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The Tackle area and it's interpretation?


Premiership

By Moorsman
September 27 2010

Are you as confused as I am about the way the tackle area is being refereed? Well here's what the Law book says and a few questions I have. I'm sure there are many more to be asked though. It would be great if we as supporters could get some response from a referee or two.

Where is this season's Tackle Interpretation taking us?

The newspapers and club message boards are awash with comments and criticism of referee performances with regard to the tackle area.  I thought I'd go to the Law book and see what it says.

Under the current 'interpretation' it appears there is an assumption that the attacking side is being given an advantage at the tackle area but surely if the Laws were applied correctly we might have the situation where both teams are given an opportunity to compete for the ball on equal terms, which in my opinion would make for a far more interesting contest.

So here are the Laws and a few questions/comments of my own.  What do you think?

 IRB Laws of the game 2010  (this link also gives access to some video footage to demonstrate the individual Law)

15.3 BROUGHT TO THE GROUND DEFINED

(a) If the ball carrier has one knee or both knees on the ground, that player has been ‘brought to ground’. (does this apply for a 'tap' tackle?)
(b) If the ball carrier is sitting on the ground, or on top of another player on the ground the ball carrier has been ‘brought to ground’.

15.4 THE TACKLER

(a) When a player tackles an opponent and they both go to ground, the tackler must immediately release the tackled player. Sanction: Penalty kick (the key word here appears to be immediately.  It appeared to me when thinking about the Quins match that there were several occassions when Chiefs players made a tackle which brought a Quins player 'to the ground' whereupon they did release immediately and the tackled player was allowed to continue as they were 'not held'.)

(b) The tackler must immediately get up or move away from the tackled player and from the ball at once. Sanction: Penalty kick 

(c) The tackler must get up before playing the ball and then may play the ball from any direction.  Sanction: Penalty kick 

15.5 THE TACKLED PLAYER

(a) A tackled player must not lie on, over, or near the ball to prevent opponents from gaining possession of it, and must try to make the ball available immediately so that play can continue.  Sanction: Penalty kick
(I guess there is a let-out here with the words 'must try' however 15.5b indicates this must be immediate)

(b) A tackled player must immediately pass the ball or release it. That player must also get up or move away from it at once.  Sanction: Penalty kick 

(c) A tackled player may release the ball by putting it on the ground in any direction, provided this is done immediately.  Sanction: Penalty kick       (once again the action should be immediate but surely once the ball has been placed it should be released.  How often is the tackled players hand on the ball long after the tackle has been made?)

15.6 OTHER PLAYERS

(a) After a tackle, all other players must be on their feet when they play the ball. Players are on their feet if no other part of their body is supported by the ground or players on the ground.  Sanction: Penalty kick 

Exception: Ball goes into the in-goal. After a tackle near the goal line, if the ball has been released and has gone into the in-goal any player, including a player on the ground, may ground the ball.

(b) After a tackle any players on their feet may attempt to gain possession by taking the ball from the ball carrier’s possession.

(c) Players in opposition to the ball carrier who remain on their feet who bring the ball carrier to ground so that the player is tackled must release the ball and the ball carrier. Those players may then play the ball providing they are on their feet and do so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or a tackler closest to those players’ goal line.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(d) At a tackle or near to a tackle, other players who play the ball must do so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or the tackler closest to those players’ goal line.  Sanction: Penalty kick 

(e) Any player who gains possession of the ball at the tackle must play the ball immediately by moving away or passing or kicking the ball.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(f) Any player who first gains possession of the ball must not go to the ground at the tackle or near to it unless tackled by an opposition player.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(g) Any player who first gains possession of the ball at the tackle or near to it may be tackled by an opposition player providing that player does so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or the tackler closest to that player’s goal line.  Sanction: Penalty kick 

(h) After a tackle, any player lying on the ground must not prevent an opponent from getting possession of the ball.  Sanction: Penalty kick 

(i) After a tackle, any player on the ground must not tackle an opponent or try to tackle an opponent.  Sanction: Penalty kick

(j) When a tackled player reaches out to ground the ball on or over the goal line to score a try, an opponent may pull the ball from the player’s possession, but must not kick or attempt to kick the ball.
Sanction: Penalty kick

15.7 FORBIDDEN PRACTICES

(a) No player may prevent the tackled player from passing the ball.
Sanction: Penalty kick 

(b) No player may prevent the tackled player from releasing the ball and getting up or moving away from it.  Sanction: Penalty kick 

(c) No player may fall on or over the players lying on the ground after a tackle with the ball between or near to them.  Sanction: Penalty kick 

(d) Players on their feet must not charge or obstruct an opponent who is not near the ball.  Sanction: Penalty kick (what is defined as being 'near the ball' as it appears common practice to take out anyone remotely connected to the tackle area?)

(e) Danger may arise if a tackled player fails to release the ball or move away from it immediately, or if that player is prevented from so doing. If either of these happens the referee awards a penalty kick immediately.
Sanction: Penalty kick

15.8 DOUBT ABOUT FAILURE TO COMPLY

If the ball becomes unplayable at a tackle and there is doubt about which player did not conform to Law, the referee orders a scrum immediately with the throw-in by the team that was moving forward prior to the stoppage or, if no team was moving forward, by the attacking team.

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thechiefstribe.com
The Tackle area and it's interpretation?
thechiefstribe.com (IP Logged)
27/09/2010 21:47
What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.

 
Peter Ord
Re: The Tackle area and it's interpretation?
28/09/2010 09:05
The laws have not changed only the interpretation as defined by the new protocols. However, its no use us or any other side's supporters moaning every week that we were badly treated. What we have to do is watch the most recent recordings of our next referee and then take time before the game speaking with him as to just how he sees it and get on with the game.

I believe we have coaches and players who can do us proud this season if they learn quickly how to operate with any given referee. Play to him properly and we will play a lot of the game in our opponants half and we pretty much need to be in that area if we are to progress. The real bonus if we can achieve this is that if you are constantly defending it knackers you much more quickly than defending.

 
Hilltop Chief
Re: The Tackle area and it's interpretation?
Hilltop Chief (IP Logged)
28/09/2010 10:19
I agree with TH. The rules are quite clear, but it's each individual ref's interpretation according to current protocols which differs and therefore makes it difficult to prepare for. I don't know how each club / coach approaches this issue, but if we are being professional surely it's a critical part of game preparation to speak to the match ref as early as possible so that his "eccentricities" can be catered for in training. But the real point is that this should be completely unnecessary because there should be no room for differences of interpretation. "Rules is Rules". We can all accept the odd mistake from a ref - it's not possible for any human being to get all decisions correct, but what gets me is inconsistency. Time & again we see exactly the same situation being dealt with differently and it leaves the players uncertain of where they stand.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: The Tackle area and it's interpretation?
fatheralice (IP Logged)
28/09/2010 12:13
Both captains were spoken to by the ref during the 1st half on sat...the difference being Quins adapted better.

Hopefully the team will learn to use a different tactic such as not commiting men to the ruck ala Glaws on Sat, fr situations when the ref doesn't allow a contest. It seemed to happen in the A league game v Sarries, and it took half time to change the tactic. We need to make these changes during the game, rather than waiting for half time or full time, when it is too late!

As mentioned on another thread, it certainly seems attack is the best form of defence at the moment.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: The Tackle area and it's interpretation?
TAKODA (IP Logged)
28/09/2010 18:50
As H C said its the inconsistency that is frustrating. Some refs seem to ping you the second you hit the ground, others seem fairer in giving you the opportunity to roll away. No one wants to see the ball in a ruck for minutes at a time but at least let the players compete for the ball.

 
ETNTAFF
Re: The Tackle area and it's interpretation?
ETNTAFF (IP Logged)
28/09/2010 19:17
"giving the opportunity to roll away" exactly it Tak
even in league the Refs tell the tackler to release which may only be a fraction of seconds but while he,s yelling
there is "opportunity".they cant give the instruction
with the wistle already in their mouth.

 
ETNTAFF
Re: The Tackle area and it's interpretation?
ETNTAFF (IP Logged)
28/09/2010 19:23
Oops! Whistle

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: The Tackle area and it's interpretation?
TAKODA (IP Logged)
28/09/2010 20:09
Even inviting a ref to training, would this really help? His interpretation maybe, almost definitely, be different from another. Perhaps its not the players that need it explained in more detail, but the refs to ensure consistency? Directives should be followed and not interpreted.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: The Tackle area and it's interpretation?
Geronimo Jim (IP Logged)
28/09/2010 20:51
On the subject of a "tap tackle" the "tackled" player is free to get up and continue playing.

The tackle is only a tackle when the tackler has held the tackled player until the tackle is complete (tackled player brought to ground).

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: The Tackle area and it's interpretation?
Chief caps (IP Logged)
29/09/2010 20:33
Quote:
TAKODA
Even inviting a ref to training, would this really help? His interpretation maybe, almost definitely, be different from another. Perhaps its not the players that need it explained in more detail, but the refs to ensure consistency? Directives should be followed and not interpreted.

This was brought up at the members meeting tonight, RB stated that he didn't think he needed to invite a Ref to SP as after his meeting with the match assessor it came to light that a lot of the penaltys against us shouldn't have been given so there was no need to find out what his team were doing wrong, if they weren't. And he saw no need to complain as being the new boys on the block he didn't want to get a bad name as sore losers.

Basically a lot of the penalties were conceded when our team were on the back foot and under pressure and they will learn to deal with this better.

Also they will learn how to handle a game when playing away Sometimes it's better to ensure they get the losing bonus point before going for the win.

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