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Sarries v Munster
Discussion started by Walks11 (IP Logged), 20 April, 2019 12:10
Walks11
Walks11
20 April, 2019 12:10
Reportedly only 4K tickets sold to home supporters and 8K Munster. Expected attendance only about 15K for a Euro semi final. Not great, Munster fans not had to try too hard to get a critical mass of support

HungryLikeTheWolf
Wilson Pickett
20 April, 2019 14:54
and this is a surprise ?

St. Andy
St. Andy
20 April, 2019 15:17
It seems to me over the years Saracens have tried everything to build up support. The only thing that had even a modicum of success is giving tickets away. This of course was in the hope that those people would become paying customers, they didnít.

It now seems the club is nothing more than a rich manís plaything to massage his ego. In my opinion ultimately unsustainable.

MESSAGES->author
Stockers
20 April, 2019 15:42
I live in Amersham, South Bucks, close to Sarries country. Driving along this morning, there's a local coach company 40 seater parked on the road, sporting a large Munster flag across the back window!

Ubiquitous they are!!

banburyst
banburyst
20 April, 2019 16:20
Doesn't seem to be affecting the Sarries players too badly

Longers
Longers
20 April, 2019 16:57
Quote:
banburyst
Doesn't seem to be affecting the Sarries players too badly

No, but it didn't affect the Richmond players either, until their money man got bored, pulled his money, and down went the club and the business.

It could still happen - well not perhaps until Jackson retires*

Walks11
Walks11
20 April, 2019 16:58
Quote:
banburyst
Doesn't seem to be affecting the Sarries players too badly

Probably because they are used to it. I guess it doesnít become important unless you are down to the wire at the end

St. Andy
St. Andy
20 April, 2019 17:05
Billy Vunipola after match interview, in effect doubles down. He believes what he believes, but he didnít mean to hurt anyone. Well hereís one for you Billy, if you tell a large percentage of the community they are going to burn in a pit of fire for eternity unless they believe in your imaginary friend then you are going to hurt them. And ďThis (Saracens) is more than a team. Yes itís a business for you
Letís hope for your sake cheats are not included in those in line for eternal damnation because you might be joining all the others you believe you have the right to condem.

Corkst
Corkst
20 April, 2019 17:07
Quote:
Stockers
I live in Amersham, South Bucks, close to Sarries country. Driving along this morning, there's a local coach company 40 seater parked on the road, sporting a large Munster flag across the back window!
Ubiquitous they are!!

I've been to Amersham a few times with work and I'm now convinced that you are extremely wealthy!

ramseysaint
ramseysaint
20 April, 2019 18:00
Quote:
St. Andy
Billy Vunipola after match interview, in effect doubles down. He believes what he believes, but he didnít mean to hurt anyone. Well hereís one for you Billy, if you tell a large percentage of the community they are going to burn in a pit of fire for eternity unless they believe in your imaginary friend then you are going to hurt them. And ďThis (Saracens) is more than a team. Yes itís a business for you
Letís hope for your sake cheats are not included in those in line for eternal damnation because you might be joining all the others you believe you have the right to condem.

Well said

PurfleetSarrie
PurfleetSarrie
20 April, 2019 18:36
Just once. Once. It would be nice if premiership teams got behind each other.

Duckonstilts
Duckonstilts
20 April, 2019 18:43
We do. I support most prem teams in Europe. I dont however like what Saracens have become. In thier quest for success they have stepped on too many toes. Exeter are also successful but have not found the same issues.

tedge
tedge
20 April, 2019 18:46
Sarries are undoubtedly the best English team playing in the European competition and one of the two best in the league. They deserve to be but they don't half make themselves hard to like. Didn't we used to say the same about Tigers - maybe to be consistently the best you need a hard streak ?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 20/04/2019 18:48 by tedge.

MESSAGES->author
SaintMaul
20 April, 2019 18:51
As with any European gsme I was shouting the English team on.

Sarries were at their brutal best. The mixture of wave after wave of power runners coupled with a top notch kicking and catching game is a potent combination.

Sad to see so few Sarries fans for a home semi.

tboullem
Houghton Saint
20 April, 2019 18:52
I think I would have cheered any Premiership team on against Munster and more especially Leinster but there is just something about Saracens that I cannot countenance. Yes, they are a hell of a team but their antics on and off the field and in and out of the boardroom are simply not pleasant to watch. There are some great old Fezheads out there but the club lack the identity of a home town or city and as such just remain as an archetypal franchise, a rich mans plaything and previously a loss leader for South African business interests. Am I jealous of their success, well to a point yes, but I know where I would rather watch my rugby. A couple of thousand Saints and Tiggers fans watching an A league game in the sunshine beats a more than half empty Ricoh where the 'home club' are outnumbered by visitors in red.

HungryLikeTheWolf
Wilson Pickett
20 April, 2019 19:11
Quote:
PurfleetSarrie
Just once. Once. It would be nice if premiership teams got behind each other.


I respect what the rugby side of Saracens has achieved. But I donít really have any affinity for the club.... itís just a rich city bloke buying success - albeit very successfully. I much prefer a Munster or Toulouse who have atmosphere, support base, soul, history etc.

andysaint
andysaint
20 April, 2019 19:40
Sarries did what they do. Munster well below par. Bit of a dull game IMO.

ajack
ajack
20 April, 2019 19:53
I am not one of those who want a club side to win just because they are English. I really didn't care who won just wanted a top class game. Sarries were absolutely superb their ability to manage games and play to a game plan is truly world class. I do find the way so many have to pick at them for any or even no reason a bit sad.

Dragonboy
Dragonboy
20 April, 2019 19:53
Personally Iím not a fan of either Saracens or Munster and as regards Saracens for broadly speaking the reasons stated above. What is clear though is that they are the only ????? Not sure what to say here - they are not a club. Clubs are saints tigers gloss Exeter. Sarries are possibly a financial reinterpretation but they are the only ones who can compete with the French and also the Irish provinces. What I donít like about Munster is Connor Murrayís constant whining moaning and appealing for anything that didnít meet with his approval - you could substitute Sexton and Leinster here tomorrow - sadly the spirit of the game has really been lost in some places.

Deesaint
Deesaint
20 April, 2019 20:22
Well played Sarries and hopefully a similar result in the final
Can I ask all those that degrade the team the players the supporters what actual proof of any wrongdoing do they have ?
From mixing with Sarries supporters at Twickenham their ground and ours Iíve never come across anything but a typical rugby relationship the same as you find with Tigers Bath and every other club
So easy to have a negative mindset

lechef
lechef
20 April, 2019 20:28
Quote:
Longers
Quote:
banburyst
Doesn't seem to be affecting the Sarries players too badly

No, but it didn't affect the Richmond players either, until their money man got bored, pulled his money, and down went the club and the business.

It could still happen - well not perhaps until Jackson retires*

I think you mean Nigel. Jackson isn't even related to him.

lechef
lechef
20 April, 2019 20:32
Quote:
Deesaint
Well played Sarries and hopefully a similar result in the final
Can I ask all those that degrade the team the players the supporters what actual proof of any wrongdoing do they have ?
From mixing with Sarries supporters at Twickenham their ground and ours Iíve never come across anything but a typical rugby relationship the same as you find with Tigers Bath and every other club
So easy to have a negative mindset

Thank you Deesaint the only comment posted that has made sense on this site.

tboullem
Houghton Saint
20 April, 2019 20:37
I don't think much of the above is aimed at the team or its supporters but there are other issues are there not ?

St. Andy
St. Andy
20 April, 2019 20:39
Quote:
Deesaint
Well played Sarries and hopefully a similar result in the final
Can I ask all those that degrade the team the players the supporters what actual proof of any wrongdoing do they have ?
From mixing with Sarries supporters at Twickenham their ground and ours Iíve never come across anything but a typical rugby relationship the same as you find with Tigers Bath and every other club
So easy to have a negative mindset

I have no problem at all with their fans, the old school genuine ones I have met, perfectly fine. Vunipola guilty by his words. We have freedom of speech but that does not mean freedom from the consequences of that speech. As for the clubs financial arrangements. I think balance of probabilities is the burden here and if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's most likely a duck.

Corkst
Corkst
20 April, 2019 21:05
Quote:
andysaint
Sarries did what they do. Munster well below par. Bit of a dull game IMO.

To be honest, I think Munster probably about par - they just don't have the standard of player across the whole team that they used to, although I've seen Bleyendaal have much better games. Murray seems to believe his own hype these days, and they don't have enough ball carriers in the forwards. They have flattered to deceive over the last few years by being able to raise their game in Europe, although as has been mentioned often enough, that is a lot easier when you are in a lower standard of league and can afford to manage players' game time.

Duckonstilts
Duckonstilts
20 April, 2019 21:17
Don't get me wrong, I have all the time in the world for the long suffering fez boys who are now getting some success after putting up with some very poor years at terrible grounds. Its just there have been so many stunts, so many comments, silly songs, marches.... none of it needed.

Even on the Sarries board there are loads of decent folk who just want to talk about rugby for 5 mins but theres always the next talking point....

People need to remember how you should treat others on the way up. Nothing lasts forever.

Walks11
Walks11
20 April, 2019 22:10
Quote:
Dragonboy
Personally Iím not a fan of either Saracens or Munster and as regards Saracens for broadly speaking the reasons stated above. What is clear though is that they are the only ????? Not sure what to say here - they are not a club. Clubs are saints tigers gloss Exeter. Sarries are possibly a financial reinterpretation but they are the only ones who can compete with the French and also the Irish provinces. What I donít like about Munster is Connor Murrayís constant whining moaning and appealing for anything that didnít meet with his approval - you could substitute Sexton and Leinster here tomorrow - sadly the spirit of the game has really been lost in some places.

+1

I admire a lot of what Sarries have done but for me it is tainted with that undercurrent of salary cap breaches and for that I canít like them. I would love to watch them and support what they do but canít get past that. I wanted them to win today purely to be rid of the Murray whining, similar tomorrow, vive Le France

Sweet Lady
Joubear
21 April, 2019 01:22
Quote:
Longers
Quote:
banburyst
Doesn't seem to be affecting the Sarries players too badly

No, but it didn't affect the Richmond players either, until their money man got bored, pulled his money, and down went the club and the business.

It could still happen - well not perhaps until Jackson retires*

Whatís Jackson got to do with it?

EBWGC
Eric Browett
21 April, 2019 08:33
He's inferring that Nigel Wray might walk away from Saracens after his 'son' Jackson retires. Showing his deep knowledge of all things Saracens!

Longers
Longers
21 April, 2019 09:03
Quote:
lechef
Quote:
Longers
Quote:
banburyst
Doesn't seem to be affecting the Sarries players too badly

No, but it didn't affect the Richmond players either, until their money man got bored, pulled his money, and down went the club and the business.

It could still happen - well not perhaps until Jackson retires*

I think you mean Nigel. Jackson isn't even related to him.

No - I meant Jackson. His son, Jackson Wray. When he retires, Daddy may just find another interest.

SaintGuy
SaintGuy
21 April, 2019 09:13
Quote:
Longers
Quote:
lechef
Quote:
Longers
Quote:
banburyst
Doesn't seem to be affecting the Sarries players too badly

No, but it didn't affect the Richmond players either, until their money man got bored, pulled his money, and down went the club and the business.

It could still happen - well not perhaps until Jackson retires*

I think you mean Nigel. Jackson isn't even related to him.

No - I meant Jackson. His son, Jackson Wray. When he retires, Daddy may just find another interest.

But Jackson Wray isn't related to Nigel Wray...

Corkst
Corkst
21 April, 2019 09:17
Billy V after the game :-

"It was probably insensitive, but also something I strongly believe in"
"I'll probably not be as honest as I have been about things that probably hurt a lot of people. I know that now"

So after a warning from the RFU and sarries he's basically doubled down.

I wonder how he feels about people who would judge him based upon the colour of his skin the way he would judge people based upon their sexuality.

MESSAGES->author
Stockers
21 April, 2019 09:20
Remember people, two Wrays donít make it Right!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 21/04/2019 09:25 by Stockers.

graham_t
graham t
21 April, 2019 09:30
It didn't affect the result, but I'm surprised that little or no mention has been made of the fact that the Munster flanker kicked the ball out of the Sarries scrum for their try

Deesaint
Deesaint
21 April, 2019 09:54
Quote:
Corkst
Billy V after the game :-
"It was probably insensitive, but also something I strongly believe in"
"I'll probably not be as honest as I have been about things that probably hurt a lot of people. I know that now"

So after a warning from the RFU and sarries he's basically doubled down.

I wonder how he feels about people who would judge him based upon the colour of his skin the way he would judge people based upon their sexuality.

Iím not sure how you change deeply held views
I donít agree with him but to change his view
Electric shock treatment
A spell in prison
Make thought a criminal offence
Ban him from playing rugby
Ban him playing for England

If he doesnít say anything but still holds the same views
Is there a winner?

HungryLikeTheWolf
Wilson Pickett
21 April, 2019 09:57
He can have his views but stop banging on about it


Donít mention the war!

Longers
Longers
21 April, 2019 10:00
Quote:
SaintGuy
Quote:
Longers
Quote:
lechef
Quote:
Longers
Quote:
banburyst
Doesn't seem to be affecting the Sarries players too badly

No, but it didn't affect the Richmond players either, until their money man got bored, pulled his money, and down went the club and the business.

It could still happen - well not perhaps until Jackson retires*

I think you mean Nigel. Jackson isn't even related to him.

No - I meant Jackson. His son, Jackson Wray. When he retires, Daddy may just find another interest.

But Jackson Wray isn't related to Nigel Wray...

Learn something new every day! Thanks

Corkst
Corkst
21 April, 2019 10:14
Quote:
graham t
It didn't affect the result, but I'm surprised that little or no mention has been made of the fact that the Munster flanker kicked the ball out of the Sarries scrum for their try

I think you've answered it yourself there with the "didn't affect the result".
Ditto O'Mahony not getting a yellow for the deliberate knock on.

Oh, and of course Sarries being offside (sorry, great line speed!)all the time.

BrianB
BrianB
21 April, 2019 10:43
Typical of Nigel to disown his son to get round the salary cap!

Corkst
Corkst
21 April, 2019 11:25
Quote:
BrianB
Typical of Nigel to disown his son to get round the salary cap!

Andy Farrell must have had mixed feelings yesterday with his sons playing for opposing teams!

St. Andy
St. Andy
21 April, 2019 12:46
Quote:
Deesaint
Quote:
Corkst
Billy V after the game :-
"It was probably insensitive, but also something I strongly believe in"
"I'll probably not be as honest as I have been about things that probably hurt a lot of people. I know that now"

So after a warning from the RFU and sarries he's basically doubled down.

I wonder how he feels about people who would judge him based upon the colour of his skin the way he would judge people based upon their sexuality.

Iím not sure how you change deeply held views
I donít agree with him but to change his view
Electric shock treatment
A spell in prison
Make thought a criminal offence
Ban him from playing rugby
Ban him playing for England

If he doesnít say anything but still holds the same views
Is there a winner?

A period of education and de radicalisation perhaps. That is what we do with Muslim fundamentalists with the prevent programme. At the point of intervention for them all they have is deeply held beliefs. This is dangerous, it is a small step from believing certain people will go to hell to believing you can send them there yourself.
His views are now known, Saracens (and the irony of him wearing the star and crescent on his chest, a symbol of Islam is exquisite), will do as they please, but no he should not be considered for England again.

St.Sinner
St.Sinner
21 April, 2019 13:38
Quote:
St. Andy
Quote:
Deesaint
Quote:
Corkst
Billy V after the game :-
"It was probably insensitive, but also something I strongly believe in"
"I'll probably not be as honest as I have been about things that probably hurt a lot of people. I know that now"

So after a warning from the RFU and sarries he's basically doubled down.

I wonder how he feels about people who would judge him based upon the colour of his skin the way he would judge people based upon their sexuality.

Iím not sure how you change deeply held views
I donít agree with him but to change his view
Electric shock treatment
A spell in prison
Make thought a criminal offence
Ban him from playing rugby
Ban him playing for England

If he doesnít say anything but still holds the same views
Is there a winner?

A period of education and de radicalisation perhaps. That is what we do with Muslim fundamentalists with the prevent programme. At the point of intervention for them all they have is deeply held beliefs. This is dangerous, it is a small step from believing certain people will go to hell to believing you can send them there yourself.
His views are now known, Saracens (and the irony of him wearing the star and crescent on his chest, a symbol of Islam is exquisite), will do as they please, but no he should not be considered for England again.

Comparing Vunipola to a Muslim extremist, wow! They have pure hate for anyone whoís a non believer (infidel) and believe they must convert them or punish them by any means necessary. Billy just thinks blokes should @#$%& birds. To put it simply.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 21/04/2019 13:39 by St.Sinner.

Longers
Longers
21 April, 2019 14:24
Quote:
BrianB
Typical of Nigel to disown his son to get round the salary cap!

(Sm6)

HungryLikeTheWolf
Wilson Pickett
21 April, 2019 15:40
Quote:
St. Andy
Quote:
Deesaint
Quote:
Corkst
Billy V after the game :-
"It was probably insensitive, but also something I strongly believe in"
"I'll probably not be as honest as I have been about things that probably hurt a lot of people. I know that now"

So after a warning from the RFU and sarries he's basically doubled down.

I wonder how he feels about people who would judge him based upon the colour of his skin the way he would judge people based upon their sexuality.

Iím not sure how you change deeply held views
I donít agree with him but to change his view
Electric shock treatment
A spell in prison
Make thought a criminal offence
Ban him from playing rugby
Ban him playing for England

If he doesnít say anything but still holds the same views
Is there a winner?

A period of education and de radicalisation perhaps. That is what we do with Muslim fundamentalists with the prevent programme. At the point of intervention for them all they have is deeply held beliefs. This is dangerous, it is a small step from believing certain people will go to hell to believing you can send them there yourself.
His views are now known, Saracens (and the irony of him wearing the star and crescent on his chest, a symbol of Islam is exquisite), will do as they please, but no he should not be considered for England again.



Thatís an extreme view as well


middle ground is Ďbelieve what you like but in our society some of those views are offensive so keep them to yourselfĒ

Iím assuming Billy doesnít live by absolutely everything in the bible but I could be wrong

St Saltaire
St Saltaire
21 April, 2019 15:40
BrianB - you have posted some gems recently! Keep it up please.

St. Andy
St. Andy
22 April, 2019 13:39
Quote:
St.Sinner
Quote:
St. Andy
Quote:
Deesaint
Quote:
Corkst
Billy V after the game :-
"It was probably insensitive, but also something I strongly believe in"
"I'll probably not be as honest as I have been about things that probably hurt a lot of people. I know that now"

So after a warning from the RFU and sarries he's basically doubled down.

I wonder how he feels about people who would judge him based upon the colour of his skin the way he would judge people based upon their sexuality.

Iím not sure how you change deeply held views
I donít agree with him but to change his view
Electric shock treatment
A spell in prison
Make thought a criminal offence
Ban him from playing rugby
Ban him playing for England

If he doesnít say anything but still holds the same views
Is there a winner?

A period of education and de radicalisation perhaps. That is what we do with Muslim fundamentalists with the prevent programme. At the point of intervention for them all they have is deeply held beliefs. This is dangerous, it is a small step from believing certain people will go to hell to believing you can send them there yourself.
His views are now known, Saracens (and the irony of him wearing the star and crescent on his chest, a symbol of Islam is exquisite), will do as they please, but no he should not be considered for England again.

Comparing Vunipola to a Muslim extremist, wow! They have pure hate for anyone whoís a non believer (infidel) and believe they must convert them or punish them by any means necessary. Billy just thinks blokes should @#$%& birds. To put it simply.

I did not compare Vunipola to a Muslim fundamentalist. I pointed out the similarity of mind set between a Muslim who currently would face some kind of intervention and a Christian fundamentalist. Who currently doesnít. And quite how telling people who have a particular trait over which they have no control that they will burn in a pit of fire for eternity when they die, is not showing hate towards them Iím not sure. If an England player said all black people will go to hell, do you think he would be picked again. Amounts to the same thing.

St.Sinner
St.Sinner
22 April, 2019 19:14
Quote:
St. Andy
Quote:
St.Sinner
Quote:
St. Andy
Quote:
Deesaint
Quote:
Corkst
Billy V after the game :-
"It was probably insensitive, but also something I strongly believe in"
"I'll probably not be as honest as I have been about things that probably hurt a lot of people. I know that now"

So after a warning from the RFU and sarries he's basically doubled down.

I wonder how he feels about people who would judge him based upon the colour of his skin the way he would judge people based upon their sexuality.

Iím not sure how you change deeply held views
I donít agree with him but to change his view
Electric shock treatment
A spell in prison
Make thought a criminal offence
Ban him from playing rugby
Ban him playing for England

If he doesnít say anything but still holds the same views
Is there a winner?

A period of education and de radicalisation perhaps. That is what we do with Muslim fundamentalists with the prevent programme. At the point of intervention for them all they have is deeply held beliefs. This is dangerous, it is a small step from believing certain people will go to hell to believing you can send them there yourself.
His views are now known, Saracens (and the irony of him wearing the star and crescent on his chest, a symbol of Islam is exquisite), will do as they please, but no he should not be considered for England again.

Comparing Vunipola to a Muslim extremist, wow! They have pure hate for anyone whoís a non believer (infidel) and believe they must convert them or punish them by any means necessary. Billy just thinks blokes should @#$%& birds. To put it simply.

I did not compare Vunipola to a Muslim fundamentalist. I pointed out the similarity of mind set between a Muslim who currently would face some kind of intervention and a Christian fundamentalist. Who currently doesnít. And quite how telling people who have a particular trait over which they have no control that they will burn in a pit of fire for eternity when they die, is not showing hate towards them Iím not sure. If an England player said all black people will go to hell, do you think he would be picked again. Amounts to the same thing.

I do get what your saying, but I just think people are too offended by things. Itís just some bloke talking some rubbish. I get if heís physically killing people and sending them to ďhellĒ aha.. but itís just words. No one has to listen, canít people just brush it off and laugh at him for thinking publicly saying that was clever? I donít think he is going to influence anyone! I think words can hurt if itís consistent, say bullying at
School for example. Day in day out. But throw away remarks on a random really shouldnít matter as much to people. The world still spins!

tedge
tedge
22 April, 2019 19:26
[quote St.Sinner][quote St. Andy][quote St.Sinner][quote St. Andy][quote Deesaint][quote Corkst]

I do get what your saying, but I just think people are too offended by things. Itís just some bloke talking some rubbish. I get if heís physically killing people and sending them to ďhellĒ aha.. but itís just words. No one has to listen, canít people just brush it off and laugh at him for thinking publicly saying that was clever? I donít think he is going to influence anyone! I think words can hurt if itís consistent, say bullying at
School for example. Day in day out. But throw away remarks on a random really shouldnít matter as much to people. The world still spins![/quote]


Absolutely 100 per cent agree.

HungryLikeTheWolf
Wilson Pickett
22 April, 2019 19:42
Quote:
St.Sinner
Quote:
St. Andy
Quote:
St.Sinner
Quote:
St. Andy
Quote:
Deesaint
Quote:
Corkst
Billy V after the game :-
"It was probably insensitive, but also something I strongly believe in"
"I'll probably not be as honest as I have been about things that probably hurt a lot of people. I know that now"

So after a warning from the RFU and sarries he's basically doubled down.

I wonder how he feels about people who would judge him based upon the colour of his skin the way he would judge people based upon their sexuality.

Iím not sure how you change deeply held views
I donít agree with him but to change his view
Electric shock treatment
A spell in prison
Make thought a criminal offence
Ban him from playing rugby
Ban him playing for England

If he doesnít say anything but still holds the same views
Is there a winner?

A period of education and de radicalisation perhaps. That is what we do with Muslim fundamentalists with the prevent programme. At the point of intervention for them all they have is deeply held beliefs. This is dangerous, it is a small step from believing certain people will go to hell to believing you can send them there yourself.
His views are now known, Saracens (and the irony of him wearing the star and crescent on his chest, a symbol of Islam is exquisite), will do as they please, but no he should not be considered for England again.

Comparing Vunipola to a Muslim extremist, wow! They have pure hate for anyone whoís a non believer (infidel) and believe they must convert them or punish them by any means necessary. Billy just thinks blokes should @#$%& birds. To put it simply.

I did not compare Vunipola to a Muslim fundamentalist. I pointed out the similarity of mind set between a Muslim who currently would face some kind of intervention and a Christian fundamentalist. Who currently doesnít. And quite how telling people who have a particular trait over which they have no control that they will burn in a pit of fire for eternity when they die, is not showing hate towards them Iím not sure. If an England player said all black people will go to hell, do you think he would be picked again. Amounts to the same thing.

I do get what your saying, but I just think people are too offended by things. Itís just some bloke talking some rubbish. I get if heís physically killing people and sending them to ďhellĒ aha.. but itís just words. No one has to listen, canít people just brush it off and laugh at him for thinking publicly saying that was clever? I donít think he is going to influence anyone! I think words can hurt if itís consistent, say bullying at
School for example. Day in day out. But throw away remarks on a random really shouldnít matter as much to people. The world still spins!



thatís easier to say when in the majority and not from a minority group

Corkst
Corkst
22 April, 2019 21:51
Quote:
St.Sinner
Quote:
St. Andy
Quote:
St.Sinner
Quote:
St. Andy
Quote:
Deesaint
Quote:
Corkst
Billy V after the game :-
"It was probably insensitive, but also something I strongly believe in"
"I'll probably not be as honest as I have been about things that probably hurt a lot of people. I know that now"

So after a warning from the RFU and sarries he's basically doubled down.

I wonder how he feels about people who would judge him based upon the colour of his skin the way he would judge people based upon their sexuality.

Iím not sure how you change deeply held views
I donít agree with him but to change his view
Electric shock treatment
A spell in prison
Make thought a criminal offence
Ban him from playing rugby
Ban him playing for England

If he doesnít say anything but still holds the same views
Is there a winner?

A period of education and de radicalisation perhaps. That is what we do with Muslim fundamentalists with the prevent programme. At the point of intervention for them all they have is deeply held beliefs. This is dangerous, it is a small step from believing certain people will go to hell to believing you can send them there yourself.
His views are now known, Saracens (and the irony of him wearing the star and crescent on his chest, a symbol of Islam is exquisite), will do as they please, but no he should not be considered for England again.

Comparing Vunipola to a Muslim extremist, wow! They have pure hate for anyone whoís a non believer (infidel) and believe they must convert them or punish them by any means necessary. Billy just thinks blokes should @#$%& birds. To put it simply.

I did not compare Vunipola to a Muslim fundamentalist. I pointed out the similarity of mind set between a Muslim who currently would face some kind of intervention and a Christian fundamentalist. Who currently doesnít. And quite how telling people who have a particular trait over which they have no control that they will burn in a pit of fire for eternity when they die, is not showing hate towards them Iím not sure. If an England player said all black people will go to hell, do you think he would be picked again. Amounts to the same thing.

I do get what your saying, but I just think people are too offended by things. Itís just some bloke talking some rubbish. I get if heís physically killing people and sending them to ďhellĒ aha.. but itís just words. No one has to listen, canít people just brush it off and laugh at him for thinking publicly saying that was clever? I donít think he is going to influence anyone! I think words can hurt if itís consistent, say bullying at
School for example. Day in day out. But throw away remarks on a random really shouldnít matter as much to people. The world still spins!

You don't think he will influence anyone. Yet he himself has been influenced by people telling him that homosexuality is wrong.
I am offended by his comments the same way that I am offended by racists, anti-vaxxers, holocaust deniers and all the other peddlers of hate, lies and ignorance. They are able to reach a wide audience with the Internet and people with a high profile can help to validate these views.
But perhaps I am being "too" offended. I was obviously not offended by your use of the term "birds" to describe women, just surprised that anyone is still using it.

St.Sinner
St.Sinner
22 April, 2019 23:02
Heís been in that environment for years, a school kids not going to look on Instagram and off one post go ďIím converted!Ē to his way of thinking. Half wouldnít even think twice about it, the other half probably wouldnít even read it all as itís some boring paragraph of Mumbai jumbo!!! & honestly calling women birds is not a problem. Birds, lasses, chicks, same as geezers, fellas, blokes. Itís just a word! So many PC people who need to take a chill pill, relax and not let such minor things matter to them so much !

MESSAGES->author
shendy
23 April, 2019 08:24
"Mumbai jumbo" - not seen that auto-correct before!

HungryLikeTheWolf
Wilson Pickett
23 April, 2019 08:48
Well the A380 is going out of commission ...

tedge
tedge
23 April, 2019 09:31
This warm spell is coming to an end [for now]

St. Andy
St. Andy
23 April, 2019 19:25
Quote:
St.Sinner
Heís been in that environment for years, a school kids not going to look on Instagram and off one post go ďIím converted!Ē to his way of thinking. Half wouldnít even think twice about it, the other half probably wouldnít even read it all as itís some boring paragraph of Mumbai jumbo!!! & honestly calling women birds is not a problem. Birds, lasses, chicks, same as geezers, fellas, blokes. Itís just a word! So many PC people who need to take a chill pill, relax and not let such minor things matter to them so much !

This will be my last word on the subject, a school kid looking at it in isolation may well not be converted but one inclined to that thinking may seek out further such stuff.
Yes some bloke just talking rubbish, and before he finally overstepped the mark, I give you the life and works of Anjam Choudry. Now I am not saying that Vunipola is doing what Choudry did but it validates the feelings of those who might.


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