A lot to say....
Notes From Down Under 1: Why Ian McGeechan Is Wrong
A lot to say....
By "Fan of Rugby"
May 23 2009
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a new author and regular columnist in our midst (or, to be more accurate, about 12,000 miles away, but still managing to raise the bile of a number of regulars on the messageboard). Yes indeed, in the first of a series of reports from his nirvana down under, the very lovely "Fan of Rugby" cogitates, ruminates and pontificates on the British & Irish Lions tour.
A lot to say....
May 23 2009
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a new author and regular columnist in our midst (or, to be more accurate, about 12,000 miles away, but still managing to raise the bile of a number of regulars on the messageboard). Yes indeed, in the first of a series of reports from his nirvana down under, the very lovely "Fan of Rugby" cogitates, ruminates and pontificates on the British & Irish Lions tour.
I sit wondering away a late Autumn's day in the Southern Hemisphere where the water goes down the wrong way (something Clive Woodward would have fixed), with my thoughts clearly on the most anticipated rugby tour of all time. Many views have been aired on the subject on this board over the last 12-18 months, with only mine being worthy of discussion. Only the odd threat of violence and court date summons have been mentioned, but the day is almost upon us. Dragon would go for his 20 Welsh players before he saw how Wales were embarrassed by the Saffers 12 months ago; Merry would refuse to be so immature and comment. Catchy didn't care as long as he got some quotation marks down somewhere, as his countrymen were all over-rated, but your resident Oracle knew otherwise. You may think I have a crystal ball or some sort of futuristic computer program, but gentlemen and ladies, all you have to blame is my mother.
I championed a certain O'Driscoll's cause from the outset. He is the Lions chance. If he cuts lines, tackles and turns over ball like he can, then we have a chance. Take yourselves back to when D'arcy and BOD were turning over ball like good opensides, adding another dimension to their respective teams. For me they showed a transition in the game, where a back could not only score and tackle, but disrupt at the breakdown. Defensive coaches and offensive coaches suddenly had to change the way they thought. Brian can break a line off slow ball, that's what a world class player can do. The decision to not pick him as captain is the wrong one, as it was he who won Ireland their first Grand Slam since Dragon was in nappies, and it was he who got Leinster to the Henieken Cup Final. Although O'Connell is World Class, there is no doubt, the big ginge, doesn't have the X factor that Brian does. O'Connell can work away but is he going to score you a 60 metre try from absolutely nothing? It is such things and match winning capabilities I would look to as a player.
The selectors have gone for a squad that looks to fight fire with fire. This is a mistake. As I write Tom Croft has replaced Alan Quinlan. The non-selection of Croft has been proved over the last few weeks to be the wrong one. He adds the dynamism I think they need in the back-row to compete and adds an option against the best line-out in world rugby. Jamie Heaslip and Martin Williams will be harshly done by to not have the 7 and 8 shirts come Test match kick off. It will be at the breakdown where the series will be won and lost, and there is no point selecting players to win at the breakdown if they are 20 metres away breathing out of where certain posters speak from. No, pick the best and the in-form players that would have been my selection criteria. They would have been wise to have been reading TykesRugby.co.uk, instead of obviously downing a few bottles of wine and picking guys who they thought could win fights. I for one know the Saffers are the toughest men on the planet, and they happen all to be incredible athletes. Against Burger, Spies and Smith we haven't got a snowball's chance in Sydney ladies and gents, but you will hear me from Sydney shouting the lads on, whether they be Irish, English or Welsh. Apparently a few token Scots were picked, but surely just to try and confuse the Boks at Lineout time, or to add to the tours alcohol bill at the infamous 'court sessions'.
There are many questions to be answered. Who's going to get to do the player cams for the DVD? When's it out? Were nappies invented when dragon was a baby, and more importantly when will he make his first correct statement on the board? Loosehead's geting very close to coherent sentences these days so the world is looking up.
I'll be back with another glimpse from a genius in due time, but for now there are things to be done. The surf is too rough for FOR today and the weather an arctic 22 degrees, so you will be finding your resident philosopher in the pub opposite, where I do believe it's naked Thursday. Unfortunatley the girls are more to Dragon's liking than FOR's but I will be consoling myself in the 1 pound schooners. Oh, I have been told Merry has picked up some names that he sort of likes and we'll be seeing the much anticipated 'Merry 22' posted before long.
A Bientot for now.
xx
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Stumbleupon| 23 May, 2009 16:04 | Report |
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TykesRugby.co.uk (IP Logged) Unregistered User |
Notes From Down Under 1: Where Ian McGeechan Got It Wrong
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| 23 May, 2009 17:56 | Report |
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Date Joined: Sep, 2003 Location: Posts: 5735 |
| 23 May, 2009 19:14 | Report |
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Cunning |
Date Joined: Mar, 2005 Location: Posts: 1291 |
Re: Notes From Down Under 1: Where Ian McGeechan Got It Wrong
Excellent 
Regardless of your opinions of FoR, you've got to admit that this is a top notch, well written article. And a nice dash of humour too.
Looking forward to more over the summer (I guess winter for you FoR) months.
Still a Tyke - whatever the name!
Regardless of your opinions of FoR, you've got to admit that this is a top notch, well written article. And a nice dash of humour too.
Looking forward to more over the summer (I guess winter for you FoR) months.
Still a Tyke - whatever the name!
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| 23 May, 2009 19:30 | Report |
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hg2 tyke (IP Logged) Registered User |
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| 23 May, 2009 19:46 | Report |
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Registered User |
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| 23 May, 2009 20:10 | Report |
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Original Cult |
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| 24 May, 2009 04:20 | Report |
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FOR2008 (IP Logged) Registered User |
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Re: Notes From Down Under 1: Where Ian McGeechan Got It Wrong
I quite like Hook actually, prefer for Mr Armitage to have gone, and he still might, but I suppose Hook has the all important international goal kicking experience. He's still a bit loose to play at 10, but he does have that X factor, something I think they need. A surprise inclusion maybe in at 15??? Drags will be a happy man.
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| 24 May, 2009 04:33 | Report |
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Ready for anything! |
Date Joined: Dec, 2006 Location: Up hill and down Dale Posts: 3838 |
| 24 May, 2009 06:03 | Report |
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Registered User |
Date Joined: Apr, 2007 Location: Posts: 4473 |
Re: Notes From Down Under 1: Where Ian McGeechan Got It Wrong
I Stand by the View that This is the Best Season O'Driscoll has had in 4 Years and he hasn't produced the goods since returning from the injury sustained on the last Lions Tour. Some people are natural leaders, and Paul O'Connell seems to be one of those players that it comes natural to - The Captaincy of Ireland and all that goes with it doesn't suit Brian, in my view, as his form seems to suffer at times due to the added responsibility ? (Cullen leading Leinster seems to have freed Brian up more to concentrate on his game)
I also have to agree that Quinlan was very fortunate to be selected by McGeechan in the first place, as many would select Leamy over him for Munster as well as Ireland on present form, which was the criteria that Ian laid down as a "pre-requisite" for selection. As many will know, I don't have a very high opinion on past-reputations and previous games of players, as you have to make every game as good as your last one - if not even better and for that reason, the Irish have failed to live up to previous high expectations one Grand Slam in 61 Years with the talent that has emerged from the Country is a shocking statistic and I defend the right to criticise my Country for that fact, Much to the bemusement of "Fan".
I also have to agree that Quinlan was very fortunate to be selected by McGeechan in the first place, as many would select Leamy over him for Munster as well as Ireland on present form, which was the criteria that Ian laid down as a "pre-requisite" for selection. As many will know, I don't have a very high opinion on past-reputations and previous games of players, as you have to make every game as good as your last one - if not even better and for that reason, the Irish have failed to live up to previous high expectations one Grand Slam in 61 Years with the talent that has emerged from the Country is a shocking statistic and I defend the right to criticise my Country for that fact, Much to the bemusement of "Fan".
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| 24 May, 2009 08:48 | Report |
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FOR2008 (IP Logged) Registered User |
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Re: Notes From Down Under 1: Where Ian McGeechan Got It Wrong
Catchy, you have to appreciate players play at 60-70% fitness just for the benefit of the team, and we as fans wouldn't necessarily know or be able to tell. In the case of BOD, he has consistently put everything he has into games of rugby, and I can't say that for every player. For Ireland at times, I've never seen a more impressive athlete in that respect.
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| 24 May, 2009 09:22 | Report |
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Registered User |
Date Joined: Apr, 2007 Location: Posts: 4473 |
Re: Notes From Down Under 1: Where Ian McGeechan Got It Wrong
I Think You'll Find "Fan" That Brian Hasn't Put as Much Effort Into his performances in a Green Jersey as he should have done over the past Four Years prior to this Season. Agreed, he's been injured for a good spell of that time, but he's also not played through the injuries at the 60-70% as you would suggest - remembering that i work with Mike McGurn, his former fitness coach at Irish Rugby.
Within the same timescale at Leinster, you've found Felipe Contepomi has been the "Guiding Star" on the field of play to many of the Players and has taken the role as teacher to Jonny Sexton, who's emerging from the shadow of the "Good Doctor" and looks likely to be the back-up to O'Gara next season at International level on the back of the performance of Ian Keatley last night in Canada. Brian was also "AWOL" in France again and had the worst tournament of an Irish Captain that i can remember in a Tournament as far as leadership goes (O'Gara had to step up to the mark and start directing the play in the abcense of leadership from either Eddie, the Coaches or O'Driscoll and in many cases it was a case of shutting the door after the horse had already bolted)
On the Topic subject of the Lions, as this is what this is all about, then as long as the Irish players come back unscathed from the tour, then i'll be quite happy, as i would rather see a succesful retention of the 6 Nations crown and build up to the next World Cup than any partial successes that may be achieved by the Lions, as i'm certain that the Boks will succeed in their own back-yard - and for this reason, i'll not be doing this tour for the first time in 16 Years and looking forwards to the World Cup and an Improved performance by my Country in the "Land of the Silver Cloud" After abject failure in France
Within the same timescale at Leinster, you've found Felipe Contepomi has been the "Guiding Star" on the field of play to many of the Players and has taken the role as teacher to Jonny Sexton, who's emerging from the shadow of the "Good Doctor" and looks likely to be the back-up to O'Gara next season at International level on the back of the performance of Ian Keatley last night in Canada. Brian was also "AWOL" in France again and had the worst tournament of an Irish Captain that i can remember in a Tournament as far as leadership goes (O'Gara had to step up to the mark and start directing the play in the abcense of leadership from either Eddie, the Coaches or O'Driscoll and in many cases it was a case of shutting the door after the horse had already bolted)
On the Topic subject of the Lions, as this is what this is all about, then as long as the Irish players come back unscathed from the tour, then i'll be quite happy, as i would rather see a succesful retention of the 6 Nations crown and build up to the next World Cup than any partial successes that may be achieved by the Lions, as i'm certain that the Boks will succeed in their own back-yard - and for this reason, i'll not be doing this tour for the first time in 16 Years and looking forwards to the World Cup and an Improved performance by my Country in the "Land of the Silver Cloud" After abject failure in France
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| 24 May, 2009 09:50 | Report |
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FOR2008 (IP Logged) Registered User |
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Re: Notes From Down Under 1: Where Ian McGeechan Got It Wrong
Don't agree with any of that.
I wouldn't put too much importance on regaining the six nations crown or the World Cup. Just enjoy what you have now. You have England and France away,and if you get any further than the quarters of the Word Cup I'll be very surprised.
Ireland can't compete with big boys long term. Enjoy your success as I don't think we'll be seeing a repeat for a while to come.
I wouldn't put too much importance on regaining the six nations crown or the World Cup. Just enjoy what you have now. You have England and France away,and if you get any further than the quarters of the Word Cup I'll be very surprised.
Ireland can't compete with big boys long term. Enjoy your success as I don't think we'll be seeing a repeat for a while to come.
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| 24 May, 2009 09:52 | Report |
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Mongo (IP Logged) Registered User |
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Re: Notes From Down Under 1: Where Ian McGeechan Got It Wrong
Yesterday was a great day, I took my seat at loftus and was treated to a fantastic game of rugby, the best game that I have seen all year. I am a fan of super 14 rugby, but the boks will not have it all there own way.
One of the great aspects of the S14 is the ability to score tries from broken play. I do think that this is the boks best chance.
My worry for the lions is that the backs are not good enough. I think the forwards will shine, providing it is not an all england front row. The set pieces are key to the lions, we have all seen at leeds how good the best SA props are really....... there not world class, that has not changed the SA S14 scrum is normally weak.
The danger men for the boks are the back 3, real game changers, who ever they pick, we will have to make sure that we score enough points, to make sure that when they score, and they will..... we have enough points to cover it.
In my opinion, the lions need to score 30 points in every game to win
One of the great aspects of the S14 is the ability to score tries from broken play. I do think that this is the boks best chance.
My worry for the lions is that the backs are not good enough. I think the forwards will shine, providing it is not an all england front row. The set pieces are key to the lions, we have all seen at leeds how good the best SA props are really....... there not world class, that has not changed the SA S14 scrum is normally weak.
The danger men for the boks are the back 3, real game changers, who ever they pick, we will have to make sure that we score enough points, to make sure that when they score, and they will..... we have enough points to cover it.
In my opinion, the lions need to score 30 points in every game to win
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| 24 May, 2009 13:27 | Report |
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Re: Notes From Down Under 1: Where Ian McGeechan Got It Wrong
I Want More than You're Offering "Fan" - And Why Shouldn't I after a generation of improvement in the club game in the Country ?. The Lions Selections aren't going to nothing for the game over here, other than a recognition of players contributions to a good year for the Country and their Provinces - and that's al it is at the end of the day.
I Hope the Lions Do Well, but i'd rather see Ireland do better in those away games that you highlighted - and why shouldn't we win at those two places, as it's thenext goal that you have aim for now that the monkey is off the back now and the Slam is secure for a couple of months.
The performances in the World Cups have been poor, disappointing and ultimately frustrating for all the fans and players involved and as much as you can say that we should "Enjoy the Moment" it's nothing if we slip back to the form we had under the previous Regime and as much as i appreciate the view that we should enjoy our "Time in the Sun", it'll be worth nothing if we don't build on it
I Hope the Lions Do Well, but i'd rather see Ireland do better in those away games that you highlighted - and why shouldn't we win at those two places, as it's thenext goal that you have aim for now that the monkey is off the back now and the Slam is secure for a couple of months.
The performances in the World Cups have been poor, disappointing and ultimately frustrating for all the fans and players involved and as much as you can say that we should "Enjoy the Moment" it's nothing if we slip back to the form we had under the previous Regime and as much as i appreciate the view that we should enjoy our "Time in the Sun", it'll be worth nothing if we don't build on it
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| 25 May, 2009 16:58 | Report |
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| 25 May, 2009 17:50 | Report |
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oopnorth (IP Logged) Registered User |
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Re: Notes From Down Under 1: Where Ian McGeechan Got It Wrong
'The most anticipated tour of all time'
Clearly FOR you are very young. Before we had 24 hour satellite TV and instant updates on Peter and Jordan's marriage, and no close rugby season, the Lions and All Blacks and SA were teams with a true mystique about them. It wasn't the pro era and playing standards were radically different but the anticipation was more exciting. The Lions now are out of date and as you say (and last tour's evidence suggest it) not in with much of a chance. It'll be interesting, but not the best ever I think.
'BOD should be captain'
I agree but he'll probably get injured early on again, and that's maybe why he's missed out.
'Our back row will get stuffed'
Pretty much. Tom Croft or no, but I agree he should be there.
'The Scots will add a drinking dimension'
Hardly, up here at that level rugby is middle class now the Borders have gone down the drain. Tipsy on chardonnay perhaps.
I suppose you won't have much time at the minute for your next opus, winding up all those okkers about the excellence of Portuguese rugby
Clearly FOR you are very young. Before we had 24 hour satellite TV and instant updates on Peter and Jordan's marriage, and no close rugby season, the Lions and All Blacks and SA were teams with a true mystique about them. It wasn't the pro era and playing standards were radically different but the anticipation was more exciting. The Lions now are out of date and as you say (and last tour's evidence suggest it) not in with much of a chance. It'll be interesting, but not the best ever I think.
'BOD should be captain'
I agree but he'll probably get injured early on again, and that's maybe why he's missed out.
'Our back row will get stuffed'
Pretty much. Tom Croft or no, but I agree he should be there.
'The Scots will add a drinking dimension'
Hardly, up here at that level rugby is middle class now the Borders have gone down the drain. Tipsy on chardonnay perhaps.
I suppose you won't have much time at the minute for your next opus, winding up all those okkers about the excellence of Portuguese rugby
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| 25 May, 2009 18:02 | Report |
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Original Cult |
Date Joined: Sep, 2004 Location: In at the Back Posts: 4578 |
Re: Notes From Down Under 1: Where Ian McGeechan Got It Wrong
I agree with you, Ooop.
Rugby has always been about more than just what happens on the pitch, and other sports have been envious of this. In the lower leagues the camaraderie is still there but the professional era is trying to choke this from the game. I received a particularly unpleasant example of this delivered in an offensive manner from a senior club official at the end of this season.
If you're in for win at all costs then Sky-led Pro-rugby is the way forward.
Rugby has always been about more than just what happens on the pitch, and other sports have been envious of this. In the lower leagues the camaraderie is still there but the professional era is trying to choke this from the game. I received a particularly unpleasant example of this delivered in an offensive manner from a senior club official at the end of this season.
If you're in for win at all costs then Sky-led Pro-rugby is the way forward.
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| 25 May, 2009 18:26 | Report |
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oopnorth (IP Logged) Registered User |
Date Joined: Sep, 2003 Location: Posts: 2112 |
Re: Notes From Down Under 1: Where Ian McGeechan Got It Wrong
It's interesting isn't it and probably generational. We bang on about clubs and the old rugby values, whereas FOR gives an insight into the hard nosed, contract based era.
There's an interesting article to be written about what it is like to be on the fringes of the pro game (academy etc) and the dynamics of modern clubs and squads, and being in them or ejected out of them, and how that makes you feel about this game, the clubs and the supporters.
There's an interesting article to be written about what it is like to be on the fringes of the pro game (academy etc) and the dynamics of modern clubs and squads, and being in them or ejected out of them, and how that makes you feel about this game, the clubs and the supporters.
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| 25 May, 2009 18:46 | Report |
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Original Cult |
Date Joined: Sep, 2004 Location: In at the Back Posts: 4578 |
Re: Notes From Down Under 1: Where Ian McGeechan Got It Wrong
I think so.
My rugby experience has been far more 'holistic' than that of the days when I followed football. I really hope that the money men do not try to go down the same path as soccer, but as the recent exodus of pplayers to France shows I fear this has started.
My rugby experience has been far more 'holistic' than that of the days when I followed football. I really hope that the money men do not try to go down the same path as soccer, but as the recent exodus of pplayers to France shows I fear this has started.
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| 25 May, 2009 19:25 | Report |
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Re: Notes From Down Under 1: Where Ian McGeechan Got It Wrong
Quote:oopnorth
It's interesting isn't it and probably generational. We bang on about clubs and the old rugby values, whereas FOR gives an insight into the hard nosed, contract based era.
There's an interesting article to be written about what it is like to be on the fringes of the pro game (academy etc) and the dynamics of modern clubs and squads, and being in them or ejected out of them, and how that makes you feel about this game, the clubs and the supporters.
maybe FOR can enlighten us about the harshness of the pro game from signing your first Pro contract for a big club to being let go and moving on
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| 26 May, 2009 10:51 | Report |
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Date Joined: Jul, 2006 Location: Posts: 3748 |
Re: Notes From Down Under 1: Where Ian McGeechan Got It Wrong
ITs complete and utter b*****s.
POC has the X factor in spades. He is a Jonno character.
Croft adds nothing to the side in terms of a replacement for Quinny and I think Leinster has a lot more going for it than just BOD...saint though he undoubtedly is.
I say and say again the team will not be short in fitness and the forwards will get to the breakdowns and compete. If you dont front up to the boks you get stuffed. This team will front up ....it still might get stuffed but in all honesty who really cares as long as there are no injuries and the rugby is entertaining.
Next time, Harry, we won't play by their rules. We'll invent our own!
POC has the X factor in spades. He is a Jonno character.
Croft adds nothing to the side in terms of a replacement for Quinny and I think Leinster has a lot more going for it than just BOD...saint though he undoubtedly is.
I say and say again the team will not be short in fitness and the forwards will get to the breakdowns and compete. If you dont front up to the boks you get stuffed. This team will front up ....it still might get stuffed but in all honesty who really cares as long as there are no injuries and the rugby is entertaining.
Next time, Harry, we won't play by their rules. We'll invent our own!
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| 26 May, 2009 13:24 | Report |
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FOR2008 (IP Logged) Registered User |
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| 26 May, 2009 19:08 | Report |
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