Runners & Riders for the 2008/9 ND1 Championship

Whilst I agree that London Welsh will be much stronger next season I can't see them finishing ahead of Exeter, for me it's a 2 horse race between Leeds and Exeter, with early season results being the deciding factor.

I started reading this thinking it was a serious analysis! If it is can I have a quart of what you were drinking when you compiled it?

I know as a Roth fan i'm biased, but i think the prediction for Roth is a way off the mark. True we've lost a lot of players, but most of them were brought in by the previous coach and proved not to be even close to the standard required in ND1. Westy has now recruited quite a few proven ND1 performers, including players from nottingham and donny along with a couple of sedgelys better players. Hopefully we'll do a fair bit better this season.

Sorry guys from other clubs, some people who write on here have about as much rugby knowledge as a 3 year old girl. One of them wrote an article that Neil Back was 100/1 to get the Leeds job, another makes sweeping statements regarding personel in the rugby world getting them completely wrong, and one likes to think everything is merry all the time, when time and time again they are proved wrong. You'll be better off walking into your local supermarket and asking the opinions of the lady on the checkout.

Mmmm..... Chiefs 5th!

Snow on London weather centre on Midsummers day!

1159 gold medals at the olympics!

Amy Winehouse to win Miss UK!

All possible I suppose, but rather unlikely I think.

This is one man's guesses based on what we can see happening out in the glare of media (i.e. very little as far as ND1 is concerned). It may be wildly inaccurate, it may prove to be a little closer than some of us may wish to believe. Point is that it is at least a matter of record what Peter thinks about it today.... things may change tomorrow or in three months time, but today, it's this.

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My Prediction for the finishing positions:

Leeds
Exeter
Doncaster
London Welsh
Notts
Pirates
Bedford
Plymouth
Rotherham
Esher
Sedgeley Park
Moseley
Otley
Coventry
Manchester
Newbury

That's more likely Mark, I don't think you'll be far wrong. WHy didn't you do the article?

welcome back, fan.

did you enjoy your break as much as we did, fan?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:07:10:13:32:00 by merry.

I think i'd go along with Mark C's prediction although possibly Notts up a place or so.

you missed me then, seen nothings happened in my abscence. I was hoping you would spice it up a little for me Merry.

I'll agree with Dragon about the top end of the table. At the moment I write from South-West London and I've heard a couple of local comments about L. Welsh confidence and former top clubs being in for a few surprises!

I think Otley could well struggle despite the new signings - I hope not as they are my 'second-team'.

Red Bull - do you know if there any more potential signings in the pipe line? Is the current set up likely to be final for the no.10 spot?

Max Lewis has signed for them

According to the Middlesex 7's web site, we are the ND1 favorites!

Someone down south likes us!

Up the Carnegies !

Loosey - yes, I was pleased to see that. He had some excellent games toward the end of the season when on loan, seeming to improve from one match to the next. By the last couple of games he was a stand-out player in ND2 - it will be very interesting to see how he copes in ND1 as he did well for the county team too.

I think it will be tighter than people think and we're by no means guaranteed promotion at a canter. Remember who many players are going and how many are coming in to replace then...

Your bullets cannot harm me! My wings are like a shield of Steel!

5th place hmmm maybe ! NOT !!!!!! All I can say is we can't wait for the season to start.

I think you're gonna need your A game otherwise you're in the @#$%& !

Bring it on !

1st ?
2nd ?
3rd ?

don't claim to have the answers however expect it to be tighter than ever before. a number of clubs have improved their squads some with proven talent others with up and coming talent.its not going to be like last years northampton's parade around the clubs.
there will be twists and turns while we all put the new rules into our games. all the best to all i say .

come on albion you know it makes sense 8th ?

It looks like the ELV rules have been binned

Not at Exeter. Any thing can happen this season with the new ELV rules and lots of changes at all clubs. It's a lot different then when you were in Div1 last time

One big difference for us this time around is we are not starting the season with a whole new set of players like our last visit to ND1. We have a squad that have had a season of GP intensity rugby in them, several players with a few seasons. The players we recruited for GP were all players that had stood out in ND1. These players can only have developed from last years experience so once again will shine. A few new faces have come in that add to the squad and I'm sure a few more will come on board yet. Leeds are a far better prepared team for this season than they were two years ago.

I agree 100% with you there Olliek. Also the players we have added to the squad are mainly all GP players and the ones we need to add will be like that aswell

Quote:

Orange Feather
Not at Exeter. Any thing can happen this season with the new ELV rules and lots of changes at all clubs. It's a lot different then when you were in Div1 last time

Exeter may need to revert back to the old laws as England looked to have binned the ELV Aussie news

Loosehead what has happened is that it was initially thought all of the ELVs would be trialled in the Anglo/Welsh farce including handling in the ruck and most offences downgraded to free kicks rather than penalties ("the most contentious") whereas all the rest of Northern Hemisphere Rugby would trial most of the rest including pulling down the maul, no number requirements at the lineout, offside line 5 metres back from the scrum etc.

The latter will still take place but the clubs said it was a nonsense to try the other rules in the Anglo/Welsh tournament as it would be confusing. They have therefore declined to trial those although they will be using the others.

Loosehead's reference to Mr O'Neill's comments show a fascinating insight into how the men at the IRB and certain others treat the ordinaries in the game with utter disdain. On 1st May 2008, the IRB Council announced the ELV's would be trialled in the NH for the new season. At the same time the RFU was conducting a global survey (between 24/4/08 and 9/5/08); the eventual survey received over 18 thousand replies from 82 different countries. One of the results of the survey showed that 74% of respondents believed that for the professional game there were too many ELV changes proposed to be trialled simultaneously. Whilst the members of the IRB Council obviously knew of this survey, they were too arrogant to wait for soundings from interested parties. It seems to me there is little doubt that certain people are trying to steamroller through these law changes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:07:22:13:39:01 by prawn cocktail.

Leeds
Exeter
Pirates
Doncaster
Notts
London Welsh
Bedford
Moseley
Plymouth
Rotherham
Esher
Coventry
Sedgeley Park
Otley
Manchester
Newbury

I think one or two are writting the pirates off to quickly. we have a good side and have some stregnth in depth.

I don't think many are writing the Pirates off, I just don't think you are as strong as 2 years ago, you are still a strong side and I can see a top 4 finish

Antbody writing Pirates off does so at their peril. The Cornish fans are worth an extra man on the pitch and the away support must be the envy of everyone else in the league.

Saying that, there have been some big boots to fill over the last couple of seasons, and it will be interesting to see how the massive hole left by the departure of Tim Cowley is managed. Pirates have always had a solid pack of forwards, if they can get their centres firing then a productive season is on the cards.

With regard to the Pirates, the comment ".......acts as a feeder club for it’s wealthy neighbours across the Tamar" strikes me as a bit of a strange statement.

Every ND1 club (particularly if they have players of quality) will always experience comings and goings. Yes we have lost 2 quality players to Exeter ( who have been "splashing the cash" so to speak in an effort to gain the promotion they feel they deserve), but we have also lost Tim Cowley to Bourgoin ( in the top flight in France). I vaguely remember us losing a couple of guys to some team in West Yorkshire fairly recently as well when they were in the GP. If we are a feeder club at all then it is to GP clubs, as are all ND1 clubs

I think that the next 2 years will be ones of consolidation for the CPs both on the pitch and off it. Like all clubs who have experienced comings and goings it will be interesting to see how well the new team "gels". If it "gels" well then, with the support that Mark C and many others have encountered, there is no reason why we should not be "there or thereabouts" come April.

I cannot see any team " doing a Northampton" in 2008/9

"May the road rise with you"

Quote:

I cannot see any team " doing a Northampton" in 2008/9

I disagree if any team were to add a number of more high quality players then thiscould be done, they might not score the total points but they could quite easily win 28-29 games next season.

If Leeds were to add 5 quality players of GP/S14 expereince in the key positions then who knows

Hello Loosehead

Statistically, yes a team could "do a Northampton" I guess. And I suppose on paper it could be Leeds

But in saying that you are pre supposing a few things......

1. That you are able to keep the vast majority of your GP squad when you come down ( even Northampton did not manage this, though with the likes of Carlos Spencer etc. they were still too strong for even the best equipped ND1 squad)

2. That the standard of every team in ND1 has remained the same since the previous season ( or since the last time Leeds where in ND1). Most seasons seem to throw up a "surprise package" ( in the eyes of some it was London Welsh last season) that punches above its apparent weight.

3. That ex GP and S14 players would want to make the step down to ND1 when they could possibly still play at the top level in France, for example ( Toulon have recruited aggressively recently on this basis !)

On paper, with the resources available to you, you should return to the GP at the first time of asking. But I don't think it would be done "easily"

To use a filthy 'orrible cliche " Rugby isn't played on paper !"

"May the road rise with you"



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008:07:24:23:35:56 by Captain Blood.

In answer to your questions

1. We have, only Hooper has gone

2. Makes no difference Nat1 improves every year, but the GP is a far higher standard & Nat1 teams have their hands tied.

3. If there were the case then most GP Teams and T14 would have squads 50-60 players when this is not the case look around most of the top teams they have shed a number of players more and more players come and go and nto all end up in the GP or T14

Morning Loosehead......

In answer to "Point 1"....... Fair play.... I'm glad to see that you have been able to keep your players on longer term contracts than we were able to do with a certain Mr. Steenson ( for example !).

2. What did you mean by " "Nat1 teams have their hands tied", by the way?

I agree with you that the standard in the GP being so much higher than ND1. If no other club proved that it was Northampton !.

But one thing to bear in mind is that the majority of clubs in the last 5 years that have won ND1 have managed to stay in the GP once they got there. This has not been the case with Leeds.

Would I be too much of a heretic to suggest that your current set up might be more suitable for ND1 than the GP at this point? (bearing in mind that only Hooper has gone).

We all like to speculate about the coming campaign ( lets face it there 'aint much else to do in the "off season" apart from boast of your own chances and maybe gently "wind up" other supporters ) but I still think it would be unwise for any club to assume that they had the league won even before the pre season friendlies have started, particularly by a 28 or 29 game margin.

"May the road rise with you"

Loosey much as I admire your optimism, Loosey, I've got to pick you up on your last answer.

1) We've lost more than Stuart Hooper, through retirements and releases. And the failure to sign Adam Balding is a big blow.

2) Yes, there is a big difference between the GP and ND1. But to be fair, with one or two exceptions we were not a GP-standard squad ourselves. I am not surprised that one or two of the ND1 sdes fancy their chances at attaining Premiership status at our expense.

Recruitment and RETENTION will be crucial to our fortunes this season. We appear to have made immense signings off the field, with the arrival of our new coaching team. Hopefully some similar signings on the park will give us the same impetus. The first four matches of the season will be crucial in putting a marker down for the remainder of the campaign. IF we can beat Nottingham on the opening day, and get something from Exeter, we will hopefully command a little more deserved respect from our rivals.

Hooper was our only player to leave, Balding was never ours to lose we only had him on loan and yes whilst it would have been nice to him he was a signed Leeds player.

2. Capt Blood by this i mean Leeds have more money due to the parahute payment.

The bit about player retention is interesting. We have lost some good players and of course no-one could have known we would also lose a month or so of recruitment time whilst we had no DoR.

Unless there are some truly remarkable signings in the next month we won't be doing a Saints, although even if we sign no more players we should win, albeit in the style of 06/07 ie won't be easy.

tbh, i'm not too fussed about a parade to promotion a la saints as last time we were in nd1, with all the twists and turns, it was the most enjoyable season i've had since way back (excepting the final month of 04/05).

whilst it would be useful to do a saints and be unbeaten through the season to lay down a marker, i can't see it happening. but then i doubt we'd struggle to recruit as much as last time even if we were to end up being promoted even later than last time.

more players will be available than last season due to it not being a rwc year and, no disrespect to lanny, but i think more players would be attracted to our current coaching set up.

but let's get our priorites right. we've got to win the opening match first.

I would suggest that to state that most of the Div 1 winners of the last five years have managed to stay up is a bit misleading!

Most of the Div 1 winners over this period of time have been established Premiership clubs that were relegated from the Premiership the previous season!

In real terms, only Worcester & Leeds have gone into the Premiership the hard way (from way down in the lower echelons) and both these sides have struggled to come to terms with the level of competition in the top Division. Most of the teams that have gone up have in effect 'gone back up' including Leeds!

I take your point regarding Worcester and Leeds J6/7, but I think its fair to say that even last year Worcester(who have struggled themselves over the last couple of seasons in the GP) looked more of a GP club than Leeds.

Even if Leeds win ND1 with a 28 or 29 win haul ( a la Loosehead) there is always the possibility that they will become a perpetual " yo yo " club ( a bit like Watford,and West Brom in "wendyball"), too good for the second tier but not good enough to stay in the top tier.

I've a lot of time for Leeds RU ( in its different incarnations) having lived for 18 years in Chapel Allerton until 2003 so I make my comments more out of concern than the desire to wind folk up!

"May the road rise with you"

Captain

The possibility of being a "yo-yo" club is in the back of all our minds at the moment. However we have just acquired a young & ambitious management team who give me cause to be optimistic. If we get back up next season ( and it is by no means certain) then I think we will not make the mistakes that we made last season.

Well, up till Christmas, Wuss never won a game! Tykes did (against Wuss)

1: Exeter
2: Doncaster
3: Leeds
4: Nottingham
5: Pirates
6: Rotherham
7: Bedord
8: Welsh
9: Plymouth
10: Coventry
11: Manchester
12: Esher
13: Otley
14: Sedge
15: Moseley
16: Newbury

. Nice one B and S. I'm surprised you didn't put Roth above Leeds, as well.

If they did then we would have known that it a joke post.

May be it hasn't filtered through to South Yorkshire yet that we've just made a signing that will improve further our chances of going back up.

Not a lot ever filters through to certain quarters of South Yorkshire. LOL

To put the original analysis into perspective, check out this link for the actual odds.

For a really thoughtful view of the prospects, look at the finishing positions from last season. The league finished in bands. The interest is in whether some will swap bands and the order of finishing within those bands. It will be especially interesting to see if what used to be a top six is reconstituted. Last season was Saints on their own, Exeter and Nottingham slugging it out to the death and then another little group.

Anyone who thinks that the newly promoted teams are not favourites to go straight back down needs to consult a phrenologist. While the gap betwen NL1 & NL2 isn't the same yawning chasm as the gulf between this division and the Prem, it takes some bridging.

Anyone who thinks that the old days of loans are like what happens today is fooling themselves. The loans take place for the period of the loan. The biggest problem is that there is an inevitable turnover in the close season. Good work done with a player in one season isn't rewarded with the experience he gained because he's replaced by some new guy who's as green as the other one was.

The clubs that took clutches of loan signings last season may have a patchy start to this one. One thing is for certain, by the end of the season, those clubs will have enhanced their finishing places having had the benefit of some quality young players. It may not make them title challengers but, as Moseley and Esher showed, you can have some good times when not haunted by the prospect of relegation.

As Leeds fans there is one question you should be asking yourselves - is Carnegie team that starts this season as good as the Tykes team that scraped promotion two seasons ago?

This league has moved on since then. There are more clubs out there tooled up to do the job. If you show weakness, you will be sandbagged. Most of the top half of last year's division will fancy taking at least one game off you. Exeter and Nottingham won't set their sights so low.

If it's tough losing a whole string of games you have come not to expect to win, it's harder still taking a beating from clubs for which you show neither understanding or respect. They've moved on - have you?

Yes we have, as you have said the team with continuity of players not one season loaners will be stronger from the off.
The major proportion of our squad have had at least a season together and a some a few seasons. If you look back two years ago when we scrapped it, we started with a whole new squad I can't remember the exact numbers but we had in the region of 6 or 7 players. So what that team achieved in winning promotion was exceptional.
This current squad has been considerably strengthened since then. While I fully expect there to be some twists and turns to the season the question is has Exeter recruited and strengthened enough. As nearly all our team has GP experience and experience of playing together which you rightly hold so high.
Leeds will be the team to beat next year that is not saying nobody is capable of doing so.

We have only been out of ND1 for a year. Whilst certain teams have moved on the League isn't that different to what it was last time. I have no doubt that clubs like Exeter and Nottingham have improved in the last 15 months. People outside Leeds seem to forget that two years ago we literally started with half a dozen senior squad members from the previous season; and if you saw us play our first league game against London Welsh it looked like nobody had played professional rugby before. Incidentally, in the Yorkshire Cup semi-final in April, the Leeds Academy side competed against a full Donny team; it was only in the last 20 minutes that Donny pulled away.

The culture under Phil Davies and Stuart Lancaster was always to show respect for the opposition; I expect the new management to carry on this tradition.

OSB the answer is yes Leeds are far better than 2 years ago in almost every department we are equal if not better than we were 2 years ago

Here's the key point, Leeds signed 'The Best' of what National one had to offer last season who have now had one season playing together at another level entiterly. Add to that Myall, Clark, and Biggs who are future England prospects. Signings made prior to last season are there in Blackett, who was the best 12 in National One 2 years ago. Add Henry Paul and Jason Strange and Southern Hemisphere talent coming in, Leeds SHOULD win it at a canter. 2 or 3 defeats I expect. You can add having a World Cup winner leading the bunch as well.

I too feel that Leeds must be favourites for promotion, however a good start is all important. Despite recent signings we are still understrengh in key areas and should we get a few injuries during our pre-season friendlies then the first few games of the season could be difficult. The majority of this side has been together for 2 years and that gives us a slight hedge against clubs that have been active in the Transfer market.

Baring in mind, Clark is banned, Myall is injured for a while, Balding left. We have Fourie, Oackley, and JD as fit Back row players. That must mean we have players coming in in the back row. Plus we don't have a decent 9 and cover on the wings is from people who play elsewhere. Watch this space for new arrivals in these positions. Some of the signings Lancaster made before he left are best described as questionable.

Oakley, Oakley, spell it right FUN

Don't forget Danny Paul he sometimes seems to be forgotten man he had some good games when he stepped in for JD. Another flanker who can play 6/7 would not go amiss either.

Sorry Drogan.

Theres no question for the sake of the club we have to have Promotion this season, look at Northampton i know they kept most of there players and alot of them were GP players but they won 30/30 and won the final of the EDF cup a Twickers we should only lose 3 at the most this season.

Do you think we could get to the final this year ?

For me to make the final of the EDF would be nice day out but I would prefer promotion.

Would have to disagree FOR Blackett was not the best 12 when we were in ND1, he broke his leg at Newbury which was about 5/6 games in.

We have a strong starting 15 who have played well together over the past 2 years. We have been lucky to retain most of the players we should have though there are some that should not have been let go.

If you look at who we have from out starting 15 from the last 2 years there will be consistency which is what was missing last time, a bunch of lads who have played well as a unit.

The difference is this time they have a much better standard of coaching, solid expereinced players coming in and hopfully a change in culture where having a go and not winning is not tolerated and aggression, skills and successs is applauded.

Humility is importanat but we want a team who have the fire in their belly and want to smash the poo put of the opposition...!

i think FOR means when Blackett played for Roth

Quote:

JBird

The difference is this time they have a much better standard of coaching, solid expereinced players coming in and hopfully a change in culture where having a go and not winning is not tolerated and aggression, skills and successs is applauded.

I think that this is the key difference to last time in ND1.

and the smashing of the poo!!

I think we will lose more than 3. Next season will not be the walk over you seem to think.

I am hoping for some good entertaining games but the primary emphasis been win at all costs whatever it takes. Ball up the jumper forward play when it is needed no matter how unsavoury that might be. There will be games when the plan can be more expansive but I just want wins to start with and then look to entertain more as confidence grows.

The first game against Nottingham will be very very tough. The players need to focus on what happened against Doncaster last time round and make sure there is no repeat. its got to be quick out of the blocks brutal rugby and plenty of poo

I think you mean London Welsh. rather than Doncaster, oh well, there's always one.

Freddy we are in a far stronger position than 2 years ago, and looking at the teams in Nat1 I really can't see us losing more than 3 next season I also think we will pick up more BP this time around.

What we lacked against London Welsh was a flyhalf to control the game we now have 2 players capable of doing this.

-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:07:30:21:19:07 by Rotherhamthruandthru.

I cant wait for the season to start now....see how the team lines up...strategy and tactics etc and then after 4 or 5 games we will have a much clearly vision of how its going to pan out. Another couple of players before the start will do nicely

As OSB commented, the person who thinks that the promoted team will not come straight back down again (statistical facts) needs to consult a phrenologist. A similar statistic applies to the team relegated. They will go back up!

All this proves is we need a 14 club GP

This is such a contentious thread that both Exeter & Pirates are running threads debating it. Our friend Loosehead is prominent as the debate rumbles on.

Given all that has been said above I despair of Exeter ever making the Premiership. It's clear that we can't ever compete with the likes of Leeds. I think I will ask for a refund on my ticket now and go and watch Wessex (another Exeter club) next season.

Thanks guys you've ruined my life.

Jim,

I sincerely hope that our random meanderings have not caused your quality of life to weaken...

The simple facts (based on observation of relegation ad promotion since the Premiership began) are that the team being relegated has a unfair advantage financially over those they compete against and, ironically, the team that is promoted has an unfair disadvantage over those teams they compete against.

While this is the case, it is inevitable that the team in question will bounce between National 1 and the Premiership, and that's without all the other factors at play here.

Please do not interpret what we say as arrogance, though I concede tat it must appear that way sometimes. We are optimistic of promotion, based on how well we did last time with a much weaker squad. While I'm sure that the league has improved in a year, the Premiership had improved more in the year we were out of it and our team now know what the standard must be to survive in it. I have spoken to several of our players and they want to be back there

Fans of other National 1 teams must expect a hard year.

Lard and prard

Help the LCSA: Use our online mall

Timofe said

'The simple facts (based on observation of relegation ad promotion since the Premiership began) are that the team being relegated has a unfair advantage financially over those they compete against and, ironically, the team that is promoted has an unfair disadvantage over those teams they compete against.'

You are absolutely correct in what you say Timofe. I for one have always felt that perhaps next season will be the better chance for Exeter as the likelyhood is that a financially weak club such as Newcastle or Bristol could be relegated. Relegation for either of these 2 clubs could prove catastrophic, at least in the short term, giving a ND1 team the opportunity to get promoted. I have used Bristol & Newcastle as examples because they are the 2 favourites for the drop but there are several other Prem. teams running with substantial losses for whom relegation would/could prove to be extremely serious. It's not very nice wishing financial collapse on another Rugby club but this is the way of pro. sport. Its the money that keeps the 13 prem teams in place and it's likely it will be money that will be the undoing of at least one of them.

BTW my views as stated above do not mean that Exe shouldn't keep trying to win ND1. By giving maximum effort within what we can afford we are effectively probing for weaknesses in whoever comes down. Leeds will need to be on their mettle to win the league this year but you are definitely the favourites.

Hopefully it will go to the wire, then who knows what might happen !

Whilst it's true that the relegated team has a massive financial advantage, may i point out that we at roth must have been ahead of the times in taking this advantage and still overcoming it by having a rubbish ground and so not going back up. Outstanding achievemnet i think you'll agree.

As I have said before, Roth were hard done by, even if they have or had a 'rubbish' ground... Simply because they went up to the Prem, got relegated, and then walked away with Div 1 again, but were denied the chance to go back up because their ground was judged to be none compliant! Even though they had been in the top league the previous season!

However, it does reinforce the 'stats' in as much as the relegated team usually wins the Div 1 and the promoted team struggles massively! Look at Leeds & Worcester. (They are really the only promotion teams who have gone up without coming down the previous season)

As to the 'money' factor, I wonder how many seats you need to fill on a regular basis to become self sufficient?

The fan base at Saints is colossal, although that in itself did not keep them up!

This is not being patronising in anyway but I look at Exeter position as this moment in time and they strength wise as strong as Leeds were 2 seasons ago, they are building a very strong squad, hopefully Leeds will be strong enough to win Nat1 but Exeter's squad with an additional key player or 2 will be the team to beat if they are in Nat1 next season.

From a fans perspective, I wonder which the majority prefer of the following...

Div 1 and regularly (like mainly) winning games, or Premiership and getting hammered week in and week out?

GP no question eventually we will win more

Neither J6/7. Winning games in the GP. Can I just say how interesting and knowledgable I find your postings, I think you are a great asset to the board.

FOR2 Welcome to the site, I feel that James Hook is a world class No 10 and Danny Cipriani is overrated what do you think.

You ef***NG WE&**Sh TWI!&&. Oh sorry, not aloud to do that anymore.

Sir,

You are entitled to your opinion (however wrong it is).

regards

FOR2.

Your Back, that's Great.

My top three finish ,outside looking in.

1.Exeter Chiefs
2.Bedford
3.Nottingham

Plymouth Bred,Plymouth Born.

C'mon Albiiioooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

Outside, looking in through frosted windows, I think

Good call Balion! This has been the best thread for years.

Looking at our pre season games and the first home game of the season I am a bit more confident going to Exeter away

come the Exeter game we will have played Connacht away, Newcastle, Home, Sale Away,Nottingham home 4 very strong teams which means we will have to been switched on early.

The Cheifs have played Bristol Home, Launceston away and Esher in their 1st game of the season I am not sure who their other pre season fixture was against.

By the teams meet we will have played 4 hard gmaes in as many weeks and should be ready for the Challenge

So i read into this Loosehead that you think Esher and CAB's will not be hard games and you have already beaten Nottingham.

No what you need to read into it is Esher is Nat1 side, CAB are Nat2 Newcastle is a GP Sale are top 5 GP side, nor did I say we have beaten Nottingham.

What I am actually saying is we will have had a harder pre season faced stronger opposition with a number of Internationals by the time we play Exeter we will have faced Notts who last season finished 3rd against Esher who finished lower down.

We will have played 5 strong sides on successive weekends so we will have got into the rhythm of our game plan by the time we face Exeter

At this moment, it looks good for both the Chiefs & the Tykes (on present form) and it doesn't look too good for either Bristol or Falcons, as they are at or close to the bottom of GP and have both been beaten by Div 1 sides!

If any Div 1 team beat a GP side, then that is a strong indication of their aspirations - it might well be that who wins this early meeting will win the league (not to disparage the other title hopefuls) it will certainly be a sizzler!

I reckon its going to be Bristol dropping this season, and Tykes going up - just!

Call me old fashioned...

After 2 games the form (+ common sense) indicates:

1st Leeds
2nd Bedford
3rd London Welsh
4th Exeter
5th Nottingham