So Long...
Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
So Long...
By Andy Brown May 6 2008
It has been announced on the official Leeds Carnegie web site in the last hour that Stuart Lancaster is to leave Leeds Carnegie at the end of the current campaign. This will end a sixteen year association with the club and sees him join the national set-up as Head of Elite Rugby Development.
So Long...
It has been announced on the official Leeds Carnegie web site in the last hour that Stuart Lancaster is to leave Leeds Carnegie at the end of the current campaign. This will end a sixteen year association with the club and sees him join the national set-up as Head of Elite Rugby Development.
While this is a fantastic opportunity for Stuart to operate at a high level in the national setup, and recognises his coaching credentials, Gary Hetherinton is none too pleased about the way in which he was recruited by the RFU.
It appears as though negotiations with Lancaster have been at an advanced stage for some time without the knowledge of the club. Hetherington doesn't disguise his distaste for the means in which Rob Andrew has approached this, and perhaps adds to the debate on the methods and mechanisms by which the RFU are recruiting for their national set-up; you only have to look at how Brian Ashton has been shifted sideways after repeated assurances that his job as head-coach was safe to be a little bit concerned by this approach.
However, we should also be mindful of the season we've had in 2008/9 as Leeds Carnegie fans. Many people, once relegation was mathematically confirmed, have called for a shake-up in the coaching structure here, with some calling for Lancaster's head, while others have been more moderate and suggested changes in the other coaching staff.
For me, this puts the cat among the pigeons. Lanny's reign has been one - as the song goes - of ups and downs; he got us promoted, and now we're relegated again. This will be the second time that a relegation has cost us the head man, albeit for different reasons, but this isn't a great way to create and maintain stability. Not the club's fault though, and the noises coming from Headingley are ascerbically positive.
So, who's in the frame? Apparently this has come as such a shock that no list has been drawn up, but they're looking for someone to be in place for 1st July, ready for the pre-season. As speculation will be rife, we can say that, dispite Phil Davies being sacked by the Scarlets barely a week ago, it is unlikely we will see his return to Yorkshire. Other "name" candidates will be wary of trying their luck in National 1 for a new club; most will want to go straight in at the top level, and as Newcastle are currently (at least technically) searching for a new DoR as well, I would imagine they would be the first draw to any southern hemisphere candidates.
To be honest, it's difficult to see who would come to fill Lanny's shoes. I would imagine this would be a job for someone looking to make their first step up, or from someone already coaching in National 1 wanting to see if they can take a professional club forward into the big time once again.
Lyn Howells anyone?
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
Interview with Gary Hetherington between 12:30 and 1 today, will be repeated as well later.
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
Good luck, Lanny.
As to the behaviour of the RFU, it falls far below what should be expected and Mr Baron and Mr Andrew should be hanging their heads in shame for their shoddy treatment of Leeds.
As to the succession, I hope they choose a big name capable of attracting key players from around the world.
As to the behaviour of the RFU, it falls far below what should be expected and Mr Baron and Mr Andrew should be hanging their heads in shame for their shoddy treatment of Leeds.
As to the succession, I hope they choose a big name capable of attracting key players from around the world.
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tykeman (IP Logged) Registered User |
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
Agree with the Prawn ... I believe we need a signing in this area of stature & maturity... somone the players can immediately relate to & respect .
Where does this leave the 8 or so signings ? I presume Lanny was central to negotiations. I presume that they are still on for Leeds ??
Whoever gets the job must have the contacts & reputation to draw players to Leeds.
Surely promotion from within or a Rhino's make-do is short of the mark?
This must count as a "wobble" but after the positivity of the last few weeks, I feel just a hint of fear at the back of my mind
Where does this leave the 8 or so signings ? I presume Lanny was central to negotiations. I presume that they are still on for Leeds ??
Whoever gets the job must have the contacts & reputation to draw players to Leeds.
Surely promotion from within or a Rhino's make-do is short of the mark?
This must count as a "wobble" but after the positivity of the last few weeks, I feel just a hint of fear at the back of my mind
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
I hope his new job goes well but i am pleased that it has happened. I think this is a real opportunity to do what Leeds should have done last time. There are lots of good name coaches available who would certainly fit the bill and have what the club needs to take us back to the top.
The timing i think smacks a lot though - PD did the same when he left, got rid of a number of good players then left...if this has been in advanced stages he has made huge decisions about the club when he must have known he was going. Depending on who they appoint will be the major factor in the future stability of the club, only time will tell.
The timing i think smacks a lot though - PD did the same when he left, got rid of a number of good players then left...if this has been in advanced stages he has made huge decisions about the club when he must have known he was going. Depending on who they appoint will be the major factor in the future stability of the club, only time will tell.
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
Dragon if we want somone who is only after short term success then that would be the wrong chocie but we do need somone who knows HOW to make us succesful if SL can take a squad and turn them round in 12 months i have confidence that a more seasoned DoR could as well...
Bates is good and Blackie
Callard is available and think he has a proven track record...and yes i know he has been at Leeds before but he was harnessed by PD...
Bates is good and Blackie
Callard is available and think he has a proven track record...and yes i know he has been at Leeds before but he was harnessed by PD...
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
JBird, like many others yesterday I was confident that with our current players plus our new signings we would probably get promoted back to the GP next year, now without a DOR and a chance that we will see no more signings I'm not so sure. Any new coach must be experienced and successful in the GP, I'm not convinced that any of your choices fit the bill. I've suggested on another thread that someone like Paul Hull might fit the bill after being at London Irish and Bristol for the past 5 years, but whether he or anyone else who is currently involved in the GP would want to move is debateable.
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
I suppose D it is someone who wants a challenge! I am sure there are good coaches out there who would break an arm to take Leeds up to where it can be. As we have said on numerous occasions the club has everything going for it in location, set up etc.
I think those who has backed Lannys vision (like Merry on the previosu thread) must be P*ssed. He has made a claim to build the identity of the club and then scarpered at the first opprtunity to do something better - or maybe he has realised it is not for him.
Whatever the reason Leeds Tykes are still there. Whatever you call them! There is stilla good core of players who have stayed loyal that still emulate the core values that make Leeds what it is.
I think those who has backed Lannys vision (like Merry on the previosu thread) must be P*ssed. He has made a claim to build the identity of the club and then scarpered at the first opprtunity to do something better - or maybe he has realised it is not for him.
Whatever the reason Leeds Tykes are still there. Whatever you call them! There is stilla good core of players who have stayed loyal that still emulate the core values that make Leeds what it is.
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
I agree with all that JBird I just find it difficult to put a positive spin on this news, we now go into the unknown, I have no doubt that Tom Biggs will move, I'm not as hopeful about new signings and now we have to find a new DOR, so forgive me if I don't feel as positive as you.
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
Good Luck to Lanny it's not every day a job of this calibre comes along.But what this means to Leeds Carnegie I don't know, but at the moment I don't feel very positive.Don't think they saw this in the five year plan either.Just hope that in a few year's time we still have a rugby union team in Leeds.
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
having read all the articles, its seems like a real bollox up!! rfu fault or not leeds need to be sorting it soon or next season will be on us.
SL mentioned he had put plans in for next year, new dor will prob have other ideas about that.
what about player recruitment?
good luck lanny in the new job.
at least the new dor might bring some more experienced coaches with him.....
SL mentioned he had put plans in for next year, new dor will prob have other ideas about that.
what about player recruitment?
good luck lanny in the new job.
at least the new dor might bring some more experienced coaches with him.....
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
This is going to be interesting who we get as a new coach. But we have got to get someone who has already being a coach in the GP if we get a NAT 1 coach this club isnt going to go where we should. If we get the right management and experiance this club could do really well it might not happen over night but we do have the ability.
Eddie O Sullivan.
Brian Ashton.
YOU NEVER KNOW.
Eddie O Sullivan.
Brian Ashton.
YOU NEVER KNOW.
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Bran (IP Logged) Registered User |
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
Dragon,
you made a comment about posible no more new signings, If there aren't any we wont have a first team so the problems over right now. There will be players coming, wether they are the ones we have been trying to bring in or not could be totally different. Leeds realy need to make some factual statements now regarding future players and negotiations. This has to be right at the top of the list. We have lost too many not to replace. This could also affect who wants to come into the job. If we have approached a team of has beens ( in the potential DOR opinion) he will be less likley to come along. A for Tom, well he may have had his mind made up by Stuarts departure, only time will tell on that one.
It's interesting to come home to a flier encouraging me to come and see the departure of Delagio next weekend. Sorry Leeds rugby, he has been a brilliant player, but I feel you have only applied to the nutural fans and not to any of the existing ones. That said, you've done jack all for the people who have been watching for the last ten years any way so why change now?
Who will we be waving off this weekend, Hooper, SL, Biggs?
you made a comment about posible no more new signings, If there aren't any we wont have a first team so the problems over right now. There will be players coming, wether they are the ones we have been trying to bring in or not could be totally different. Leeds realy need to make some factual statements now regarding future players and negotiations. This has to be right at the top of the list. We have lost too many not to replace. This could also affect who wants to come into the job. If we have approached a team of has beens ( in the potential DOR opinion) he will be less likley to come along. A for Tom, well he may have had his mind made up by Stuarts departure, only time will tell on that one.
It's interesting to come home to a flier encouraging me to come and see the departure of Delagio next weekend. Sorry Leeds rugby, he has been a brilliant player, but I feel you have only applied to the nutural fans and not to any of the existing ones. That said, you've done jack all for the people who have been watching for the last ten years any way so why change now?
Who will we be waving off this weekend, Hooper, SL, Biggs?
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
I'm not saying players wont be replaced Bran but presumably any discussions now taking place will probably be suspended until a new DOR has arrived. Because players need to know where they'll be playing next season we just may lose a few we were hoping to get. This is a black day for Leeds but good luck to Lanny he enjoys player development and has proved good at it.
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
JBird - Is Callard available?, as i'm sure he's still employed by the RFU in their new formatted coaching set-up ( i may well be wrong, but i'm sure that Johnson and Andrew were singing his praises at the Official launch interviews with the media of Martin Johnson). As for Eddie O'Sullivan, then i think that Freddy wouldn't know what to do, as he's in line for the Munster job when Deccy takes over the Ireland job - "Frying Pan to Fire" for Freddy i Think !!
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
I think that you want a new broom to sweep clean if appointed by a club - The "5 Year Plan" has bittten the dust along with Lancaster and the Premiership. New Ideas and a new way of thinking can only be of benefit to the club. I wasn't a big fan of getting rid of coaches just for the sake of it - but the decision has been made for you now and it's now a matter of waiting to see who comes fowards as candidates for the roles (as i expect the rest of the coaching staff to be further casualities of todays events)
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
You are correct Dragon, but the new dor would have to come in to any existing team with the pressence of mind to decide well he's good I'll keep him, or not impressed when I can I'll get rid. That's sport never mind at a pro standard. As I say, from my point of view, Leeds has now got a chance to kick on. wether or not leeds does is in part at the boards hands. They need to make those signings that they have been chasing, and make them soon, and they need to be the right ones ( I realise this is the same thing we were saying last week) This could stimulate a potential coach to give leeds a shot. where as a few ok players could be read as they have no ambition I'm not going there. The issues out of Leeds hands are a bigger concern. We have been religated twice, and are not yet stable, and do not appear to have anywhere near the funding required That WILL put of potential D'sOR
This could be the huge step in the right dirrection that leeds requires. Clearly , the coaching has been wrong this year, to a point, now there is the posibility of recifying, but likewise the chance to colapse!
This could be the huge step in the right dirrection that leeds requires. Clearly , the coaching has been wrong this year, to a point, now there is the posibility of recifying, but likewise the chance to colapse!
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
By the time we appoint a DOR, pre-season training would have begun and most of the better players would have sorted out their futures, at least in the short term. Much will depend on who if anyone we have been talking to, where we are with those negotiations, and was it Lanny or his vision what attracted them in the first place.
What annoys me most today is the few posters who've been looking for coaching changes IMO didn't really see the effect such changes might have.
What annoys me most today is the few posters who've been looking for coaching changes IMO didn't really see the effect such changes might have.
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
Really not looking for an arguement, but do you not feel we need to look at our defence and the way we have organised it this year? Vertualy every gp team uses league coaches for this, we are part of the biggest league club in the country if not world yet we cant defend?
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
Have a look at the squad phot, folks. There's more than Biggsy there. IF he goes I'll wail and gnash my teeth with the rest of you, but it's the TEAM in the shirts that will do the business at the end of the day.
I would like to have been a fly on the wall over the last couple of weeks, though.
I would like to have been a fly on the wall over the last couple of weeks, though.
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
Very good oopnorth!
To be fair to SL, if he stayd with us and failed with promotion, would he have had a job, if he had been promoted, and psibly religated the year after, would he have had a job? For thr RFU, he will have a fairly secure job, doing what he is very good at, with prospects of either a large settlement or a position to the side, in the event of them doing an 'Ashton'
SL is not a succesful DOR, he may or may not have what it takes to ever be one. For his family and stability the decission for him is easy.
Now it's Leeds turn to make a statement of intent..
To be fair to SL, if he stayd with us and failed with promotion, would he have had a job, if he had been promoted, and psibly religated the year after, would he have had a job? For thr RFU, he will have a fairly secure job, doing what he is very good at, with prospects of either a large settlement or a position to the side, in the event of them doing an 'Ashton'
SL is not a succesful DOR, he may or may not have what it takes to ever be one. For his family and stability the decission for him is easy.
Now it's Leeds turn to make a statement of intent..
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
Neither did SL. He did however build a side equally as good as Leeds last year (with a better pack) on more limited resources than SL.
I can't think of a present or past GP DOR who is available, never mind suitable.
Could think about Andy Robinson I suppose if his Edinburgh contract might allow it,
I can't think of a present or past GP DOR who is available, never mind suitable.
Could think about Andy Robinson I suppose if his Edinburgh contract might allow it,
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
Apart from taking a punt with the Bristol boys, I'd be inclined to wonder as to the future plans of Jon Callard and Nigel Mellville.
Bester would definitely foster the 'them and us' mentality, which may be popular in the dressing room but not in the greater picture.
Certainly no bigger names would figure, as they have got far more to lose than gain.
As an outside bet however, I'd consider looking at Ben Ryan the former Newbury coach who's currently with the England sevens squad.
Bester would definitely foster the 'them and us' mentality, which may be popular in the dressing room but not in the greater picture.
Certainly no bigger names would figure, as they have got far more to lose than gain.
As an outside bet however, I'd consider looking at Ben Ryan the former Newbury coach who's currently with the England sevens squad.
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
As someone who has defended Lanny against some of our grottier posters I feel slightly affronted that he has jumped ship at the first opportunity. " It is the only job I would leave Leeds for" Ballcocks! So much for a 5 year plan & all that commitment stuff.
I, for one hope Soops is right. Bester got blood out of stones at Roth & would do better with our squad & facilities.
"When the pressure comes on, which inevitably it will, it's important that everyone remains loyal to the direction we're going."
I, for one hope Soops is right. Bester got blood out of stones at Roth & would do better with our squad & facilities.
"When the pressure comes on, which inevitably it will, it's important that everyone remains loyal to the direction we're going."
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
If anyone is interested there is a small interview with Gary Hetherington on the BBC site if you click here.
He points out that the squad for next season is almost ready with new signings to announce, does a new DoR want his hands tied by players bought under the previous regime?
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He points out that the squad for next season is almost ready with new signings to announce, does a new DoR want his hands tied by players bought under the previous regime?
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
What a shambles. This makes a right mockery of all the talk of the '5 year plan' and the emphasis of player loyalty, team building etc. Is this really a 'just couldn't say no' killer job that comes along once in a lifetime?
I think we will struggle to appoint someone as good as SL and next season is going to be even tougher now.
I don't harbour any grudges (even with regard to Marshall, Balshaw et al) so good luck to the guy but this is very disappointing news.
I have no idea who we might appoint as a replacement. Not much £, not many good candidates around, no internal possibilities...
I think we will struggle to appoint someone as good as SL and next season is going to be even tougher now.
I don't harbour any grudges (even with regard to Marshall, Balshaw et al) so good luck to the guy but this is very disappointing news.
I have no idea who we might appoint as a replacement. Not much £, not many good candidates around, no internal possibilities...
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
Quote:Rocky The Tyke
If anyone is interested there is a small interview with Gary Hetherington on the BBC site if you click here.
He points out that the squad for next season is almost ready with new signings to announce, does a new DoR want his hands tied by players bought under the previous regime?
but it doesn't mean the new DoR won't be able to sign any more players a few to come in the middle should suffice
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
Quote:Loosehead
but it doesn't mean the new DoR won't be able to sign any more players a few to come in the middle should suffice
True, but the concern is that by the time appointments are made in the DoR position the players he wants may not be available. The next month will be very interesting.
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Re: Carnegie seeks New Director of Rugby
ok here goes i spoke with sl on sunday after the game ref signings, tom biggs and so on he said we have 3 confirmed signings that are just waiting to be announced and 2 more that are 90% confirmed he also spoke about the fact that we have tried to