Arsenal are currently not in the top 4 Eif and are a million miles away from the top of the table. As with Boyd, he may get them right up towards the top but it will take time.
It's amazing how many Arsenal fans seem so dismissive of what Wenger actually did for that club with hands tied for quite a bit of his tenure.
By the way I have no affinity to Arsenal as a supporter of a club several levels below the Premiership.

 
tboullem
Re: RFU: Relegation will definitely happen this season
Houghton Saint (IP Logged)
07 December, 2018 08:01
Not so sure about the Wenger/Mallinder idea but an underperforming club living on past glories ? Impressive yet expensive stadium, new coach trying to build an new ethos........ maybe !

 
samlee99
Re: RFU: Relegation will definitely happen this season
samlee99 (IP Logged)
07 December, 2018 11:27
Quote:
Eif Jones
Being a Denis Compton fan as a kid, therefore Arsenal as well it's interesting to compare their change of management with the Saints change.
Wenger obviously had the players but had reached the end of his time there. The new manager has made them competitive at the top of the league with virtually the same players.

In contrast, Malinder so obviously had reached the end, fighting relegation rather than be competitive. The new manager has struggled to make a difference with the same players. Dare I suggest that unlike Emery he hasn't had the raw material to make a difference. Rugby is a minor sport compared with soccer so improving the squad will not be an overnight job, one can only hope that post World Cup more players will become available.

Well I never realised Denis Compton was Welsh!


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