So, who did you like playing against?  “The French.  And the Scottish, Irish, Kiwis . . .”

What was your most enjoyable game? 

“Paris where we got 2 sent off.  International scummaging was hard.  People now say it wasn’t so hard.  It was.  It was fun when you’d finished but the attrition was just that and you didn’t have time to think about how much ‘fun’ it was during the game.  It’s difficult now too because it’s their jobs.  It’s important in a different way to them.  When you lose it’s desolate.”

So, back to the inability to referee scrums.  One audience member recalled how Chris White, seemingly having no clue, sent off a prop from Quins and one from the opposition, Bristol.   Was he right?  

“One of the best referees I had was when I was at Nottingham.  He was a former winger  . . .  he told us that he didn’t have a clue about scrums but there was a referees’ assessor in the stands who would mark him down if he did nothing . . .  so he said ‘I’m going to guess’.”  Seems a lot of people are in that boat!  Brian reckons that the only two people who know why a scrum has collapsed are the props – and that they’re liars!   As for Shi . . .  I mean, Chris White, well Brian thought he probably was right to send off the two props as re-setting scrums is boring.  It is.  And Chris White is the past master at it!   

Another question about cheating within rugby: what did Brian think of the findings of the task force which had been set up to investigate England’s alleged cheating? 

“Those who have reported that England hasn’t done it [cheated] are great.  Why should England be torn apart when no-one else will do it?  The kiwis wouldn’t do it [have an inquiry].  Cheating will be rooted out now.  The case against Quins was flawed anyway.  The first judgement was wrong.  There was not only one person guilty – it was either all or none.  The message is clear now: you don’t do it.  And now you get the away doctor to inspect cuts.”

Brian was then asked about injuries within the game.  Is there a crisis of injuries and are players being sidelined for longer? 

“It’s always a balance. The skeletal system will only take so much.  You can build up the musculature but only so much.  If the ball is in play longer then surely players are under more strain and get injured.”

So, any stories about Richard Cockerill? 

“He was not a direct challenger until the end [of BM’s England days].  I never thought he had what it took to be a good manager.  I didn’t think he was bright enough to be honest [lots of laughter], but I was wrong.  What I like is that he’s honest, straight and open and players respond to that.  He developed the core skills and all credit to him.  At the time, he was a pain in the arse though, which is what you should be.  I never want someone to say from another country that they didn’t hate me.  It would mean that I was no threat.  The best compliment I ever had was at the Parc des Princes.  The French were the first country to announce the teams with a flourish.  They read the French team’s names and there were loud cheers after each one.  They read out the English names [with less enthusiasm, obviously!] and when they got to my name there was sustained booing.  Marvellous.”  Marvellous indeed!

“When I was at Richmond we went to Agen for a pre-season.  It turned into a bit of a brawl, but no-one hit me.  It was a four-day trip and we went out one night.  In a bar this guy recognised me.  He went and got the mayor of the town and we drank for free all night!   In SW France, the game’s heroes are the forwards.  The only country I have trouble in is Scotland.”   Hmmm, perhaps it’s best that I don’t comment on that!

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