Monye try not grounded
South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Monye try not grounded
By Lion's Eye
June 20 2009
British & Irish Lions Captain Paul O'Connell led the Lions out for their first test in the cauldron of Absa Stadium to take on the South African Springbok and within 5mins the Lions were rocking under the pressure of the Spring Bok pack and a try by captain John Smit. Next Match is at altitude better start saying our prayers
Monye try not grounded
June 20 2009
British & Irish Lions Captain Paul O'Connell led the Lions out for their first test in the cauldron of Absa Stadium to take on the South African Springbok and within 5mins the Lions were rocking under the pressure of the Spring Bok pack and a try by captain John Smit. Next Match is at altitude better start saying our prayers
South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions (First Test)
Saturday 20th June 2009 - Absa Stadium - Durban - South
British and Irish Lions captain Paul OConnell leads his players out before kick off - All Pictures by Empics
British & Irish Lions Captain Paul O'Connell led the Lions out for their first test in the cauldron of Absa Stadium to take on the South African Springbok and within 5mins the Lions were rocking under the pressure of the Spring Bok pack and a try by captain John Smit.
The Bok also gave a wonderful demonstration of the rolling maul and basically enjoyed their romp in the park for the first half. They dominated the Lions pack in the first half, Vickery blown out of the water, Mears not producing the goods when needed and Jones missing kicks.
British and Irish Lions Stephen Jones walks away dejected after the final whistle
The Lions had an early try by Monye disallowed, they gave penalties away and at times looked like they would go down by a heavy points loss as the Boks had smashed the Lions to take a 26-7 lead after 46 mins.
The Spring Bok coach feeling confident, made changes and the Lions came back fighting to within 5 points but it was too little too late, the damage had been done by the selection of the pack in the first half.
British and Irish Lions Tom Croft breaks through to score his and his sides second try
Tom Croft added a second try to his first-half effort and scrumhalf Mike Phillips went over to set up a nail biting finish, with the Boks just holding out.
British and Irish Lions Jamie Roberts (centre) breaks through a tackle from South Africas Adrian Jacobs (2nd left) and Juan Smith (right)
Thought Roberts had an excellent game and looked really good. I would hope to see the same side that left the field start next week except Jones bring on O'Gara because we need kicking points converted.
Must give credit to the South African defence they played their part in the match and they are a very strong side. Next Match is at altitude better start saying our prayers.
Think the lions will be licking their wounds tonight for - The Bok that got Away!
South Africas John Smit (left) and Tendai Mtawarira after the fianl whistle
South Africa (19) 26
Tries: Smit, Brussow Cons: Pienaar 2 Pens: Pienaar 3, Steyn
Lions (7) 21
Tries: Croft 2, Phillips Cons: Jones 3
South Africa: Frans Steyn, JP Pietersen, Adi Jacobs, Jean de Villiers, Bryan Habana; Ruan Pienaar, Fourie du Preez; Tendai Mtawarira, Bismarck du Plessis, John Smith (capt) Bakkies Botha, Victor Matfield, Heinrich Brussow, Juan Smith, Pierre Spies.
Replacements: Deon Carstens (for Smit, 65, Smit for ), Gurthro Steenkamp (for Mtawarira, 65) , Andries Bekker (for Botha, 57), Danie Rossouw (for Brussow, 52), Ricky Januarie (for Du Preez, 68), Morne Steyn (for Pienaar, blood 65, Pienaar for Jacobs, 74), Jaque Fourie (for De Villiers, 57)
Lions: Lee Byrne, Tommy Bowe, Brian O'Driscoll, Jamie Roberts, Ugo Monye, Stephen Jones, Mike Phillips; Gethin Jenkins, Lee Mears, Phil Vickery, Alun-Wyn Jones, Paul O'Connell, Tom Croft, David Wallace, Jamie Heaslip.
Replacements: Matthew Rees (for Mears, 50), Adam Jones (for Vickery, 45), Donncha O'Callaghan (for Wyn Jones, 68, Martyn Williams (for Wallace, 66), Harry Ellis, Ronan O'Gara, Rob Kearney (for Byrne, 38).
Referee: Bryce Lawrence (NZ)
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South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: Lions 2009 (IP Logged)
Date: 20/06/2009 16:19
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Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: clutch (IP Logged)
Date: 20/06/2009 17:39
Difficult game to analyse. Clearly the boks made the subs, when the game was 'won' and the Lions came back into it.
I'm reasonably positive about next week. I don't think we'll win, but the 09 Lions have already exceded my expectations.
Next week, the following needs to happen.
1. The set piece needs to improve, which it did when the surprisingly excellent Rees came on.
2. We need to practice defending mauls. SA will try and kill us next week.
3. We need a ref that understands that scummaging at 90 degrees to the scrum, at an upwards angle of 45 degrees is in fact not in the rules.
1 should improve, 3 depends on who we get. 2 on the other hand was the biggest worry. I've not seen a team get so far driven back in a maul for a longtime. Mind you, I haven't seen a maul in a while!!
Added to that we need to play Williams, to get to that breakdown.
It is possible that we can get close next week.
Bring it on!! Lets hope it's another cracker.
Roberts should sign for Sale, he's fantastic!
I'm reasonably positive about next week. I don't think we'll win, but the 09 Lions have already exceded my expectations.
Next week, the following needs to happen.
1. The set piece needs to improve, which it did when the surprisingly excellent Rees came on.
2. We need to practice defending mauls. SA will try and kill us next week.
3. We need a ref that understands that scummaging at 90 degrees to the scrum, at an upwards angle of 45 degrees is in fact not in the rules.
1 should improve, 3 depends on who we get. 2 on the other hand was the biggest worry. I've not seen a team get so far driven back in a maul for a longtime. Mind you, I haven't seen a maul in a while!!
Added to that we need to play Williams, to get to that breakdown.
It is possible that we can get close next week.
Bring it on!! Lets hope it's another cracker.
Roberts should sign for Sale, he's fantastic!
Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: Tiny George (IP Logged)
Date: 20/06/2009 18:01
Both locks were anonymous today, and one of those was Captain.
Leaderless on the pitch, it really needed POC to speak to the ref early on about the scrummaging, yes Vickery was unfairly pinged at times, but part of the Captains role is to get the ref's ear, POC failed miserably in that respect.
Sorry POC, I really rate you as a player but on current form I wouldn't pick you.
Leaderless on the pitch, it really needed POC to speak to the ref early on about the scrummaging, yes Vickery was unfairly pinged at times, but part of the Captains role is to get the ref's ear, POC failed miserably in that respect.
Sorry POC, I really rate you as a player but on current form I wouldn't pick you.
Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: Andy_m (IP Logged)
Date: 21/06/2009 08:31
Ha, ha, ha! The "might" of 4 national sides beaten by a a third world country. What a joke!
Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: arquero (IP Logged)
Date: 21/06/2009 08:46
Tiny George,
Both the Captain and Vickery tried to speak with the referee, whose response was something along the lines of "If you wish to speak to me about it you can, but it will be at half time". POC was then walking off the pitch at half time bending the referee's ear. so I think it's a bit unfair to say he failed miserably in that respect.
It's a NZ trait; you can't speak with those that won't listen when discussing rugby. Ask Rarua, and you'll see what I mean!
Both the Captain and Vickery tried to speak with the referee, whose response was something along the lines of "If you wish to speak to me about it you can, but it will be at half time". POC was then walking off the pitch at half time bending the referee's ear. so I think it's a bit unfair to say he failed miserably in that respect.
It's a NZ trait; you can't speak with those that won't listen when discussing rugby. Ask Rarua, and you'll see what I mean!
Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: Rarua (IP Logged)
Date: 21/06/2009 10:08
Oh dear!
Bryce Lawrence is a lousy ref (in fact NZ seems to have no decent refs running round right now) but he got the scrum right: Vickery may have been ok once but he is jelly now.
Bryce Lawrence is a lousy ref (in fact NZ seems to have no decent refs running round right now) but he got the scrum right: Vickery may have been ok once but he is jelly now.
Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: arquero (IP Logged)
Date: 21/06/2009 10:28
Rarua,
Oh Dear, indeed!
I don't think anybody would argue that Vicks had his finest game yesterday, but to call him "jelly now", and to say that the ref "got the scrum right" really rather sums up my point about you! IIRC, on the odd occasion the referee stood on the side of the SA loosehead at the scrum the Lions pack held its own; that tells ME something even if it doesn't YOU!
Oh Dear, indeed!
I don't think anybody would argue that Vicks had his finest game yesterday, but to call him "jelly now", and to say that the ref "got the scrum right" really rather sums up my point about you! IIRC, on the odd occasion the referee stood on the side of the SA loosehead at the scrum the Lions pack held its own; that tells ME something even if it doesn't YOU!
Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: Rarua (IP Logged)
Date: 21/06/2009 10:54
Watching the scrum disintegrate told me Vickery ain't up to the job.
Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: Chris B (IP Logged)
Date: 21/06/2009 11:04
Some people have stupid ideas in life. Graham Rowntree for example. Can all the Vickery lovers/Murray criticisers ("We need more then just a scrummager") have a nice big slice of humble pie.
My thoughts for the Lions:
1. Jenkins - The only starting front row who did his job properly. Solid, but lacked the support he needed for most of the game. Also the worlds fastet prop - Unlucky Habana! X-D 7/10
2. Tub'O'Mears - Undid all the decent work he did in the build-up. Looked more like his usual England & Bath form - i.e. Sh**e. Poor lineout killed us. 3/10
3. Vickery - Well there's a surprise. Not to say "I told you so..." 0/10
4. Wyn Jones - Redundant. Replace with Hynes for the second test. 2/10
5. POC - Quietly got on with his job. Was totally outclassed by Matfield however. 6/10
6. Croft - Good o/a performance. 2 well taken tries. Couple of silly penalties given away. Quinlan fans can forever STFU. 6/10
7. Wallace - Crash. Bang. Do f*** all. Williams next week. 4/10
8. Heaslip - Didn't actually notice him all game. Make of that what you will. ???/10
9. Philips - Very good when not brain farting. Well taken score. Passing was a tad wayward. Still better then Ellis. 5.5/10
10. S Jones - 2 missed penalties aside, a good performance. Should continue with next test. 7/10
11. Monye - Did the hard bits brilliantly, then ballsed up the easy bits - Although JDV did well to cover defence for the 1st try. Defence was okay and he wasn't scared to leave the wing in attack. 6/10
12. Roberts - Wow. If the Lions had a MOTM, it'd be him. 8/10
13. BOD - Worked hard, started well but forced it towards the end of the game. 7/10
14. Bowe - Not what he was in the build-up games, but O/A was good. Very unlucky that Byrnes f*** up angle cost him a try. 7/10
15. Byrne - Bit rubbish really. Won't start the second test. 3/10
16. Rees - 100 times better the Mears, certainly saved the lineout. Will start the 2nd test with Ford on the Bench. 7.5/10
17. A Jones - Literally saved the Lions necks with improved scrummaging. Should start the 2nd test. 1,000,000/10 (for not being Vickery)
18. O'Callaghan - Better then Wyn Jones. Hardly spectacular however. 6/10
19. Williams - Dangerous and brilliant. 8/10
20. Ellis - Best performance he's ever had. Purely because he didn't play.
21. ROG - I cry when I see him in a Lions shirt. Luckily he didn't step onto the pitch.
22. Kearney - Brilliant. Start the second test. 8/10
O/A - The Lions that finished were much better then the Lions that started. The Scrum and Lineout cost us dearly, but no surprises here considering there isn't a decent forwards set-piece coach in the staff. The lions finished strong, but the Boks had taken their foot off the gas by the end. It was a thoroughly enjoyable finish to the game though!
The moment of the match was Jenkins gassing Habana for the tackle!
Promising for a good game next week. Lets hope nobody used the Altitude as an excuse and we get a ding-dong at loftus.
WARNING!
The above comments may contain traces of sarcasm and/or humour
They also may not reflect the opinions of the viewer
Reader discretion is advised
My thoughts for the Lions:
1. Jenkins - The only starting front row who did his job properly. Solid, but lacked the support he needed for most of the game. Also the worlds fastet prop - Unlucky Habana! X-D 7/10
2. Tub'O'Mears - Undid all the decent work he did in the build-up. Looked more like his usual England & Bath form - i.e. Sh**e. Poor lineout killed us. 3/10
3. Vickery - Well there's a surprise. Not to say "I told you so..." 0/10
4. Wyn Jones - Redundant. Replace with Hynes for the second test. 2/10
5. POC - Quietly got on with his job. Was totally outclassed by Matfield however. 6/10
6. Croft - Good o/a performance. 2 well taken tries. Couple of silly penalties given away. Quinlan fans can forever STFU. 6/10
7. Wallace - Crash. Bang. Do f*** all. Williams next week. 4/10
8. Heaslip - Didn't actually notice him all game. Make of that what you will. ???/10
9. Philips - Very good when not brain farting. Well taken score. Passing was a tad wayward. Still better then Ellis. 5.5/10
10. S Jones - 2 missed penalties aside, a good performance. Should continue with next test. 7/10
11. Monye - Did the hard bits brilliantly, then ballsed up the easy bits - Although JDV did well to cover defence for the 1st try. Defence was okay and he wasn't scared to leave the wing in attack. 6/10
12. Roberts - Wow. If the Lions had a MOTM, it'd be him. 8/10
13. BOD - Worked hard, started well but forced it towards the end of the game. 7/10
14. Bowe - Not what he was in the build-up games, but O/A was good. Very unlucky that Byrnes f*** up angle cost him a try. 7/10
15. Byrne - Bit rubbish really. Won't start the second test. 3/10
16. Rees - 100 times better the Mears, certainly saved the lineout. Will start the 2nd test with Ford on the Bench. 7.5/10
17. A Jones - Literally saved the Lions necks with improved scrummaging. Should start the 2nd test. 1,000,000/10 (for not being Vickery)
18. O'Callaghan - Better then Wyn Jones. Hardly spectacular however. 6/10
19. Williams - Dangerous and brilliant. 8/10
20. Ellis - Best performance he's ever had. Purely because he didn't play.
21. ROG - I cry when I see him in a Lions shirt. Luckily he didn't step onto the pitch.
22. Kearney - Brilliant. Start the second test. 8/10
O/A - The Lions that finished were much better then the Lions that started. The Scrum and Lineout cost us dearly, but no surprises here considering there isn't a decent forwards set-piece coach in the staff. The lions finished strong, but the Boks had taken their foot off the gas by the end. It was a thoroughly enjoyable finish to the game though!
The moment of the match was Jenkins gassing Habana for the tackle!
Promising for a good game next week. Lets hope nobody used the Altitude as an excuse and we get a ding-dong at loftus.
WARNING!
The above comments may contain traces of sarcasm and/or humour
They also may not reflect the opinions of the viewer
Reader discretion is advised
Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: Unofficial England Rugby. (IP Logged)
Date: 21/06/2009 11:16
Are you MAD ChrisB ?? you must be writing that comment
If he had kicked the penalties the Lions would have won + the game would have been a different one IMHO
get real will yA
Quote:10. S Jones - 2 missed penalties aside, a good performance. Should continue with next test. 7/10
If he had kicked the penalties the Lions would have won + the game would have been a different one IMHO
get real will yA
Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: Chris B (IP Logged)
Date: 21/06/2009 11:20
Quote:Britlion
Are you MAD ChrisB ?? you must be writing that comment
Quote:10. S Jones - 2 missed penalties aside, a good performance. Should continue with next test. 7/10
If he had kicked the penalties the Lions would have won + the game would have been a different one IMHO
get real will yA
Very good point. And did you know that if my auntie had balls she'd actually be my uncle.
Should O'Choke plays, the backs will never see the ball and Styen will make mincemeat of the territory, should Hook plays... Let's not go there.
Jones is the only valid option.
WARNING!
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:06:21:11:23:05 by Chris B.
Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: Unofficial England Rugby. (IP Logged)
Date: 21/06/2009 11:26
Chris B - what have you got against O'Gara ? Now wrong with him you seem to be bigoted IMHO
Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: Chris B (IP Logged)
Date: 21/06/2009 11:30
Share an opinion, receive abuse.
Nice message board this.
WARNING!
The above comments may contain traces of sarcasm and/or humour
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Nice message board this.
WARNING!
The above comments may contain traces of sarcasm and/or humour
They also may not reflect the opinions of the viewer
Reader discretion is advised
Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: Unofficial England Rugby. (IP Logged)
Date: 21/06/2009 11:36
oh yeah and you don't give abuse above to the players do you?
pot and kettle matey
Answer the question instead of doging it.
What have you got against O'Gara - simple question - answer it!
pot and kettle matey
Answer the question instead of doging it.
What have you got against O'Gara - simple question - answer it!
Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: Patrick (IP Logged)
Date: 21/06/2009 12:06
Quote:Chris B
2. Tub'O'Mears - Undid all the decent work he did in the build-up. Looked more like his usual England & Bath form - i.e. Sh**e. Poor lineout killed us. 3/10
He had an off day for the first time in long time in an international. Could have been worse... Hartley could be out there!!
Quote:Chris B
9. Philips - Very good when not brain farting. Well taken score. Passing was a tad wayward. Still better then Ellis. 5.5/10
Phillips was godawful as he always is at his regular scrum half duties of getting to breakdowns QUICKLY and getting the ball away QUICKLY. Why does he have to not only cradle the ball in his arms, but also take three or four steps before passing?
Quote:Chris B
10. S Jones - 2 missed penalties aside, a good performance. Should continue with next test. 7/10
Agreed. Needs his kicking boots though, and the quality ball he received from the 9 didn't help.
Quote:Chris B
22. Kearney - Brilliant. Start the second test. 8/10
Agreed
Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: ClaireJ (IP Logged)
Date: 21/06/2009 14:14
Patrick,
An interesting insight from Ian Robertson yesterday was that the Boks think Mears is too small for an international hooker. The tactics at the scrum were actually to target both Mears and Vickery. I think the Boks did a number on him and the plan worked. Hartley is not relevant as he isn't on the tour though I can't wait to see the big man munch Mears in next year's GP. I doubt we'll see Mears in the second test.
Chris B - how can you give Monye such a high rating when he committed the schoolboy error of holding the ball under the wrong arm? He butchered two try scoring chances as a result of this basic skill for a left wing.
Heaslip did a hell of a lot of ball carrying so goodness knows why you didn't see him likewise Wallace who was very strong in the the tackle.
And why the Boks didn't lose a man in the second half remains a mystery to me! How many penalities???
ClaireJ
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An interesting insight from Ian Robertson yesterday was that the Boks think Mears is too small for an international hooker. The tactics at the scrum were actually to target both Mears and Vickery. I think the Boks did a number on him and the plan worked. Hartley is not relevant as he isn't on the tour though I can't wait to see the big man munch Mears in next year's GP. I doubt we'll see Mears in the second test.
Chris B - how can you give Monye such a high rating when he committed the schoolboy error of holding the ball under the wrong arm? He butchered two try scoring chances as a result of this basic skill for a left wing.
Heaslip did a hell of a lot of ball carrying so goodness knows why you didn't see him likewise Wallace who was very strong in the the tackle.
And why the Boks didn't lose a man in the second half remains a mystery to me! How many penalities???
ClaireJ
Saints vs London Wasps...
RedHatPhoto - supporting Soane Tonga'uiha's Testimonial - all the details on Tiny's site...
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Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: whingebasher (IP Logged)
Date: 21/06/2009 17:19
I think theres considerable mileage in the idea that both Vicks and Mears were targeted. Mears is small for an international player in whatever position. Its quite remarkable how effective he normally is in the loose, but I dont think well see him start next week either.
Mtawarira spent fully 20 minutes head to head with Adam Jones before he went off and got virtually no change out of him at all. However 15 of those 20 minutes were with Rees beside him.
I actually thought that McGeechan could/should have taken Hartley as a wild card to be honest.
Mtawarira spent fully 20 minutes head to head with Adam Jones before he went off and got virtually no change out of him at all. However 15 of those 20 minutes were with Rees beside him.
I actually thought that McGeechan could/should have taken Hartley as a wild card to be honest.
Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: clutch (IP Logged)
Date: 21/06/2009 17:42
If Jones had kicked the goals, we wouldn't have won the game. In fact SA would not have taken off so many players if the match was closer.
Vickery wasn't up to it, but I'd struggle when a ref allows someone to blatently cheat. Fair play to the beast for getting away with it.
Chris B, they really are the most miserable scores I've seen given to a group of players. We all know that we aren't as good as SA, and we almost snatched it at the death. Your marks suggest it finished 108-3.
Plus the Mears comments are unusual. You suggest he was back to his England/Bath form. So good in the lineout, and useful round the park? In fact he was most unlike his usual Bath performances.
Claire, I wouldn't say Monye butchered the first chance. I thought it was a good effort considering the blatent forward made the finish more difficult. Fortunately the second clear cock up didn't matter, as Croft scored soon after.
Vickery wasn't up to it, but I'd struggle when a ref allows someone to blatently cheat. Fair play to the beast for getting away with it.
Chris B, they really are the most miserable scores I've seen given to a group of players. We all know that we aren't as good as SA, and we almost snatched it at the death. Your marks suggest it finished 108-3.
Plus the Mears comments are unusual. You suggest he was back to his England/Bath form. So good in the lineout, and useful round the park? In fact he was most unlike his usual Bath performances.
Claire, I wouldn't say Monye butchered the first chance. I thought it was a good effort considering the blatent forward made the finish more difficult. Fortunately the second clear cock up didn't matter, as Croft scored soon after.
Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: kiwitaff (IP Logged)
Date: 21/06/2009 18:16
Can't blame Jones for losing the game, that first penalty shot would have been tough for anyone and there's certainly no guarantee O'Gara would have kicked it. If you go down the route of blaming individuals for the loss then Monye cost us at least 10 points in missed tries (although in reality the first was defensive genius!), Vickery cost at least 9 points in penalties he gifted both in scrum and loose and probably should have been carded (if you agree that he was indeed the one offending at the scrum but he still committed silly penalties in the loose!). The fact is the Lions backs looked strong and the team may have stood a good chance had they been given any sort of set piece platform. Everyone knows the lineout will be tricky against the Boks but the lack of a scrum for 50 minutes really hurt us. Why the coaches didn't make a change after 20 minutes when it was aduntantly clear Vickery was getting mullered I really can't understand! Claire also makes a fair point - the Boks were so cynical in the second hald when they knew the Lions couldn't take the points and the ref should have gone yellow but didn't even issue a warning!
Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: Rarua (IP Logged)
Date: 21/06/2009 19:12
I'm going to ask Gary Knight (AB prop who played against a Lions team) for his opinion as to who was cheating or trying to.
It looked to me that Mtawarira was fronting up ok. Vickery didn't appear to want to bind and his body went in at the 45 you accuse the Bok bloke doing.
It looked to me that Mtawarira was fronting up ok. Vickery didn't appear to want to bind and his body went in at the 45 you accuse the Bok bloke doing.
Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: clutch (IP Logged)
Date: 21/06/2009 22:41
I'm beginning to believe you, as you seen so insistent.
The scrum is a matter of opinion, rather than fact. I'd be intruiged to see what Mr Knight says.
The scrum is a matter of opinion, rather than fact. I'd be intruiged to see what Mr Knight says.
Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
Date: 22/06/2009 01:49
Pat, you need to get some help re your obsession with Phillips. It may be true that he doesn't have the greatest pass, but godawful is well wide of the mark. There was only one Lion willing to mix it physically with the Bok forwards, guess what number he had on his back. He got plenty of passes away to Jones, but Lions tactics seemed to insist on having a forward on his shoulder to take the carry, quite why, when Roberts was so clearly our most potent attacking weapon is beyond me.
I hope all sharp objects have been removed from the Chris_B household.
Don't entirely buy into the Boks removing players because the game was won, I bleieve there was a certain mount of running out of steam too. The blatant cheating to get Smit back onto the pitch must be removed from the game.
There is hope for the Lions in remaining tests, but the Boks will be better too.
We are the angry mob. We read the papers every day. We like who we like, we hate who we hate, but we're also easily swayed.
I hope all sharp objects have been removed from the Chris_B household.
Don't entirely buy into the Boks removing players because the game was won, I bleieve there was a certain mount of running out of steam too. The blatant cheating to get Smit back onto the pitch must be removed from the game.
There is hope for the Lions in remaining tests, but the Boks will be better too.
We are the angry mob. We read the papers every day. We like who we like, we hate who we hate, but we're also easily swayed.
Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: Rarua (IP Logged)
Date: 22/06/2009 06:56
The Lions scrum coach (Rowntree) acknowledged that Vickery was the one at fault. In other words Mtawariwa was scrummaging properly. So they ought to have dragged Vickery after 25 minutes at the latest. And to be honest I saw no reason to keep Mears on the field either.
I have asked this question before but why do UK teams produce so much dross in the 10 jersey? It makes the scrum half need to become a mini-loose forward. What is the point of rocket delivery to the outside half if the he stuffs it up more often than uses it efficiently.
Your centres were a class above the boks pairing and the back three were pretty equal. So, since the forwards were getting well and truly rogered it was even more important to run the ball to the centres and beyond.
The Lions did it a bit, but had they done it a lot the results may have been much more interesting.
I have asked this question before but why do UK teams produce so much dross in the 10 jersey? It makes the scrum half need to become a mini-loose forward. What is the point of rocket delivery to the outside half if the he stuffs it up more often than uses it efficiently.
Your centres were a class above the boks pairing and the back three were pretty equal. So, since the forwards were getting well and truly rogered it was even more important to run the ball to the centres and beyond.
The Lions did it a bit, but had they done it a lot the results may have been much more interesting.
Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: kiwitaff (IP Logged)
Date: 22/06/2009 08:50
Difficult for any 9 or 10 to function with so little quality ball. Jones got good control once the scrum and, to an extent, lineout improved.
Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: clutch (IP Logged)
Date: 22/06/2009 11:13
I wouldn't say dross, just different to the SH 10's.
Jones has a good pass, and eye for a gap. He lacks class, and his kicking(technique) isn't the best.
O'Gara is a superb kicker of the ball, as good as any SH 10 I have seen of late.
Jones has a good pass, and eye for a gap. He lacks class, and his kicking(technique) isn't the best.
O'Gara is a superb kicker of the ball, as good as any SH 10 I have seen of late.
Re: South Africa 26 v 21 British & Irish Lions - Thoughts
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 22/06/2009 11:37
Chris_B - you are a fool who clearly hasn't seen any NH rugby in recent years.
Rara - ask your prop friend when driving your opposite man upwards and off his feet was made legal again - it was outlawed some years ago because it is dangerous. Obviously the current law book hasn't reach NZ yet. The first 2 scrums saw the beast do that to Vickery, should have been 2 Lions penalties.
Thereafter the beast was regularly dipping and turning in. Vickery with his experience should have been able to counter it but didn't. Adam Jones had clearly worked out a solution.
Rara - ask your prop friend when driving your opposite man upwards and off his feet was made legal again - it was outlawed some years ago because it is dangerous. Obviously the current law book hasn't reach NZ yet. The first 2 scrums saw the beast do that to Vickery, should have been 2 Lions penalties.
Thereafter the beast was regularly dipping and turning in. Vickery with his experience should have been able to counter it but didn't. Adam Jones had clearly worked out a solution.
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