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London Scottish v London Welsh - Pre-season Preview
By Mark W-J
August 19 2010
London Welsh’s 125th anniversary season continues with a re-enactment of our first ever fixture. On 24th October 1885, after a single trial match at Putney, we faced London Scottish at Saracens’ Palmerston Road in Walthamstow, losing by a dropped goal and a try to nil. In those days, games were decided by the number of goals scored, with points not being introduced until the following season.


Bizarrely, we didn’t entertain our fellow Exiles in a home fixture until 22nd January 1949 at Herne Hill – by which time we had 16 different ‘home’ grounds.  Scottish had left Old Deer Park for the Athletic Ground in 1894 – we never played them as the away side at ODP – and the game at SE24 drew a crowd in excess of 3,000, the biggest since 3,500 witnessed the visit of Newport nearly 30 years previously.  In 31 seasons of rugby at Herne Hill, no English opposition drew a bigger crowd to Burbage Road.

 

Meetings of the two clubs in league and cup have been shared equally.  A second round cup-tie at the Athletic Ground in 1973 resulted in a comfortable 22-7 away win, but ten years later at ODP our neighbours exacted their revenge with a 15-6 victory.  On both occasions, Welsh had felt that cup success was in their grasp.  The 1972-73 campaign began with victory over Quins in front of a crowd in excess of 10,000 at HQ, and after sweeping the Scottish aside we had a famous trip to Penryn before falling to Bristol in the now infamous semi-final.  Ten years on, under the captaincy of Bruce Bradley and bolstered by the arrival of Bob Ackerman, already capped as a teenager against New Zealand, Welsh overpowered the joint-holders, Gloucester, at Kingsholm in the third round before comfortably disposing of Lichfield to set-up the local derby in the last eight.  That Scottish then lost at home in the semi-finals to a Leicester side whom we had already defeated home and away did little to dispel the belief that it should have been ‘our year’.

 

In league rugby, we spent the first three years together before following divergent paths.  The first meeting, in the spring of 1988, resulted in a 24-24 draw at ODP – the only home game we didn’t lose that season.  In those days, league games were considered optional, but with one point awarded for a defeat (two for a draw and four for a win) there was an incentive to fulfil the fixtures.  Yet teams met only once per season in the league, and until the home-and-away format was adopted Welsh always had fewer home fixtures due to the unavailability of Old Deer Park from mid-April to mid-September.  The following season, both clubs were relegated, although Welsh had the satisfaction of claiming their only victory of the year against the Scots, 29-10, again at ODP.  But in 1989-90, Scottish bounced-back with a clean-sweep of 11 wins from 11, including a narrow 18-14 win over the Welsh at the Athletic Ground, thus being promoted alongside runners-up Wakefield.  We also left Courage Three after just one season – but in the opposite direction.

 

Just two years later, Scottish and West Hartlepool were promoted to Courage One, replacing the relegated Nottingham and Rosslyn Park.  However, the leagues were restructured at the end of the 1992-93 season to allow for home-and-away fixtures, and Scottish were among the four teams relegated to Courage Two in order to trim the top flight from 13 clubs to ten.  Five years later, they returned to the top flight – now the Allied Dunbar Premiership – after beating Bristol in a two-legged promotion/ relegation play-off.  Scottish left the Athletic ground for The Stoop – Richmond, already promoted twelve months previously, were now calling the Madejski ‘home’ – but owner Tony Tiarks, who had bankrolled the push for promotion after buying the club for £500,000 in 1996, lost interest faster than he was losing money.  There was talking of merging with (or selling out to) Bristol, in order for the fallen West Countrymen to secure a fast-track back to the Premiership, but ultimately, in a stitch-up which conveniently fit with the RFU’s plans to reduce the size of the top flight by two, both Scottish and Richmond were ejected from the Premiership after entering administration.  Surely nobody could seriously suggest such a Draconian punishment…

 

The two professional clubs were ostensibly merged with London Irish, while their amateur arms began life in Herts/ Middx One – where London Welsh Amateurs will play this season - alongside the likes of Old Hamptonians and London New Zealand.  Six promotions in nine years found Scottish back in National One (level three) last year – the place where our paths last crossed 20 years previously.  They finished the season as runners-up to Esher, with a return of 22 wins and a draw from 30 games, and are widely expected to be serious challengers for promotion again this season.

 

Like London Welsh, they start the new season with a new Head Coach – and like London Welsh, he’s a recognised sevens specialist.  Simon Amor is an Old Hamptonian and Cambridge Blue who won the inaugural IRB Sevens Player of the Year in 2004, and he’s inherited a squad which scored 130 tries last term.  Winger Charles Broughton bagged 20, while Amor himself was joint-twelfth highest try scorer with two – alongside former Druids captain, tight-head Andy Fahey.  Despite a number of recent departures across the golf course (including Matt Vines, Matt Fitzgerald, Rory Greenslade-Jones, Lee Cholewa, Gareth Swales, Steve Millard, Jonathan Pettermerides, Dave Ramsay and Dan Beard) only three former London Welshmen are listed in the current Scottish squad – Fahey, Owain Walbyoff and Darryl Ball.  Chief Executive Tony Copsey also made two appearances in the scarlet jersey at the start of the 2002-03 season, as well as 114 in the not-so-famous scarlet of Llanelli and 16 in the red of Wales.  It will be good to renew old friendships both on and off the pitch for what is a welcome return to the fixture list for supporters of both clubs.

 

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London Scottish v London Welsh - Pre-season Preview
Posted by: The Dragons\\\' Den (IP Logged)
Date: 18/08/2010 23:27

What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.

Re: London Scottish v London Welsh - Pre-season Preview
Posted by: nld (IP Logged)
Date: 19/08/2010 08:13

Think I read that former LW players Tim Holgate (via Tring) and Adam Kwasnicki (via Barking) have both joined LS this season.

Last season I was reminded that LI still have the LS and Richmond logos on their shirt from the time when the 3 professional sides 'merged'. Overtime they have moved from the orginal location on the sleeve to the bottom edge.

Was double checking this on the web last night and came across various myths about how the LI badge (as still worn by their amateur teams) was created. The two best stories both involve lots of drinks in a pub and the design being quickly put together. The object on which the design was sketched varies though. One story says that it was on the back of a cigarette packet, the other story suggests that the backside of a drunk LW player was the canvas!

Regardless of whether either is true they are both great stories.

Re: London Scottish v London Welsh - Pre-season Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 21/08/2010 14:02

LS 0-5 LW

Re: London Scottish v London Welsh - Pre-season Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 21/08/2010 14:06

LS 0 - 7 LW

Re: London Scottish v London Welsh - Pre-season Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 21/08/2010 14:10

LS 0 - 12 LW

Conv missed

Re: London Scottish v London Welsh - Pre-season Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 21/08/2010 14:34

LS 0-17 LW

Conv kick

0-19

Re: London Scottish v London Welsh - Pre-season Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 21/08/2010 14:40

LS 0-24 LW

Conv kick

0-26

Re: London Scottish v London Welsh - Pre-season Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 21/08/2010 14:45

LS 0-31 LW

Conv kick

0-33

Re: London Scottish v London Welsh - Pre-season Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 21/08/2010 14:50

LW Nick Runcimen Yellow carded

LS 5- 33 LW

Conv missed

Half time

Re: London Scottish v London Welsh - Pre-season Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 21/08/2010 15:07

LS 5-38 LW

Conv missed

Re: London Scottish v London Welsh - Pre-season Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 21/08/2010 15:11

LS 5-43 LW

5-45

Re: London Scottish v London Welsh - Pre-season Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 21/08/2010 15:18

LS 5-50 LW

Conv missed

Re: London Scottish v London Welsh - Pre-season Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 21/08/2010 15:24

LS 10-50 LW

Conv kick

12-50

LS 12-55 LW

Conv missed

Re: London Scottish v London Welsh - Pre-season Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 21/08/2010 15:35

LS 12-60 LW

Conv missed

Re: London Scottish v London Welsh - Pre-season Preview
Posted by: Blackheath Welsh (IP Logged)
Date: 21/08/2010 15:43

LS 12-65 LW

Conv kick

12-67

Full time

Re: London Scottish v London Welsh - Pre-season Preview
Posted by: adge1 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/08/2010 18:00

That'll do nicely - thanks BW!

Re: London Scottish v London Welsh - Pre-season Preview
Posted by: chairman of the board (IP Logged)
Date: 21/08/2010 18:45

not sure what we got out of this we scored almost at will once clean possession , Scottish have a bit to think about if they want to come up!

we have recuited well in hudson who ran midfield at will

no specialist full back

only problem might be getting enough possession as we seem to to have recruited v mobile forwards not sure enough grunt when it comes to it in middle of January
anyway i think the football score of it does not matter how many you score as we will score more comes to mind

Re: London Scottish v London Welsh - Pre-season Preview
Posted by: Haydn2 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/08/2010 19:07

And the only London Scottish try came from an ex London Welsh mini/ Youth player!

Re: London Scottish v London Welsh - Pre-season Preview
Posted by: Ian H (IP Logged)
Date: 22/08/2010 17:23

Yup - very impressive - some agressive running, fast hands and good clearout at the ruck. Set pieces were a bit dodgy though. Scrum was under pressure first half, steadied when Lorne came on and we aren't nailing the lines out yet. Still - should come with competition and looks like loads of open tunning rugby on the menu for this year
Good luck to the L Scots though for the coming season - their pack looks sorted and perhaps the backs just need some more game time together

Re: London Scottish v London Welsh - Pre-season Preview
Posted by: Newest Sir Benfro (IP Logged)
Date: 23/08/2010 09:26

Link to The Scots report on the game - have they mixed up Simon Whatling and Hudson T ?

[www.londonscottish.com]

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