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Can't get anywhere with this but I had some random thoughts (which the question master may care to dismiss or otherwise) that might help others.

For bare knuckle fighting, the most famous participants were John L Sullivan and Gentleman Jim Corbett. Were either of these involved in the fight you mention?

Is a Vicerine the wife of a Viceroy? Is the BMJ the British Medical Journal in this context?

Despite much recent discussion about Kate O'Mara, I asume this is not a reference to Joanna Lumley but possibly a piano?

None of the combatants you mentioned were involved (allegedly)


correct
correct

Correct

Was the location of the fight - Pitchcroft in Worcester ?

Link?

The Vicereine is intriguing. It would be helpful if we could either dismiss or concentrate on Edwina, Countess Mountbatten.

The place where Joanna got her bits and pieces.

Cristofori is generally reckoned to be the inventor of the piano (well, made the crucial adaptation to the harpsichord). His sponsors were the Medici family in Florence. Is this a starting point?

Rob - Wrong Century

OSB you may dismiss Edwina

Medici/Florence is about as far from the starting point as you could get - as per Rob Wrong Century (by about 4) - "as Dr Who is to Torchwood" may be a clue



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:06:22:12:00:45 by St Marlowe.

Anyone any good at anagrams?

Quote:

In the place where Joanna got her bits and pieces, The hart took on a tooled heros hue

Heroshue...eehhorsu

Tooledheroshue...deeehhlooorstu...

Hartheroshue...aeehhhorrstu


Joannagother...aaeghjnnoort

I don't know if I have even picked the right combinations, I can't see anything in them. In the words of Midge Ure, "This means nothing to me!"

Looking at this again using the letters of heros hue you can get house with'her' left over.

With a relevance to a piano?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:06:22:15:38:41 by oddshapedballs.

Quote:

1.
This location, once hard by a railway, could be said to provide spiritual sustenance but is not to be confused with the site of an infamous bare-knuckle fight.

Once hard by a railway

Is this an indication that the place is no longer there or the the railway no longer exists? Or both?

The place could be said to provide spiritual sustenance. Crossword setters use phrases like this for homophones - words or phrases that sound the same and are much beloved by practitioners of charades (Give Us a Clue)

Church's and Churches?

Is the bare-knuckle fight real fisticuffs?

If the 19th century is incorrect, we ought to be looking earlier but that doesn't square with a railway (19th century invention). Bringing it to more recent times indicates the bare-knuckle fight ought not to be taken literally.

With a railway once hard by

homophones??? How very Dare you!!!

You are nearly there OSB - but I dont think you got there via the clue

Bare knuckle could mean that it was not premeditated - allegedly

Has the setter made a slight mistake? The alleged Bath vs Quins punch up is said to have taken place in the Pitcher and Piano, but the Bath players had been in The Church beforehand.

I still have a feeling that I am playing blind man's bluff here.

I think we are looking for three answers, possibly linked. I have parked the vicereine for the time being but I am mired in the other two.

Shaddo comes up with an interesting thought that the impromptu fight that did for Justin Harrison in one way or another could be key. The Church

Joanna=Piano...Pitcher and Piano...clumsy. I don't find it easy to put the answers to two clues so closely to one answer and where does that leave Doctor Who anagrammed with Torchwood?

Being told I'm close but not knowing to what or why is not the most hopeful position in which I have ever been.

OSB this is why i always try to give my questions a general title which is also a clue as to what the questions or answers may have in common or what links them ..
e.g " Femmes Fatales " & " Damned Colonials " last week

but Ive no idea what would be suitable here.

Title is perhaps - sustenance
shaddo. You are correct

the vicerine in question was also a regular in the hills
where might you find her referenced in a sustenance related location today?

Not Pitcher and Piano but a major employer in an outlying village



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:06:23:12:27:06 by St Marlowe.

No.3: Is that a reference to Pianoforte Supplies in Roade?

Bingo!

My Dad worked for them many moons ago...

Sustenance

A pub/club called 'The Church' not to be confused with the 'Pitcher and Piano' where it all kicked off later on. It would be most unlike St Marlowe to have 'Once hard by a railway' as a redundant phrase.

It looks to me as though we are pointing towards hostelries in some shape or form.

We have a location of Roade - well done Sarge - with a Hart and a 'tooled heros hue'. Perhaps St Marlowe's oblique reference to anagrams was not concerning this one. Can anyone provide a feasible example of a 'tooled hero?' The only pubs/inns/restaurants I know in Roade are The Cock, The George (now closed) and the Roade House. There's a White Hart along the road in Grafton Regis but I'm not sure that that is relevant - other than it contains the word 'Hart and a colour/hue - white.

The vicer(e)ine. If we discount mount bottom's lady, we take ourselves back to when the Viceroy's wife was just some sort of diplomatic appendage - Madam Sahib, as she was known. The difficulty with foreign tongues, accents and cross-cultural phonetic representation has led this particular style to be translated as Mem Saab.

The reference to the BMJ is puzzling although there is a Medical College in India named after Lady Dufferin, a 19th century Vicereine.

Correct OSB 4 points - 2 to Sarge for Pianoforte supplies.

Tidy up

Vicerine Dufferin. - all the menus in the mem saab chain are attributed to famous "madam sahibs" Vicerine Dufferin is assigned the deserts. She was a pioneer of women in medicine and was published in the British Medical Journal - BMJ. "The hills" is a reference to Poona, whence the nobs travelled to escape the heat of Calcutta and the plains.

"a tooled heros hue" = anagram Roadhouse Hotel - previously the White Hart

OK I got the location of the planks demise wrong, but "The Church" was always mentioned in connection with the fracas!

Over to you Little Billing!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:06:24:09:09:25 by St Marlowe.

Will post up my stuff later tonight

meanwhile i remain gobsmacked at both the fiendishness of St Ms questions and the research capacity available to certain respondents.

Most of mine will be easier that Davids

Wot no points for me, although I got part of the answer by spotting your mistake! Ref, you're having a shocker!

In the less than immortal words of Chris Tarrant, "They're only easy if you know the answers," OP.

Those of us that 'give it a go' find very little difference in fiendishness of the tortured mental processes through which the pair of you put us.

I am still reeling from not being able to grab Brazil from last week's jaunt. After all, I read about it on the wall of the Monte Palace Tropical Garden in Madeira only a couple of years ago. My fault, I should have paid more attention.

Paul you are correct
I award you the paper on which the questions were written.