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Saracens v Tigers Preview
By ChrisC
February 13 2012
The Pot of Gold                                                                                                                                   After serving in the RAF during the Second World War my uncle, not enamoured of Clement Attlee’s vision of a New Jerusalem, decided to emigrate and left the dark austerity of post war England for the sunshine of what was then Rhodesia and, with his new wife, settled in Bulawayo taking up a job with a South African based retailer.

He waxed lyrical about the country and its people and equally loved South Africa, which he often visited.  They sounded like golden lands, full of sunshine and opportunity and, when I stumbled into a career in retailing myself, my uncle offered me a job as his assistant. I was on the point of setting sail when my uncle was killed in a traffic accident while travelling back from South Africa and so, without a sponsor, the opportunity disappeared. 

Ever since that time I have been interested in the history of what has become the benighted Zimbabwe and also the optimistic Rainbow Nation of South Africa where so many still seek the promised pot of gold at the end of their particular rainbows. 

Tigers’ opponents this week have their own band of Voortrekkers, however whereas their Boer forebears trekked from the British controlled Cape Colony to escape Perfidious Albion and their administrators, peopled by what the Afrikaans called Soutpiels, to form the Natal, Orange Free State and Transvaal regions, these latter day Voortrekkers have chosen instead to seek their fortunes in England with fellow travellers from neighbouring Namibia and Zimbabwe. 

 Players born in southern Africa constitute just over a quarter of the Watford club’s published Premiership squad for this season (source Aviva Premiership Website) and with a CEO who forged a career in South Africa, a South African defacto Director of Rugby who’s based in the Republic and a South African billionaire owner in Johann Rupert, who funds the substantial losses that the St Albans based business incurs, Saracens remains something of an oddity in the world of English rugby union, for never before in the professional era has a club been so focussed on one nation for its playing staff, management and financing and is, to all intents and purposes, the manifestation of the earlier but abortive “London Tribe” project with which Mr Rupert was rumoured to be involved. 

In spite of having the mantle of Champions Saracens only attract small crowds to Vicarage Road with attendances averaging just over 6000 even though the team are again flying high in the Premiership. 

Saracens are pinning their fiscal hopes on the modest project to move their home matches to the refurbished 10,000 capacity Copthall Stadium where they seek to improve crowd numbers, although why moving to Barnet should achieve this must be open to conjecture but good luck to them in producing a sustainable business to match their success on the pitch, as surely even a benefactor with pockets as full as those of Mr Rupert must eventually blanche at persistent and substantial losses.  

Icy weather, which we have been experiencing even here on the usually mild south coast, has two advantages; the first is for EoN who manage to dip their hands ever further into my pocket as our central heating works overtime and the second that I, excused other duties, can watch wall to wall rugby. 

It was, in rugby terms, an extraordinary weekend. 

Extraordinary that a third rate England performance again relied on the bounce of the ball from a charge down enabling Charlie Hodgson to score his team’s only try. 

Extraordinary that the media are reduced to benignly nodding as Stuart Lancaster launches into another execrable flood of psychobabble and management speak.  

Extraordinary that in spite of another display which saw the England pack do their job but the backs having no ambition and as much penetration as a milk pudding they still find themselves having defeated the two contenders for this year’s wooden spoon, even though both Italy and Scotland looked the better sides for long periods. 

Extraordinary that down at Sandy Park Tigers once more squandered a worthwhile lead and again gave way to a second half renaissance by their opponents, a mental weakness incomprehensible in days of yore. 

Extraordinary that once again Greg Garner produced an awful display of refereeing that, as was the case last year, favoured Saracens when they visited High Wycombe and again beat Wasps. 

Extraordinary that Saracens have been able to recruit a squad of such depth and quality that with, reportedly, nineteen players absent through international call ups and injury they could field such a high quality match day ensemble and all achieved while remaining within the salary cap. 

Extraordinary that Gloucester looked peerless in putting Saints to the sword only to suffer a second half defensive seizure enabling a depleted Northampton to escape with a losing bonus point. 

Extraordinary that the organisers of the Six Nations lack the intelligence to arrange matters so that the showcase France versus Ireland match could take place.  In spite of the options open to facilitate the match the organisers chose the one to play it in long running sub zero February temperatures at 9pm! Just when you think that the highly paid individuals charged with administering our sport cannot demonstrate greater abject stupidity they go onto to astound us mere mortals with levels of idiocy that reach beyond credibility.  There may be sports suffering worse management but I’ve yet to find one. 

Finally it was extraordinary that I had to wait until Sunday afternoon to watch a match that set the pulse racing as Scotland, again looking the better side for long periods, fought toe to toe with an impressive Welsh side which won with a score line that again ill serves the efforts of Andy Robinson’s side. It was a great second half in which Roman Poite summarily disallowed a perfectly valid Scottish try without recourse to the TMO. 

Thank goodness we are spared the Six Nations for a week while Tigers outspan and trek down to Vicarage Road to meet their latter day Nemesis. 

What a shame that on the last five occasions that these teams have met only twice has it been without the drag of EPS strictures.  In those instances honours have been shared. 

Tigers continue to stutter and splutter while Saracens remain cohesive and forceful.  Their style of rugby may not be everybody’s cup of Bovril but my goodness they’re good at it. 

Unusually Saracens went behind to the plucky Wasps whereas usually they snatch a try or kick some penalties and then deploy their enviable defensive system to hold on to the lead.  However on Sunday they had to come from behind and while it’s true to say that they had copious assistance from Mr Garner in achieving their objective they stuck at the task like limpets and of course it doesn’t hurt to be able to bring Springboks Brits and deKock on where other leading sides are supported by cohorts of novices.  As I said; there’s much that’s extraordinary about Saracens – one might even be tempted to say “special”!! 

Against Exeter Tigers deployed the venerable Julian White alongside the almost equally venerable George Chuter and with Cole unlikely to be released by England and Richard Cockerill refusing to start the dynamic Hawkins, I expect the same front row next Sunday, especially as Stankovitch pulled out of the Sandy Park squad leaving Ayerza as the only experienced loosehead and White the only experienced tighthead.  Tigers would have hoped that Martin Castrogiovanni would have been available as Italy tend to return players during fallow weekends in the Six Nations but he too has now succumbed to injury. 

Happily Jamie George got a start against Wasps relegating his more illustrious Springbok colleagues variously to the bench and to playing out of position at prop in the process. I continue to be mightily impressed by young Jamie George who’s a splendid scrummager, an accurate thrower and is remarkably mobile around the park.  However as the match is at home I expect to see Brits get the #2 shirt, for while there may be few Saracens’ supporters willing to pay to see their team play those that do turn up will want to see as much of the iconic Brits as possible.  With Carstens back home and Stevens with England I’d expect Welshman Rhys Gill to be at loosehead with the fiercesome Nieto on the other side and that still leaves the vastly experienced Smit as an option from the bench 

This should be a decent contest but one that I can see Saracens winning. 

Slater and Skivington have formed a bit of a partnership at lock but with Louis Deacon out for the season Tigers lack a real enforcer and Deacon is also sorely missed at the breakdown, which remains an area of concern and one that hasn’t been addressed by Richard Cockerill, or if it has it’s been with a remarkable lack of success.  It was noticeable from the highlights of the contest with Exeter that Tigers were once again slow to the breakdown leaving players isolated and with Sean Davey whistling for offences real and imagined it was another seemingly shambolic performance around the tackle area. 

Saracens meanwhile are one of the most effective sides in this department and are fantastically adept at preying on any weakness or predilections of the referee with their pre match analysis outstanding. 

Even with Borthwick and Botha missing against Wasps the collective again worked well.  I was especially impressed by young George Kruis, who, in spite of a name redolent of the Dutch Reformed Church so beloved of the Afrikaans, is English born.  He was steady in the lineout and caught the eye in the loose and at the breakdown.  I had not previously seen Australian born USA Eagle Hayden Smith who has 18 caps.  I believe he’s just back from the Land of the Free where he’s been having American Football try outs.  He too filled his spot well and even if Borthwick and Botha are still missing next week, without Parling and Croft, Tigers will struggle to find any dominance here. 

It’s odd that with such a strong back row that Tigers still seem hesitant and disorganised at the tackle area where Julian Salvi ploughs a lonely furrow at times.  Mafi and Waldrom are splendid in loose play but the coaches and players must use more wit opposing Saracens against whom there is absolutely no point in contesting on their ball, better to cover their second pod which will be ready to exploit the gaps generated by opposition players being sucked in to the breakdown.  Saracens don’t turn over much of their own ball anyway so better to defend the outcome.  Where Tigers must be vigilant is in protecting their own ball and to this end they must get to the breakdown quicker and in numbers, then clear the ball out with despatch as Saracens are as vulnerable as any other team to quick and accurate ball. 

Even without such luminaries as Ernst Joubert and Burger Saracens are breathtakingly efficient at the tackle area, without the mores of Mr Garner against Wasps and Mr Barnes in the last match against Quins assisting them. 

If Justin Melck and Jackson Wray continue (and Wray incidentally looks a very good player indeed and something of a Jordan Crane lookalike I thought) in concert with the mysteriously ignored Andy Saull, who as a genuine open side with tremendous pace should surely have been around the EPS squad long before now, then I can’t see much in the way of turnover ball for the visitors. 

On what I’ve seen this season it will be remarkable if Tigers can get an edge at the set piece or the tackle area and therefore are potentially going to be suffocated by the home side. 

However to be positive and assuming that the referee keeps Saracens honest at the breakdown (and frankly they are good enough not to need to infringe) it will fall to the Tigers half backs to get their backs onto dynamic rather than static ball as without Barritt and Farrell (who with Hodgson as the incumbents of the England shirts will surely not be released by Saracens’ coach Andy Farrell in his England guise) there looked opportunities when Wasps got some quick ball, even though they were determined to butcher their chances. 

Tigers lost Sam Harrison to injury against Exeter and it is to be hoped against hope that he’s fit for next Sunday for with Micky Young unjustly and incomprehensibly suspended by ERC and the still out of sorts Ben Youngs likely to unwisely be kept in camp with England, James Grindal is the last experienced scrum half still standing at Tigers and for all his work ethic he’s not going to produce enough quick ball. 

Saracens have had their own injury problems at scrum half with Wigglesworth out for the season as well as deKock and, find of the season for the Sarries, Ben Spencer, also injured, so they have brought in cover – in the shape of the vastly experienced international; Peter Stringer .  Where other teams have to make do with injury cover from “Old Fartonians” Saracens bring in Peter Stringer – extraordinary! 

Against Wasps the Irishman was immune from the attentions of the home side’s breakaways due to protection from Mr Garner and the now familiar carapace that Saracens form at the back of the breakdown, which sees their scrum half so removed from the unwanted attention of the opposition that he’ll soon need binoculars to see them, so distant have they become.  This nifty ploy not only protects the Sarries’ scrum half but makes counter-rucking all but impossible and enables their forwards to be swiftly mobilised once the ball is away – very, very clever.  I wonder why nobody else does it? 

Toby Flood still looks very much below par; missing kicks and going into super slo-mo with a clearance kick charged down by the Exeter open side generating a try for Richard Baxter.  It’s inconceivable that Flood should be retained by England next weekend as with Hodgson and Owen Farrell, Lancaster and Andy Farrell have a working system and with Barritt completing the centres and being coached by a Saracen employee the style is much as that of Saracens.  It’s working so far, at least against the Six Nations’ also-rans.  I sense though that more ambition in attack will be required against Wales, Ireland and France so Lancaster must be hoping that Tuilagi M and Flood come good. 

I can’t say that I thought Nils Mordt looked at all comfortable in his unaccustomed fly half position against Wasps and if he continues there the Tigers’ breakaways will be targeting him I’m sure, maybe Alex Goode will step in. The Saracens’ make shift mid field looked less assured and with stalwart Adam Powell at inside centre and USA international winger Chris Wyles in unfamiliar territory at outside centre there could be some opportunities there for Tony Allen and Manu Tuilagi, the latter surely being available to get some match time ahead of being subsumed into the England squad. Obviously though to those who are not too blind to see the Tigers’ centres, and especially Allen, will not be able to acquit themselves if their half-back colleagues are not producing front foot ball for them and they receive the ball with an opponent a nanosecond behind it. 

With the spectacular Michael Tagicakibau now back from injury I wonder if he’ll get a start, if he does it will be something of a “blast from the past” for Saracens’ fans to reprise his mazy running and electric pace and it would enable the excellent Wyles to be back on the wing to replace utility back Duncan Taylor who got his starting debut at the sparsely populated Adams Park where less than 5500 souls turned up (there were over 9000 at Sandy Park). 

If Tigers’ backs get some quick go forward ball then there could be a way through the redoubt of the hosts’ defence as the Tuilagis target James Short who’s big on pace but at just 85kgs something of a lightweight in these days of behemoth wingers. 

Out wide Alex Tuilagi bulldozed through Exeter’s Matt Jess and Dollman for another try on Saturday and if he’s fit I expect to see him once again in the #11 shirt and partnered by his fellow departee; Horacio Agulla with Geordan Murphy, whos lovely pass was instrumental in Tuilagi’s try, continuing at full back. If Tuilagi isn’t fit the Hamilton will probably get the nod although personally I’d like to see Niall Morris given a start or Matt Smith move to the wing. 

Alex Goode is a player, like his opposite number Geordan Murphy, who is rarely flustered and has slotted smoothly into Owen Farrell’s role as lead kicker. Both are capable of making subtle and decisive line breaks and pretty bomb proof under the high ball but, in the absence of Hougaard, Hodgson and Farrell, Goode may be dragooned into #10. 

While Saracens system clearly works and it’s winning that ultimately counts I am always left feeling that while they’re good if only they had a more ambitious playbook for their talented back division they could be spectacular. 

Vicarage Road has never been fertile ground for Tigers and with the current vintage so dysfunctional and Saracens showing such a strong collective amongst their all star cast I can’t see much joy for Tigers next Sunday so I expect another loss on the road, although not with a 25 point margin and leaving some Sarries’ supporters a little less to unattractively crow about.

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Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: TheLeicesterTigers.co.uk (IP Logged)
Date: 13/02/2012 22:30

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:02:21:12:18:48 by Tiggs.

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: Purebob (IP Logged)
Date: 13/02/2012 23:36

A splendid preview, sadly accurate. I dont even expect a lbp.

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: Stopsy (IP Logged)
Date: 14/02/2012 10:30

Thanks Chris if we pull one out of the bag on Saturday it will raise even more questions regarding last week.

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: 1876-Fez (IP Logged)
Date: 14/02/2012 10:58

Saturday...Saturday.....Bl@@dy hell...I'll be 24rs late then!!(Sm100)

SUPPORT Help for Heroes:
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Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: davidthesarrie (IP Logged)
Date: 14/02/2012 11:37

Interesting and informative preview with a history lesson thrown in!
Sorry that wicked lady fate intervened in your life; you could well have been a SArriefan but for her!
Thank you and well done!
Let's hope for a great game, see you Sunday.

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: Stopsy (IP Logged)
Date: 14/02/2012 12:56

Thanks for that 1876 if I may be so bold as to use your first name.

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: Hoggers (IP Logged)
Date: 14/02/2012 14:15

Very knowledgable preview and as someone said an interesting lesson in history. My personal view on the result as a Sarries fan is that it will be close and we will require all of our remaining resources to get the win..... and as a repost to your views on Saracens playing style I shall echo the views of our injured Namibian Mr Burgher....... 'win ugly, win close, win lucky etc etc All I hear is win#'. (just hope the ref continues to favour us which of course has never been the case with Tigs (Sm161) )

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: Stooperman (IP Logged)
Date: 14/02/2012 14:54

I think all teams should adopt the tactic of getting all their players out of the ruck when Saracens start froming the ridiculous turtle thing, then surely it should be a penalty to he defending side, as no ruck is formed, and the Saracens players are all in front of the ball carrier. As long as we all tell the refs thats what we are going to do, and explain that we expect the law to be applied properly, we can eradicate this tactic which defaces our beautiful game.

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: ChrisC (IP Logged)
Date: 14/02/2012 16:02

Altrnatively why don't all teams do the same thing and then we could have a twentyeight man ruck (Sm100)

Thing is it works and I very much doubt the referees would go along with Stooperman's idea. So if you can't beat 'em - join 'em



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:02:14:16:02:43 by ChrisC.

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: GaryB (IP Logged)
Date: 14/02/2012 20:31

Stopperman, to misuse a common phrase, once a ruck ways a ruck!

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: Stopsy (IP Logged)
Date: 14/02/2012 20:56

Just think how more effective Ben would be if he took slow ball 2m further back from the defence.

As you say Chris, astute tactics.

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: ka ora ka mate (IP Logged)
Date: 14/02/2012 21:11

SArries are as entertaining as watching paint d... (Sm119) .. but they have before mysteriously and suddenly shown they can spin the ball about and cross the whitewash with panache and flair, and somehow I can see that renaissance lighting up the dowdy stands in What for on Sunday, just because they can .. and that is the trouble, we are such a shambles that all the above we should and we musts are as likely as something very unlikely

Don't be too sure about the 25 point point

I actually had two uncles in the RAF during the same war, and one of them was posted to South Africa initially, travelling north via Victoria Falls - I was there last September [at least Kap Staad and the Province] and it is a fabulous place where I was able to copy some of his old monochrome photos in colour, but politically I don't think you'd have been happy, Hampshire it aint, and you'd have been back to Blighty long since, fate or no fate.

'Profit Motive' .. the Vaseline of genocides.

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: Welwyn RFC Saracen (IP Logged)
Date: 15/02/2012 17:16

I'll just correct you on a couple of points:

Nils Mordt is a fly half. He plays all the A league games in the position.

Chris Wyles has played a lot of rugby for Sarries and indeed the USA at outside centre so again he's hardly out of place.

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: ChrisC (IP Logged)
Date: 16/02/2012 09:28

I don't watch all of Saracens first team matches or any of those of the A Team so I have to rely on a bit of research when I don't know enough about the players aside from what I have seen.

The Saracens Official Website always seems a good place to start:

Nils Mordt According to Sarries

Over the past two seasons I can only see him having played at 15 or 12 for the first XV

Chris Wyles According to Sarries

He has, as you say, played at 13 but given the official website's description of his position and that he has played in the back three more often than anywhere else over the past two seasons maybe that's the reason why centre is not yet listed amongst his positional attributes other than to mention en passant that he finished last season at outside centre.

So I, a mere Tigers supporter, perhaps could be forgiven for assuming him to be more recognised as a back three player but maybe I should have said less familiar rather than unfamiliar.

But thanks for your input.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012:02:16:09:46:12 by ChrisC.

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: Rich W (IP Logged)
Date: 16/02/2012 12:35

Quote:
which sees their scrum half so removed from the unwanted attention of the opposition that he’ll soon need binoculars to see them, so distant have they become. This nifty ploy not only protects the Sarries’ scrum half but makes counter-rucking all but impossible and enables their forwards to be swiftly mobilised once the ball is away – very, very clever. I wonder why nobody else does it?

Not withstanding the comments above Chris - they do! I remarked that both Leicester and Exeter were doing so last week - though rather less extravagantly and with rather less efficacy it must be said - and concluded that it was a new technique or certainly one newly adopted and adapted.

Oh and thanks again - as always Chris - another good 'un!

..........................................................................

Lord, I was born a ramblin' man
Tryin' to make a livin' and doin' the best I can
And when it's time for leavin', I hope you'll understand
That I was born a ramblin' man



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:02:16:12:36:35 by Rich W.

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: ChrisC (IP Logged)
Date: 16/02/2012 13:59

Ah well I wasn't at Sandy Park to bear witness of course and they didn't show rucks on the highlights.

The other matches I did watch didn't feature the elongated carapace that Sarries use, so as you say others are not yet using such an extreme/extravagant version or are as used to its application, even in a more naive format but doubtless both will come to pass.

What a wonderfully exciting prospect (Sm161)

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: Welwyn RFC Saracen (IP Logged)
Date: 16/02/2012 17:24

Not having a pop just helping you out for future use.

The website will only list the first team games so Nils' Storm appearances at 10 won't exist but he's a reasonable fly-half.
Wyles is a bit of a utility back, but you don't hear that phrase so much these days, most people are "x" position.

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: ChrisC (IP Logged)
Date: 17/02/2012 09:48

Always good to learn.

I thought I'd just have a look at Chris Wyles though since he joined you from Saints for the 2008/9 season.

In that first season he made six Premiership starts, three were at Full Back and three on the wing.

The next season(2009/10) he was pretty much ever present in the Premiership making 20 Premiership starts with 19 of them on the wing and one at Full Back

Last season (2010/11) he also had 20 starts in the Premiership and was on the wing or at full back for most of them but then toward the end of the season he got a run at 13.

This season (2011/12) from his six starts he's had three at 13 and three on the wing.

It seems then that from being a dedicated winger for his first two and and a half seasons and seeming to make a success of it toward the end of last season he started to get moved around.

Why was that I wonder?

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: Rich W (IP Logged)
Date: 17/02/2012 10:20

No Chris - the correct terminology is not 'get moved around'. It's 'get messed about [by Cockerill]'.

Surely you understand this!

..........................................................................

Lord, I was born a ramblin' man
Tryin' to make a livin' and doin' the best I can
And when it's time for leavin', I hope you'll understand
That I was born a ramblin' man

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: Gryff (IP Logged)
Date: 17/02/2012 10:52

Quote:
ChrisC
Why was that I wonder?

Chris last season 13 was our jonah position with Adam Powell, Kameli Ratavou and Michael Tagicakibau picking up long term injuries throughout the season as did our young centre Sam Stanley (Smoking Joe's nephew) who looks the article came off bench against Bath at Rec and had great game and was then injured and out for season and has unfortunately broken down again coming back this year.

So Barritt was the only fit centre and when Goode and then Hougaard getting injured we had to recall Farrell from Bedford. Mordt played a few times at full back until Goode came back and then it was whoever could fill in at outside centre we played Srettle there a few times but Wyles was the best. Still think full back is his best position.

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: ChrisC (IP Logged)
Date: 17/02/2012 11:04

Thanks Gryff. So force majeure brought about his current "Utility Back" role rather than any change in his skill set which presumably Sarries still see as being in the more familiar setting of the back three when circumstances permit.

I understand.

Thanks.

And no Rich only Cockers messes players around, all the other coaches make changes. May I please refer you to Geezer's Law for a full explanation of the difference? Honestly do try to keep up old pal!!!

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: Rich W (IP Logged)
Date: 17/02/2012 11:16

Ah - I see...

..........................................................................

Lord, I was born a ramblin' man
Tryin' to make a livin' and doin' the best I can
And when it's time for leavin', I hope you'll understand
That I was born a ramblin' man

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: Gryff (IP Logged)
Date: 17/02/2012 11:20

Yes Chris back 3 other than necessity hence the signing of Joel Tomkins and the Farell/ Barritt experiment which again was a force majeure when Powell went off injured in one of the early matches this season and is now bizarrely the England midfield

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: davidthesarrie (IP Logged)
Date: 17/02/2012 21:19

Quote:

Two or three observations mentioning the digs at Sarries (they are there) but overall a reasonable assessment of the possibilities for the coming match.

Please, Yorkie, don't try and stir for the sake of it.

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: Rich W (IP Logged)
Date: 17/02/2012 21:25

Have you met Yorkie?

..........................................................................

Lord, I was born a ramblin' man
Tryin' to make a livin' and doin' the best I can
And when it's time for leavin', I hope you'll understand
That I was born a ramblin' man

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: Tiggs (IP Logged)
Date: 17/02/2012 21:25

Oh David, don't spoil our fun, you can do that after ko tomorrow !!

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.bath1/Bath/Photos/tighthead.gif http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.bath1/Bath/Photos/TigersFire2.gif

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: Rich W (IP Logged)
Date: 17/02/2012 21:30

Tomorrow? And Yorkie has a point. How often do other team's supporters complain about one of Chris' efforts? What a surprise it comes from Sarries!

..........................................................................

Lord, I was born a ramblin' man
Tryin' to make a livin' and doin' the best I can
And when it's time for leavin', I hope you'll understand
That I was born a ramblin' man

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: Tiggs (IP Logged)
Date: 17/02/2012 21:55

Tomorrow for me, already had a days drinking in today !!!

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.bath1/Bath/Photos/tighthead.gif http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.bath1/Bath/Photos/TigersFire2.gif

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: ra (IP Logged)
Date: 17/02/2012 22:56

What made me laugh was they complained of bias!
From a preview published on the Tigers' board!
Blimey, who'd have thought that Chris may view things from a slightly Tigerscentric position?

(Sm6)

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: Rich W (IP Logged)
Date: 17/02/2012 23:24

As opposed to their impartial view?

..........................................................................

Lord, I was born a ramblin' man
Tryin' to make a livin' and doin' the best I can
And when it's time for leavin', I hope you'll understand
That I was born a ramblin' man

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: bazster (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2012 06:44

Wonderful! If we come here and express an opinion you all start throwing your toys out of your pram, you tell us that it's your board, and that we should bu99er off back to our own board.

But what happens if we express an opinion on our board? You come and find it there and you still throw your toys out of your pram!

What a bunch of hypocrites.

And it's a pity that ChrisC didn't take the zeal for accuracy (pedantry even) that he shows over players' positions and apply it to the rest of his preview.

BTW RichW, can I take it that you (as one who doesn't go to the Sarries board) haven't actually seen what was said there?

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: ChrisC (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2012 09:30

Hmmm!

I'm not sure what (apart from a bit of pedantry from Welwyn about my view of Chris Wyles' "usual" position, although from Gryff's subsequent posts it seems I was not actually far from the mark) what's inaccurate?

My historical references are totally accurate as far as I can see.

As for the comments on Saracens:
Quote:
Players born in southern Africa constitute just over a quarter of the Watford club’s published Premiership squad for this season (source Aviva Premiership Website)

Barritt – born in Durban – SA
Botha – born in Vryheid – SA
Brits – born in Empangeni – SA
Burger – born in Windhoek – SWA
Carstens – born in Goodwood – SA (although he’s now gone home he was in the list at the start of the season)
deKock – Born in Cape Town – SA
duPlessis – born in Hermanus – SA
Hougaard – born in Citrusdal – SA
Joubert – born in Ceres – SA
Melck – born in Cape Town – SA
Mordt – born in Harare – Zimbabwe
Saunders – born in Amanzittoi – SA
Smit – born in Pietersberg – SA
Stevens – born in Durban – SA

14 from a total squad listing of 50 or 28%. If Carstens is discounted it’s still 26%.

Quote:
CEO who forged a career in South Africa

Is this not the case? Wasn't Griffiths previously CEO of South African Rugby?

Quote:
South African defacto Director of Rugby

Venter is now engaged as "technical director" I believe and is often to be seen at McCall's shoulder. My opinionis that he is still playing a major part in the playing side of Saracens. He's not the DoR but in my opinion a defacto one (just to help):
defacto
Adverb:
In fact, whether by right or not.
Synonyms:
adverb. actually - really - in fact - virtually
adjective. virtual - factual - actual

Quote:
a South African billionaire owner in Johann Rupert,

His funding comes through his company structure.

As I say I don't see what's inaccurate. I do see the usual denial and bluster that we've come to expect from a section of the Sarries supporters.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012:02:19:09:30:46 by ChrisC.

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: Rich W (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2012 09:43

Actually Bazter - no I have no idea what was said - I was reacting to Yorkie's comment entirely. A comment that was if I am any judge, entirely tongue in cheek.

But I do struggle to see what it was in Chris' preview that could offend and as I say it is rare for supporters of any other club to take such a view.

Now wind your neck in!

..........................................................................

Lord, I was born a ramblin' man
Tryin' to make a livin' and doin' the best I can
And when it's time for leavin', I hope you'll understand
That I was born a ramblin' man

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: Yorkie (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2012 10:17

Yes, it was very much a tongue in cheek comment, made on my "home" board where most people (I hope) would recognise it as such.

It was also an accurate comment in that it's the first time I've ever seen such comments about one of Chris' reviews, either on here or the oppositions board. You are correct though, these comments were made on the Sarries' board. But please note the difference. I didn't wade in with abuse etc on your board!

No stirring intended. Now if you really want me to start stirring and acting like an attack dog in the same manner as some (note I said some) Sarries' fans do then I may consider it if I had more time!

http://www.jakehowlett.com/tuckshop/wrappers/chocolate/plain/yorkie-nutter.jpg




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:02:18:12:07:09 by Yorkie.

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: Purebob (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2012 11:54

Very briefly most Saracens fans had a lucid view of the facts surrounding their club. This was when Capetowngate was proposed.

I found it interesting to follow and I actually found myself developing a level of sympathy for the fans. With the delusions gone, they were just fans who were facing a potential price of the nature of their sponsorship.

I don't know when exactly but since then the fog has descended once more. They're not a South African flavoured side despite their funding, many players and publicly stated business plan of their South African leadership... yeah okay, whatever.

Their team will be formidable opponents on Sunday, playing a well-worn gameplan that even seconds should find no trouble adopting. Tigers out of form and shorn of many influential players will probably lose.


If by some miracle we win...then Saffers fans will display a new-found awareness for the effects of international callups on otherwise good squads... * sigh *



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:02:18:12:04:09 by Purebob.

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: derbyshire fan (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2012 12:34

Looking forward to seeing some of you guys at Vicarage Road tomorrow - we'll be in the car coming down the M1 with the Sarries flag; likely we'll pass/be passed by some of you on the way south

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: ra (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2012 18:31

Oh Bazster, we're not throwing toys out of the pram we're mocking you. There's a significant difference.

(Sm14)

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: flocking sheep (IP Logged)
Date: 19/02/2012 11:09

Oh Bazster, we're not throwing toys out of the pram we're mocking you. There's a significant difference. ... actually, pity is more appropriate, imho

*********************************************************

Chew this!
Beneath the rule of mens' oppressive state
The pen is likelier than the sward. Behold
The arch-enchanter's wand! - itself a nothing!
But taking saucery from the masters-hand,
To paralyse the Caesars, strike the fence,
Stride the loud earth breathless! Take away the fog.
Sheep, aspire to be unique.

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: Tiggs (IP Logged)
Date: 19/02/2012 22:41

As usual, Chris hasn't a clue what he's talking about.
Little chance up front, and little chance of a result ?

Thanks as ever Chris. (Sm154) (Sm157)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.bath1/Bath/Photos/tighthead.gif http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.bath1/Bath/Photos/TigersFire2.gif

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: ChrisC (IP Logged)
Date: 20/02/2012 08:51

That's me - clueless!!!!

Re: Saracens v Tigers Preview
Posted by: Tiggs (IP Logged)
Date: 20/02/2012 12:48

We don't mind you calling it wrong if we win !!!

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.bath1/Bath/Photos/tighthead.gif http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.bath1/Bath/Photos/TigersFire2.gif

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