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Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
By Mark W-J
March 11 2010
Part One of the Championship season finishes on Saturday with London Welsh’s visit to Cornish Pirates. This week’s fixtures were postponed en bloc in early January, but to allow clubs to plan for the opening round of play-off fixtures next week, the RFU have based the bulk of the seedings on the positions after 21 rounds of fixtures. As a result, Welsh are ranked third, behind Bristol & Exeter.

If results don’t go our way, however, we could drop as low as 6th on Saturday evening, which would represent our lowest standing in the table since round 12 back at the start of December.  The clubs occupying the top six places have been unchanged since mid-October, and once Bristol climbed into the top two at the end of that month, Welsh, Pirates, Bedford and Nottingham have been jostling for position in the chasing pack.  The Blues and Nottingham both entertain sides facing relegation play-offs (Rotherham and Coventry respectively), and with the three clubs immediately behind us all level on 55 points to our 58, defeat at the Mennaye Field could see all three overtake us.  It could be argued that this makes a mockery of pre-determining the seedings, but results over six months have proved that there’s nothing to choose between the four clubs.

 

The final two places in the promotion play-off – and for the unlucky team, the last spot in the relegation battle – are to be decided on Saturday.  All eyes will be on the meeting of 7th and 8th when Doncaster entertain Plymouth at Castle Park – the Knights’ recent run of four wins in a fortnight means that they are all but assured of a place in the top 8, and an away win would see Albion join them.  For Moseley to leapfrog the losers, they would need to beat Bristol at Billesley Common and – in the event of a Plymouth win at Donny – overturn a points differential of over 100.

 

One major criticism of the season to date has been the continuous moving of the goalposts in terms of how the play-offs will pan-out.  The decision to announce the seedings before the final round of fixtures was intended to give clubs time to promote the forthcoming fixtures, although from our perspective we still don’t know who the 7th seeds – our guests at ODP at 12-30pm next Saturday - will be.  The mass postponements, caused by one of the harshest winters for almost 30 years, couldn’t possibly have been foreseen by the powers-that-be, but the lack of free weekends has meant that midweek rearragements have affected the majority of clubs.  A proposal from Exeter that the play-off final be scheduled over two legs rather than a one-off showdown at Twickenham was approved by the majority of clubs in the autumn – the Chiefs’ thinking was that a) it would generate more cash for the participating clubs, who would each 100% of the revenue from their home leg, as opposed to the Twickenham takings being swallowed by the RFU; and b) a two-legged final would reduce the likelihood of the outcome being decided by an unlucky bounce or an incorrect decision from the officials.

 

Yet last week’s decision – again adopted after approval from a majority of the 10 clubs – that the semi-final revenue should be split 70:30 in favour of the losing team (rather than 70:30 in favour of the home team, as had previously been proposed) has provoked indignation from Sandy Park.  Chairman Tony Rowe has suggested that any team drawn away to Bristol or Exeter will turn up with no intention of winning, preferring to happily walk away with the cash prize; he conveniently seems to have overlooked the fact that 100% of the takings from a home leg in the final should comfortably out-strip the lost 40% of revenue from the semi-final. It does seem that the RFU have been much more flexible towards the wishes of the Championship clubs over the last six months, which is a welcome change after the way in which the plans to demote five clubs were forced upon us last season.  On the other hand, as one Pirates fan posted on Rolling Maul last week: ‘My only concern would be that the RFU are now allowing themselves to be dictated to by the Championship clubs, and isn't that what we all used to complain about with regard to the PRL clubs? 

And so to the game…  Pirates’ 26-20 win over Newport at Camborne last Sunday saw them qualify for the quarter-finals of the British & Irish Cup – Leinster’s failure to pick-up bonus points in their wins over Pirates, Chiefs and Plymouth, combined with their 10-6 defeat at home to the Black & Ambers in round four means that their 33-22 win over Gael Force on Wednesday night wasn’t enough to overhaul the Cornish side.  In the league, Saturday’s game will be their fourth consecutive match against rival top six sides, a resounding 47-19 win over 14-man Nottingham last time out coming on the back of defeats to Bedford (19-16 away) and Exeter (30-15 at home).  Flanker Blair Cowan is still joint-second with Errie Claassens on 11 tries, but Errie has scored only once away from Old Deer Park – and that was our very first try of the season, at Bristol on the opening weekend.  Aled Thomas is still third on the points-scoring charts with 171, 45 clear of Pirates’ Rob Cook.  However, Cook, James Moore (44 points) and Johnny Bentley (34) have landed a combined total of 71 of their 100 shots at goal, whereas our top three marksmen, Aled, Gordon Ross and Ed Lewis-Pratt, have converted only 72 from 122 attempts (59%).

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Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: The Dragons\\\' Den (IP Logged)
Date: 11/03/2010 08:57

What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: Dragons' Den (IP Logged)
Date: 11/03/2010 21:47

London Welsh team:

15: Ed Lewis-Pratt 14: Greg Evans 13: Dominic Shabbo 12: Charlie Gower 11: Errie Claassens 10: Gordon Ross 9: Ben Stevenson
1: Robin Boot 2: Chris Whitehead 3: Michael Holford 4: Matt Corker 5: Mike Powell 6: Nathan Bonner-Evans (captain) 7: Michael Hills 8: Tom Brown

Replacements:

16: Ben Gotting 17: Lorne Ward 18: Ben Thomas 19: Jonathan Mills 20: Nick Runciman 21: Paul Mackey 22: Aled Thomas



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:03:11:21:47:37 by Dragons' Den.

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 13/03/2010 15:19

Pirates 0-3 LW

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 13/03/2010 15:21

Pirates 3-3 LW

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 13/03/2010 15:25

Pirates 8-3 LW

conv kick

10-3

Pirates 10-6 LW



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:03:13:15:28:45 by Blackheath Welsh.

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 13/03/2010 15:32

Pirates 15-6 LW

conv

17-6



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:03:13:15:33:58 by Blackheath Welsh.

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 13/03/2010 15:44

Pirates 22-6 LW

conv kick

24-6



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:03:13:15:45:32 by Blackheath Welsh.

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 13/03/2010 15:50

Half time

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 13/03/2010 16:13

Pirates 24-11 LW

conv missed

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: Gorseinon Jack (IP Logged)
Date: 13/03/2010 16:15

Do you have the try scorer Blackheath?

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 13/03/2010 16:19

Pirates 24 - 16 LW

conv kick

24-18

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 13/03/2010 16:30

Pirates 24-21 LW

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 13/03/2010 16:37

1st try - Nathan Bonner-Evans
2nd try - Charles Gower

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 13/03/2010 16:41

Pirates 24-26 LW (Ben Thomas)

conv kick

24-28

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 13/03/2010 16:49

Full time

Pirates 24-28 LW

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: Gorseinon Jack (IP Logged)
Date: 13/03/2010 16:51

fantastic result lads ..well done. thanks Blackheath..great job as usual!

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: NTF0 (IP Logged)
Date: 13/03/2010 17:04

Congratulations and well done to the team and Blackheath Welsh hope you and all the other supporters have a great weekend.

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: nld (IP Logged)
Date: 14/03/2010 08:07

Morning after the night before here in Cornwall.

Incredible 2nd half performance to turn the game, a victory looked impossible at half time,

Pity more supporters didn't get the chance to see the match. Pirates TV's asked if they could broadcast the LW v CP game earlier in the season and in return give free streaming back to the club house of this away game. We refused the offer and are the only club in the league to have done so!

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: 1spy (IP Logged)
Date: 14/03/2010 10:22

NLD
Dissapointing that your Clubhouse did not get Pirates TV like other clubs you could have made some revenue by charging to watch the game and beer sales.Bristol filled their clubhouse and made good money.Perhaps next season your new management will allow Pirates TV to be filmed at both games.
London Welsh well deserved the win and play a attractive entertaining brand of rugby
Good luck in the play offs.The way your playing you could bring off some surprises.

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: Rob McEvoy London Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 15/03/2010 10:04

The reason we did not take the feed was that the game clashed with the Wales vs Ireland game. As such the clubhouse was quite full.

If we had wanted to take the feed, we did have the option to pay £6 and show it. No supporter enquired as to whether we would be showing it and we did advertise Pirates TV through london-welsh.co.uk. A lot did enquire about Wales vs Ireland and Scotland vs England.

From a commercial perspective we made an increased revenue from Wales vs Ireland than this game, and from getting Pirates fans to attend the game early in the season rather than watch it on Pirates TV.

Added to the desire to get more supporters attending home games and watching the team away, I think this was the right decision, as do most of the silent majority.

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: paddytaf (IP Logged)
Date: 15/03/2010 18:59

What about given any supporter the option? Apparently there was a band of Bridgend supporters in Penzance to watch LONDON WELSH as they prefered that game instead of the international, and judging by the rubbish i saw on the tele England, Scotland , and WALES, not Ireland, their option was correct. PADDYTAF (Sm80)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:03:15:19:04:47 by paddytaf.

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: nld (IP Logged)
Date: 16/03/2010 11:40

Quote:
Rob McEvoy London Welsh
The reason we did not take the feed was that the game clashed with the Wales vs Ireland game. As such the clubhouse was quite full.

Sorry Rob, this doesn't make sense because you didn't consider showing the fixture when it was originally planned in January - there were no 6N games that weekend. Even the great minds of the RFU didn't know about the January's bad weather when you turned down the reciprocal arrangement early in the season.

Quote:
Rob McEvoy London Welsh
If we had wanted to take the feed, we did have the option to pay £6 and show it.

Wrong again I'm afraid. Was speaking to a former colleague of yours at CP on Sat and he confirmed that they would only allow us to broadcast in the clubhouse as a reciprocal arrangement for showing our home match. Trying to do it on the sly by paying the £6 is a bit like asking the ODP Partnership to show Sky using a domestic subscription.

If we had done this then there would have been a dispute between our two clubs - something I am sure you wouldn't want between your former employer and the one you work for this season?

Quote:
Rob McEvoy London Welsh
No supporter enquired as to whether we would be showing it and we did advertise Pirates TV through london-welsh.co.uk. A lot did enquire about Wales vs Ireland and Scotland vs England.

How could there be enquiries if the option wasn't advertised? Any new idea needs to be marketed, for example the new opportunity for supporters to bid to sponsor a player wouldn't have had any enquiries if it hadn't appeared in the programme and the various websites. Talking of which, what happened to the following:

- Signed and Framed Photograph of you with your player
- An Introduction to your player
- Post Match Photo with your player if they are Man of the Match


or are you also waiting for supporters to ask for it?

Quote:
Rob McEvoy London Welsh
From a commercial perspective we made an increased revenue from Wales vs Ireland than this game, and from getting Pirates fans to attend the game early in the season rather than watch it on Pirates TV.
Added to the desire to get more supporters attending home games and watching the team away, I think this was the right decision, as do most of the silent majority.

So 10 of the 11 clubs saw it as an opportunity and you alone saw it as a threat? If you are right then it shows some unique commercial thinking and no doubt we will lose your genius to a Premiership club next season!

At the time of the home game, and certainly at the time you made the decision, the general consensus was that Hollinshead's money was secure so a small drop in the crowd number, if any, would have been financially insignificant. It appears that the interests of our supporters were put behind the chance to make just a couple of thousand pounds. In reality though the supporters that travel to games do so regardless. You could project live coverage on to the moon or hand deliver a dvd of the match and they would still follow their team. I am sure you have noticed that the same faces appear year after and that is why such strong friendships get made with visiting supporters. The number of Pirates supporters making the trip would not have decreased very much.

The chance for sponsors to have their brand shown on Pirates TV would have been a draw and could have attracted a few more for that game. It would also have rewarded the genuine existing sponsors by giving them more coverage. I'm sure you don't need reminding that the brochure you sent to potential sponsors promised:

"Additionally, London Welsh are pioneering a new service with Sky.com, which will be showing London Welsh matches with full match commentary from Welsh legend John Taylor.

Promote your company in front of up to 4000 supporters at Old Deer Park.

With all games covered by Sky TV, Sky.com, BBC Wales as well as being positioned in one of London’s wealthiest areas, full of families and singles with disposable income.”


Given this could never happen then surely they deserved one televised game even if it was 'just' on Pirates TV. Oddly your brochure also said:

"A bond of £1million has been placed with the RFU to
secure the future of the club."
!

Finally. if the majority are silent how do you know what they are thinking?!

Still can't help thinking that it was a really shortsighted decision that only served to penalise LW supporters. Hopefully we can get this resolved for next season (or maybe even the S-Fs of the playoffs!).

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: paddytaf (IP Logged)
Date: 16/03/2010 14:09

Well said nld. For my money the club would be in excellent hands and be at the forefront of the professional game with you at the helm as our commercial Director/Manager. And i bet i'm not alone in thinking or saying this. PADDYTAF(Sm152)(Sm152)(Sm60)(Sm128)

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: David Barrett (IP Logged)
Date: 16/03/2010 16:15

As much as I agree with many of the comments made by NLD in some previous postings I am not certain everyone would support the nomination as Director of Rugby, Coach, Physio, Director of Finance and Director of all other things London Welsh as well!!!!!!

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: nld (IP Logged)
Date: 16/03/2010 16:52

Phew, that's a relief Di B. I had only set aside a couple of hours each week so there's no way I could have done those jobs as well!

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: David Barrett (IP Logged)
Date: 16/03/2010 17:09

I assume your two hours a week will be on a voluntary basis as well, as there are not many of us volunteers left now(Sm103)

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: gar (IP Logged)
Date: 16/03/2010 21:05

Why the agro di b, who are you getting at? The proponent of this idea or the person putting forward a heartfelt plea? It sounds a reasonable argument to me although I did think that kick off was before the welsh game and turned up in the bar to watch the london welsh game as I thought it might be on. If I'd realised that kick off was later then I'd have realized it wasn't a goer!

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: Shy1105 (IP Logged)
Date: 17/03/2010 08:30

The latter part of this thread: (Sm164)

I suppose it's been a while since we had some quality bickering round here..

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: nld (IP Logged)
Date: 17/03/2010 09:44

Quote:
Di Bark
I assume your two hours a week will be on a voluntary basis as well, as there are not many of us volunteers left now(Sm103)

Absolutely, it will be less hours than I was doing as a volunteer for the club last season.

Kelvin spoke to me a couple of weeks ago about wanting to get supporters more involved and proposed that we meet to discuss.

Hopefully things at the club will quieten down enough soon for this meeting to take place and we can work on a way to engage supporters more next season.

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: Rob McEvoy London Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 17/03/2010 13:29

Nigel

I wouldnt normally respond to such comment, having previously posted my email and telephone number on here.

The main reason we did not want Pirates TV to broadcast from ODP is that there was a chance that the club could be fined for doing so by Sky. I spoke to Doncaster, another club who didnt allow Pirates TV about this beforehand to research what was best for the club.

They stated that the main reason for not allowing the broadcast was because the host could face a fine from Sky for allowing broadcast against the contract with the main broadcaster. On investigation, a National League Rugby League Club incurred a seasons worth of fines for themselves and the other teams in the league a few seasons back.

To make sure the club didnt leave itself open to such liabilities, I asked the Pirates if they would cover any fine should it be incurred. They were confident that no fine would be levied, but declined to do so. This would leave us in a position of little gain and potentially big loss.

This was in addition to the lost gate revenue, beer revenue etc from fans choosing to watch the game on TV. I cannot comment on here about the problems linked to NH for legal reason, he did want to run the club as a business. The business plan centred on a drive to increase crowds, revenues and make the club more business like. Knowing what we know now it seems ridiculous I know.

However your point about Mr Hollinshead money being secure is superfluous. Having money to spend is not the same as wanting to throw it away on something that doesnt progress.
Quick progress on crowds was part of the business plan, and our early season crowds were well up on previous years.

To conclude, instead of losing gate revenue and incurring a 4 figure fine, if there had been interest, we would have paid the £6 for a feed to Pirates TV and had all the benefits you state. There was no interest in that option, mainly as it clashed with Wales vs Ireland we decided to go with that.

I know that this doesnt fit with your point of view. And I am sure I have made mistakes in other areas, but I believe I have fully and comprehensive answered the point that you have made regarding Pirates TV.

I am also certain that we could have had this discussion via private email or the telephone person to person.

I always find it easier to contact people by using their email or phone number, and do not understand why you would use this forum to do so.

I have also emailed this to you directly, but will post on here to inform everyone why we did this. If you would like to discuss this further, you have my email and telephone number.

Regards
Rob

Re: Pirates v London Welsh - Match Preview
Posted by: nld (IP Logged)
Date: 17/03/2010 13:40

Rob, received your email and will reply that way to keep further discussion off the board.

Nigel

EDIT: Just to add that I have previously always contacted you via phone or email, this time I was responding to comments you chose to make in a public forum and therefore I was entitled to respond in the same way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:03:17:13:54:53 by nld.

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