Tribute and Exclusive Interview with Trevor Woodman

Life is supposedly full of ups and downs, but in Trevor Woodman’s case, he’s had more of a rollercoaster ride in the past 5 years than most people. The Cornishman born in Liskeard has experienced a whole range of emotions throughout his rugby career, and now given the depressing nature of his forced retirement from rugby; he seems to have had time to reflect on what his life as a rugby player has been like.

Dougie, as he’s affectionately known in the rugby world, made his England debut as a replacement against the USA just before the 1999 World Cup which unluckily he had just missed out on. “I missed the 99 World Cup, literally getting axed at the last minute. The squad was 32 players in size, but had to be put down to 30 and I was one of those two who got cut. I was disappointed about that so I was determined to get into the next one in 2003”. Although he eventually got his wish, the road to what would prove the highlight of his career was a bumpy one to say the least. 2000 and 2001 ended up giving Woodman only four caps from the bench to his name until what must have felt like an eternity later, the loosehead prop made his first start against New Zealand at Twickenham in 2002. After making a big impact against the All Blacks and being described as ‘extremely tough and uncompromising’ by the RFU, Woodman was forced to pull out of the remaining two Autumn Internationals, as well as the first 3 Six Nations games four months later after getting injured during training in the week.

By his own admission though, 2003 would prove to be something a little bit more special: A Six Nations Grand Slam, topping the league with Gloucester as well as the Powergen Cup and ultimately, a World Cup Winner’s medal, the biggest prize in World Rugby. Not to mention the added thrill of touring with England Down Under in June 2003, displacing Jason Leonard for the top spot in the World Cup Final, an MBE and the Freedom of Gloucester. Not bad for someone only 28 at the time.

After spending 9 years at Gloucester, the Cornishman felt like he needed a change and, in time for the 2004/05 season, packed his West Country bags and headed up north to Sale Sharks. It’s no big secret Woodman was forced to retire after a year of battling a debilitating back injury sustained at a training session thereby turning the ‘up’ of the previous season on it’s head. Dougie has spent the past year fighting this condition and it’s only recently he’s had to face the reality of his situation and call it a day on his playing career. Yet another one of England’s World Cup winning squad was out of the picture, although instead of bowing out of his free will, Woodman ended up being the only player who had no say in the matter.

I met up with Trevor in Cheltenham, with thousands of questions in my head, all wanting answers. Now after the dust has settled on his retirement from the game, I thought it fitting to pay tribute to England’s recent number 1, number 1.

Patrick: When first news of your injury broke out, everyone seemed to be saying it would be a 2 or 3 week job, and you’d be back on your feet in no time. What happened?

Trevor Woodman: To begin with I had some scans taken and everyone was assuring me it would be a 3 to 4 week injury and that I’d be fine. But it never recovered and without really knowing it I was using up a lot of strength which was just making it worse. The last game I played in October last year… I felt like I was putting myself in danger because I couldn’t do the things I could previously do and it was affecting the way I was playing and the way I trained, so in the end I just stopped. I was told to take two months off, so we took two months and then it didn’t improve and it wasn’t until March this year when I had some more tests done until they actually found the real cause of it and from then on it was pretty bleak to be honest.

It seemed like you were a sure starter for the Canada game, and a lot of fans were pencilling you in…

Well I just remember the week before the Canada game, going down and speaking to Andy Robinson and just telling him that my back’s not right, and that there’s obviously something wrong with it. I said I wouldn’t be able to do the training let alone play the game, so I’ve got to go try and go away and sort that out.

Was it a Sale training session where it all kicked off?

Yeah it was just a training session with Sale, something I did in the gym and then suddenly it was from 2-4 weeks and ‘you’ll be fine’ to not playing again. I was in a lot of discomfort at the time but you always think that you’ve been in discomfort with other injuries, and that it’s going to get better but it’s only literally in the last two months where I’ve seen any real improvement. It’s a shame it didn’t improve straight away so I could have continued playing, but then, that’s professional sport; you have the great times, and then you suddenly have the low ones.

While all this was going on, were you trying to stay positive about the outlook?

I was trying to be as positive as possible. I think the thing back then was trying to seek all the medical opinions I possibly could, and I tried to get the best ones. As time went on though it didn’t improve so the outlook was getting more and more negative.

Obviously you won the World Cup - congratulations by the way…

Thank you [grins]

…does the fact that you’ve got a World Cup medal make up for what’s happened in some way?

I dunno whether it makes up for it or not, I think for every career you put things in different sort of brackets… and leading up to that World Cup my main aim was to get in that squad and be involved in that World Cup. Then coming away with the trophy; if I look back yes it was a great moment in my career but straight after, it was like ‘When have I sat down and enjoyed this?’, because 6 days after the Final I was back playing club rugby, and I’d hardly had a weekend off for the rest of the season till pretty much the end of June when we got back from New Zealand. But I suppose in ten years time I’ll look back and go well, better off out the game at the age of 29-30 rather than hanging in there at 34-35... One thing I’ve done is gone out at the top I suppose! [laughs] At the end of the day though I did want to be there in 2007 to defend the cup, and I wanted to go on and have 50-60 caps for England, I love playing for England. Even now, when you just watch some of these games and you see the players lining up for the national anthem, that’s where you get the real buzz and adrenaline, it’s those sorts of moments. Things like that you do miss.

Hence my next question, what’ll you miss most?

What I miss is the day to day banter with the players, but then you can cope with that by doing other things. I can watch club rugby and not actually feel like I’m missing anything too much to be honest. I think it’s just everything that goes with playing for your country, it’s just the whole buzz of driving to the game, and on the pitch you’ve got all these fans cheering you on and standing there singing the anthems with 70-80 thousand people. The places I love to go most are when we play away in Paris and you’ve got 80 thousand Frenchmen just whistling at you when you come out. Things like that, we’re so lucky to have experienced those things, and that’s the things I miss the most, that adrenaline side of the game, the real buzz of playing for your country.

What’ll you miss least?

The least? [thinks] Probably all the analysis and being sat there in meetings. I think people could quite easily over-analyse. We all enjoy being out on the pitch and training. I know the analysis has got to be done, it’s part of the professional game now, but I think that’s one thing I definitely don’t miss.

Did you ever fall asleep?

[laughs] I swear there were times when I was very close! You’ve always gotta sit next to someone that’s keeping an eye on you to give you a little nudge! Some meetings would drag on and the stuff would be covered week in week out. Those kind of things never really got me going too much.

Apart from the obvious, what’s been the highlight of your career?

I think I had some very special times down at Gloucester, so it would probably be the Powergen Cup win of 2003. I just think generally 2003 was a very good year; a Grand Slam, Powergen and World Cup. But then there are certain games throughout your career you obviously remember, it’s like the one 6 weeks after the World Cup Final, coming on at Kingsholm, myself and Phil Vickery were replacements and came on after 40 minutes, in the second half. The whole of the crowd went wild! I even managed to score a 40 metre try in that game, and suddenly the whole shed started singing Swing Low!

Fantastic try - Which opposition players did you respect the most?

Julian White’s never proved to be an easy opponent and it was always a difficult, hard 80 minutes when I played against him. I think we can all accept that Julian is very good at scrummaging. But the real test is when you come up against French teams where they’re renowned for their front row play. Marconnet’s a good solid player, Carl Hayman from New Zealand has really developed into a world class player. Last year down there it wasn’t easy against New Zealand but then it’s never easy against the All Blacks but he’s a bloody man mountain isn’t he, 6”4, just huge and he’s definitely holding that scrum together and that’s probably why New Zealand are progressing the way they are.

What was the World Cup Final like?

It was interesting because you never really remember too much of the game itself. I couldn’t tell you where I was on the pitch when Jason scored his try or anything like that. I know where I was when Jonny scored his drop goal though! But I think the things you remember are the things leading up to the game when we were based in that hotel in Manly, when you’ve got great big glass fronted balconies with all the Australians playing Waltzing Matilda and waving their flags. The snide comments you get from the Aussies all week…

Then there’s walking down the tunnel, seeing the World Cup just plonked there, and you just know at the end of that game one team’s going to be holding it. I just remember things like our scrums were being penalised constantly for whatever reason. That last play where they scored to equalise because the ref penalised me at the scrum. It was a minute away from winning it and I just thought to myself ‘Ahh, I’ve just given away a penalty for them to level it!’. After 80 minutes, I was thinking ‘Christ they’re going to take me off, they’re going to take me off because I’ve just given a penalty away’. But luckily I stayed on for the full 100 minutes and watching that kick go over was amazing. Seemed like it was in slow motion! Then I caught the restart, being completely out of position! I just saw them coming back and thought well they’re going to take a quick one so I just thought I’ll just stand here to put them off and they obviously saw me there and thought ‘let’s kick to the fat kid!’ [laughs] Then it was just mayhem really.

I imagine the post-World Cup Final celebrations were good?!

By the time the game finished and we’d done the press thing, we met up with friends and so forth, it just seemed sensible to keep going all night and all day! It was great fun!

Nicknames?

Dougie. Shuffle, because of the way I run and Slug(ger), for whatever reason!

Who took the longest to get ready in the dressing room?

At an England game everyone seemed to get out pretty quickly but then again, I was always one of the first out so I couldn’t really tell you!

Why do you think England have performed poorly since the World Cup Final?

The squad leading up to the World Cup had been together for a long time, then suddenly we went into the Six Nations with a few less of those leading and experienced players, so therefore they had to be replaced. Then we travelled Down Under, literally 8 months after the World Cup, and were only fielding 5 or 6 of that World Cup team, whereas Australia had 13 of theirs still playing. They thrashed us 50 odd points. That is a big turn-around. We probably thought right, we’re number one in the world, let’s try and get better but we never had the team to go on. So we then started the next Autumn Tests and Six Nations with even less of a cohesive team, so it was a case of going back to basics again rather than trying to move on.

Also with the number of players in and out, a lot of injuries, and I think whatever team it is, whether it’s a club team or an international side, the players have got to gel together and they can only do that by playing consistently together in games.

But then you’ve also got to look at it and think maybe if we’d have kicked 4 or 5 more kicks throughout the Six Nations we’d be Grand Slam champions, that’s how close it was. All it takes is for you to win one of those close games then suddenly you have the belief, if it is close, after 70-75 minutes, that you know what to do to go up and win it. All those things have to be taken into consideration. It’s just a shame that that World Cup team never ever played again.

Did you watch the Lions Tour and what did you think?

I watched the Test matches, I didn’t really get carried away with watching the midweek games. I just think it was a disappointing tour from start to finish. Looking back at previous Lions tours, there’s always the midweek team and the Saturday team. The Saturday team play together every week leading up to the Tests, get to know each other and get some consistency together. The Midweek team the pressure’s on them to perform really, but suddenly when you’re swapping 7-8 players between games suddenly consistency goes out the window.

How do you rate players like Andy Sheridan and Matt Stevens?

I spent some time with Sheridan at Sale. He’s a big strong and physical player. Now it’s just time to get him in the international side. He needs some game time. I don’t think he’s ever let anyone down. Matt Stevens has always impressed me and has never done anything wrong. Great attitude… he’s young. That’s the thing with these guys, they’re young; they haven’t got too much experience.

The starting XV for England’s game against Australia has caused some controversy amongst fans who were perhaps hoping for a bit more fresh blood and new talent. Any thoughts?

I think last year we had a very inexperienced backline, and we needed someone like a Tindall to give Charlie the confidence if something went wrong. They felt that Ellis, Hodgson, Noon and Tait were the players to start but once things got hard, where was the experience? Where was the guy who knew what needed to be done? If you had someone like a Tindall in there, who’s been there and done it, played with the likes of Jonny, Greenwood then suddenly his experience steadies the ship down. I think things like that are vital.

What’s harder, loosehead or tighthead?

[thinks] I used to play tighthead when I was 16 playing for Cornwall, then I moved across to loosehead to accommodate [Phil] Vicks because he basically couldn’t play loosehead, because it was too hard for him.

… There’s your answer then!

[laughs]
 

Any advice for young props or forwards in general?

I think it’s vital nowadays with the high contact and collision to make sure you look after yourself specifically your neck and back. Don’t neglect anything like that throughout your career. Also as a front row forward these days, you’ve got to be able to ball handle; you can’t just be a scrummager. You take New Zealand, they’re playing this 15 man game, and any of their players can pick the ball up, and I think you’ve definitely got to have that in the game. Although a lot of people now concentrate on weights... I think you’ve also got to have the skills to go with it. It’s a fine balance.

Who would you like to see at the bottom of a big ruck?

I don’t think I was ever a malicious person in that way to be honest, I always think rugby is too small to go around making statements like that! You never know when you’ll bump into them next. But there’d be a few on my hit-list I tell you! [laughs]

…Any England players?

Of course not. [grins]

Do you still get noticed walking down the street?

Yeah sometimes, but it’s a bit different now. I’ve grown my hair a bit longer, and don’t particularly look like a full on rugby player any more I guess, so I blend in a bit more, rather than this big oaf walking down the street!

What’s the future hold for you? Have you considered coaching?

To be honest, looking at life at the moment… before I rush into anything, I just want to experience a few things; talk to a few people in the next 6 months and see what I want to do. I haven’t got any great plans at the moment, coaching is always a possibility but I don’t want to rush into anything. I’ve got to get my back sorted physically, and that’s improving a lot in the last couple of months. They reckon though it could take up to two years until it’s finally fixed. Mentally I’m a lot better off now than I was 2 months ago though.

Time for some quick-fire questions. Lager or Bitter?

…Guinness. It’s my drink of the moment.

DIY or don’t ask me?

Yeah I don’t mind doing it!

Chinese or Indian food?

Indian.
 

Scissor Sisters or Coldplay?

Scissor Sisters.

Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings?

Lord of the Rings.

Golf or Pool?

See that’s a difficult one, I’ve just started playing snooker again… Gotta be golf, it’s outdoors.

Beach Holiday or City Break?

Beach.

Boxers or Briefs?

Boxers!

The last part about his condition improving a lot in the past couple of months, coupled with the fact that he’s now a lot better off mentally, made me smile. I can’t imagine having to go through what Trevor’s had to endure over the past year. No one should have to go through that but the fact that Dougie himself seemed very relaxed and comfortable with where he’s at in his life was great to see and hear. He has a humour-laced seriousness which is interesting and fun to talk to.

Trevor Woodman encompassed everything that the modern day prop should be, but rather than simply scrummaging well and being able to pick the ball up from time to time, he excelled in what he did. But then I suppose you would have to, to displace players like Leonard and Rowntree. Never one to back away from the opposition, Dougie was an integral part of the team at Gloucester and was an outstanding loosehead prop for England, proving to be vital for England’s World Cup win and making the number 1 shirt his own.

Perhaps a few extra caps would have been nice, but at the end of the day, rugby’s only a game, and he’s certainly won it.

Thanks for everything you’ve done for England Rugby Dougie and thanks for taking time to answer ‘a few’ questions. We wish you well.

Patrick Khachfe

Trevor Woodman meeting the Duke of Kent

TREVOR WOODMAN, MBE

Height: 6ft
Date of Birth: 4th August 1976: Liskeard, Cornwall
Previous Clubs: Bath, Gloucester, Sale Sharks
Country: England, debut 21/08/99 v USA
Caps: 22
Career status: Retired
Honours: MBE 2004 New Year's Honours List