Q & A with The Chairman
By Touchline
March 2 2009
Notes from an open meeting held by Dave Thompson last week. The opening part of the meeting was Thumper explaining background and how we got to where we are now.
March 2 2009
Notes from an open meeting held by Dave Thompson last week. The opening part of the meeting was Thumper explaining background and how we got to where we are now.
Objectives
10 years ago Thumper heard that John Hall was going to liquidate the Club and immediately decided to step in to provide the North East with a professional rugby club with a large number of England qualified players and a successful academy to develop local players.
“That’s why I invested and that’s why I’m still here”
There was some bitterness at other clubs and Gentlemen’s Agreements that were shaken on but later reneged on. All clubs agreed that at least 75% of a Club’s players would be England qualified. We complied and continue to do so but at least 5 clubs didn’t and very quickly the system went into disarray.
Club for Sale.
The decision to sell the club was based on a need to succession plan and ensure leadership for the future of the Club. Thumper is now 63 going on 64 and had thought that his daughter, a successful business woman, would succeed him. However, she has now moved to Australia and is not an option so buyers were sought.
Thumper thought that the first party would go ahead and the deal was close to closing until the ground was sold. This spooked the prospective purchaser who decided not to proceed. The second party was a local property developer. Thumper decided not to progress with him as he believed it was not in the best interests of the Club. Little was said about the third party other than he would have been a disaster for the Falcons and rugby in England for ages.
The Ground
A capacity is of 10,000 with 4,000 seated was a requirement to be in place by 2003. The board decided to go ahead with the expansion and Northern Rock provided a 10 year mortgage for £14M. The Management believed that this could be financed from the existing supporter base. This turned out to be wrong and the club was racking up losses. Northern Rock then bought the land and buildings and leased it back to the Club and wrote off the debt. The current requirement is that capacity has to increased to 15,000 to satisfy Premiership Rugby’s criteria, 13,000 of this is needed by 2010/2011 and the remainder 2 years later.
Thumper believed the 10 year leas was good for the Club as it gave it the option of moving to another location if the Council wouldn’t approve the ground expansion plans.
When Northern Rock put the ground up to sale it shook the Club and they put an unsuccessful bid in. Northumbria Uni was the highest bidder. Thumper was initially devastated when he heard they were the new owners. Now however he is convinced that they will be “phenomenal landlords”
They have agreed a series of ventures with the club for youth development and the Academy and everyone in the Academy is encouraged to sign up for a course at Northumbria. They are designing courses to fit around training etc
Young players will no longer be loaned out to local clubs unless there is no other option. The first port of call will be the University team playing at KP on Wednesdays.
Northumbria have the ambition to be the Number One University rugby team in the country and are now the only one with their own stadium.
Thumper expects that there may be an edict from the RFU as part of the EPS agreement that all Clubs have to play in the A league next year though he personally doesn’t see any benefit and it drives up Squad sizes.
The University and the Club are committed to developing the ground. There are plans to develop the North end with a new gym, training rooms and medical facilities in time for next season. The existing North Terrace will not be roofed as that would compromise the vision to add tiers there in the future.
Discussions continue on an all weather playing pitch. If it doesn’t go ahead in time for next season then the wendyball will go elsewhere and only the Falcons and The Uni will use the pitch will be upgraded as best as can be done.
Salary Cap
Was £3.4M last year and £4M this year. We do not spend up to it but there are clubs below us (including Bath). Thumper said there were 3 teams who are currently spending £4M and their incremental signings this year amounted to less that £600k!
Next season
PRL want a 28 game season. The Clubs need 17 home games to break even, 3 of these will be European games. The remaining 14 would comprise the 11 home matches in a 12 team league and then 6 further fixtures against GP teams, 3 each home and away, who would thus be played 3 times in a season.
The RFU don’t agree with this and are proposing a reversed Anglo Welsh tournament including ND1 Clubs.
Thumper promises 11 Premiership games, 3 European games plus 3 additional games. If not the 3 additional Premiership games them another Premiership tournament where teams play against each other for a financial prize will be developed.
The following year a new TV deal comes into being. There will be 3 live Premiership matches every weekend on various channels and will result in an uplift of £800k in TV money per club.
Part 2 to follow
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Posted by: FalconsRugby.org.uk (IP Logged)
Date: 02/03/2009 15:15
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Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: Blue Dragoon (IP Logged)
Date: 02/03/2009 16:04
Given we currently have a hard core fan base of approx 5,000 on a good day exactly from where are the club expecting to generate an additional 5,000 supporters to fill the ground to capacity in the short term and having found them an additional 3,000 in the longer term?
What are the marketing plans to realise this obvious requirement to get the club 'solvent' via ticket revenue and not be relient on the 'good will' of the chairman or RFU,Sky or Northumbria Uni subsidies?
I know success breeds success but I dont see any concerted drive to get out and about and onto the hustings to get school kids, students, families, rugby clubmen and women from the North East to come and support 'their' team; the effort is pretty amateur at the moment. Rugby is a great product but it's not being sold or marketed up here. In Darlo, Morpeth, Sunderland, Boro, Tynedale, Blaydon, Carlisle etc etc whilst not spectacularly successful (with the possible exception of Tynedale) we have some popular and reasonably stable clubs. Let's start with the clubs and branch out.
Any other prospective dragons got any other ideas or suggestions?
What are the marketing plans to realise this obvious requirement to get the club 'solvent' via ticket revenue and not be relient on the 'good will' of the chairman or RFU,Sky or Northumbria Uni subsidies?
I know success breeds success but I dont see any concerted drive to get out and about and onto the hustings to get school kids, students, families, rugby clubmen and women from the North East to come and support 'their' team; the effort is pretty amateur at the moment. Rugby is a great product but it's not being sold or marketed up here. In Darlo, Morpeth, Sunderland, Boro, Tynedale, Blaydon, Carlisle etc etc whilst not spectacularly successful (with the possible exception of Tynedale) we have some popular and reasonably stable clubs. Let's start with the clubs and branch out.
Any other prospective dragons got any other ideas or suggestions?
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: TouchLine (IP Logged)
Date: 02/03/2009 16:17
Thumper said that they are visiting all schools and youth organsiations to attempt to attract Juniors.
In the past average gates have been over 7000, so with the reduction in prices I think it's very likely that we'd see gates of 7-8000 even without the big increase in Juniors.
A continuation of recent success on the field can't do any harm either.
In the past average gates have been over 7000, so with the reduction in prices I think it's very likely that we'd see gates of 7-8000 even without the big increase in Juniors.
A continuation of recent success on the field can't do any harm either.
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: DGNTR (IP Logged)
Date: 02/03/2009 22:04
And if we do get the extra people at reduced prices the ticket revenue could well be around what it was.
Therefore extra emphasis has to be on increasing bar profits through a combination of better pricing, better product range and better service.
I do hope this is high on the agenda, it's a no brainer.
Therefore extra emphasis has to be on increasing bar profits through a combination of better pricing, better product range and better service.
I do hope this is high on the agenda, it's a no brainer.
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: Mally (IP Logged)
Date: 02/03/2009 23:01
The club are definitely trying to rope the local kids in - several of my lot who play for Blyth RFC junior sides informed me they are coming to the Quins game.... the kids are all really keen about coming along... however this means I shall be hiding behind my pint in case they see me...
Interesting re the North stand development - I can live without a roof - as long as my tickets stay cheap!
No voice, no spare cash, & no free time left at the weekends... oh yes the rugby season has started!!!!
Interesting re the North stand development - I can live without a roof - as long as my tickets stay cheap!
No voice, no spare cash, & no free time left at the weekends... oh yes the rugby season has started!!!!
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: Bill Sykes (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 09:12
"Young players will no longer be loaned out to local clubs unless there is no other option. The first port of call will be the University team playing at KP on Wednesdays."
What happens if they aren't students at Northumbria?
Who will go and watch these games on a Wednesday?
Are we suggesting that Northumbria Uni is a higher standard than Tynedale or Blaydon - if not how will it benefit the player? It will be interesting to see how this works, but could some of the story be paraphrased to:
"Northumbria Uni want to be the best rugby university in the country and as Falcons landlords will use their position to guarantee their success at the possible detriment of the players long term development and potentially that of local clubs"
i.e. who will have the final say over where a young player goes on loan? The 'no other option' bit adds to the confusion.
What happens if they aren't students at Northumbria?
Who will go and watch these games on a Wednesday?
Are we suggesting that Northumbria Uni is a higher standard than Tynedale or Blaydon - if not how will it benefit the player? It will be interesting to see how this works, but could some of the story be paraphrased to:
"Northumbria Uni want to be the best rugby university in the country and as Falcons landlords will use their position to guarantee their success at the possible detriment of the players long term development and potentially that of local clubs"
i.e. who will have the final say over where a young player goes on loan? The 'no other option' bit adds to the confusion.
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: TouchLine (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 09:23
The ambition is for everyone in the Academy to be encouraged to do some sort of course at Northumbria
If they aren't eligible or getting a game then clearly they will be loaned out. However with a smaller squad the likelihood of having so many players not playing regularly is considerably less.
Presumably there will be some ST holders who will go on Wednesdays as they get in free.
Who will have the final say on where a player goes on loan is clearly the Club.
I'm not saying I agree with any of this, just reporting what Thumper said. personally I don;t think a squad of 30 "experienced professionals" is anything like enough especially when the 4 or 5 Academy people who would step up virtually no experience at all. We need a lot of luck with injuries for this to be a viable strategy.
If they aren't eligible or getting a game then clearly they will be loaned out. However with a smaller squad the likelihood of having so many players not playing regularly is considerably less.
Presumably there will be some ST holders who will go on Wednesdays as they get in free.
Who will have the final say on where a player goes on loan is clearly the Club.
I'm not saying I agree with any of this, just reporting what Thumper said. personally I don;t think a squad of 30 "experienced professionals" is anything like enough especially when the 4 or 5 Academy people who would step up virtually no experience at all. We need a lot of luck with injuries for this to be a viable strategy.
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: Bill Sykes (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 09:29
So if a player is at the uni they will automatically play for the uni on a wednesday rather than a local club?
The follow on question is what happens if the uni team is over subscribed? Will we see Uni boys who can't make the uni team being loaned to local clubs?
The follow on question is what happens if the uni team is over subscribed? Will we see Uni boys who can't make the uni team being loaned to local clubs?
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: TouchLine (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 09:35
Perhaps you should have come the the Q&A and you could have asked Thumper yourself.
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: Leipziger (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 09:57
And the award for most helpful post of the day goes to...
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: TouchLine (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 10:19
What's that supposed to mean?
If a question was asked I've put it up. If someone didn't get the answers they wanted then who's fault is that?
If a question was asked I've put it up. If someone didn't get the answers they wanted then who's fault is that?
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: Leipziger (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 11:08
Couldn't you have just said "I don't know, nobody asked about that"?
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: TouchLine (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 11:37
Because that's obvious.
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: alchemist (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 12:00
At the first meeting I specifically asked DT how the new arrangement with Northumbria Univ would affect the existing relationships with local clubs and DT said that it would have no effect.
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: Oxonian (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 12:10
In the end the uni leagues arent as good as National 2 so the players will not get as good a devlopment
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: Bill Sykes (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 12:41
Which is my point.
I'm not offended by TL's post about asking questions - to be fair I was just asking in general rather than anyone specifically.
I can't see how players will benefit from playing for the uni in preference to playing at tynedale or blaydon and so was just concerned that the younger players at the club would be 'used' by the uni to become the best uni team in the country - which is another thing - I can understand why a uni would like to have the best rugby team in the country - but why is it so important that you have to buy your own ground etc to achieve that - is it really that important to a university?
The Q&A seems to be slightly contradictory wherein DT states that players will play for the uni unless there is no other option, but then has said that the club will have the final say on where the players play. If it is agreed that nat 2 is a better standard than uni and therefore players will benefit more from nat 2 exposure, why would the club ever elect to play players for the uni on a wednesday instead of a nat 2 club on a saturday?
If that makes sense!?
I'm not offended by TL's post about asking questions - to be fair I was just asking in general rather than anyone specifically.
I can't see how players will benefit from playing for the uni in preference to playing at tynedale or blaydon and so was just concerned that the younger players at the club would be 'used' by the uni to become the best uni team in the country - which is another thing - I can understand why a uni would like to have the best rugby team in the country - but why is it so important that you have to buy your own ground etc to achieve that - is it really that important to a university?
The Q&A seems to be slightly contradictory wherein DT states that players will play for the uni unless there is no other option, but then has said that the club will have the final say on where the players play. If it is agreed that nat 2 is a better standard than uni and therefore players will benefit more from nat 2 exposure, why would the club ever elect to play players for the uni on a wednesday instead of a nat 2 club on a saturday?
If that makes sense!?
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: Leipziger (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 12:56
"If it is agreed that nat 2 is a better standard than uni and therefore players will benefit more from nat 2 exposure, why would the club ever elect to play players for the uni on a wednesday instead of a nat 2 club on a saturday?"
Because the landlord says so presumably. Have to agree though that they'd benefit more playing for Blaydon or Tynedale.
Because the landlord says so presumably. Have to agree though that they'd benefit more playing for Blaydon or Tynedale.
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: batt murke (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 12:59
Bill,
Why not email Thumper direct at the club, I'm sure he will try to answer any questions that you pose. He said at the first talk in he would try to reply to any emails.
BM
Why not email Thumper direct at the club, I'm sure he will try to answer any questions that you pose. He said at the first talk in he would try to reply to any emails.
BM
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: JTDS (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 13:06
Most of the Uni players play on a Wednesday and again on a Saturday for other clubs at the moment so perhaps this will remain the case in the short term?
Perhaps the longer term plan is to propel Team Northumbria, who are currently in D+N Division 2, up to the National leagues similar to Loughborough who play in Nat3 North and then use this as the development team - similar to Gloucester who use Hartpury College in this manner.
Join_The_Dark_Side
Perhaps the longer term plan is to propel Team Northumbria, who are currently in D+N Division 2, up to the National leagues similar to Loughborough who play in Nat3 North and then use this as the development team - similar to Gloucester who use Hartpury College in this manner.
Join_The_Dark_Side
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: TouchLine (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 13:27
Thumper didn't say that the Club would have the final say.
That was my opinion. I can't see it being any other way, it's the Club paying the wages after all.
I think the point was that with a smaller squad players there will not be a significant number of players who are not getting games and thus have to be loaned out. With only 34-35 total players, by the time you've ruled out those injured there won't be many who aren't in the match squads. These will generally the 4 or 5 younger, less experienced back up players Thumper mentioned. Presumably playing for the Uni means they will train with the Club and are available for last minute selection which wouldn't be the case if loaned out.
All my opinion not Thumper's words.
That was my opinion. I can't see it being any other way, it's the Club paying the wages after all.
I think the point was that with a smaller squad players there will not be a significant number of players who are not getting games and thus have to be loaned out. With only 34-35 total players, by the time you've ruled out those injured there won't be many who aren't in the match squads. These will generally the 4 or 5 younger, less experienced back up players Thumper mentioned. Presumably playing for the Uni means they will train with the Club and are available for last minute selection which wouldn't be the case if loaned out.
All my opinion not Thumper's words.
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: Get Stuck In (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 17:30
Bill Sykes raises a good point about university rugby being a lower standard than Blaydon or Tynedale.
I think the answer is that the university will have first call on student players.
Maybe the big plus point is that Northumbria University - with the Kingston Park connection - will now be able to compete for the very best schoolboy rugby players. A lot of them used to go to Durham University (Carling, Greenwood, Oti), but they seem more interested in cricketers these days.
I guess the very best schoolboys would still want to go to Oxford or Cambridge, but both universities are under growing political pressure to recruit students from a wider social background. Being an elite rugby player is no longer an entry qualification for Oxbridge.
But I don't think that will be a problem for Northumbria?
I think the answer is that the university will have first call on student players.
Maybe the big plus point is that Northumbria University - with the Kingston Park connection - will now be able to compete for the very best schoolboy rugby players. A lot of them used to go to Durham University (Carling, Greenwood, Oti), but they seem more interested in cricketers these days.
I guess the very best schoolboys would still want to go to Oxford or Cambridge, but both universities are under growing political pressure to recruit students from a wider social background. Being an elite rugby player is no longer an entry qualification for Oxbridge.
But I don't think that will be a problem for Northumbria?
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: Oxonian (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 18:20
Being an elite rugby player is no longer an entry qualification for Oxbridge.
But I don't think that will be a problem for Northumbria?
Youd have to be pretty special not to manage to get into Northumbria.
But I don't think that will be a problem for Northumbria?
Youd have to be pretty special not to manage to get into Northumbria.
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: TouchLine (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 18:48
Quote:It didn't seem to hinder Joe Roff, Anton Oliver, Dan Guinness to name a few very muchBeing an elite rugby player is no longer an entry qualification for Oxbridge
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: Dr. B. (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 18:49
Ah, one of the great Universities ...... Oxford, Cambridge ...... Hull .....
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: TouchLine (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 18:51
Can't comment never been to Hull
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: Dr. B. (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 19:23
You've obviously never watched Blackadder Goes Forth either.
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: TouchLine (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 19:25
Certainly have but the old memory isn't what it used to be.
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: telfs123 (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 19:26
But one of those is not a great university.
Yes, oxfords a dump
Legendary programme
Yes, oxfords a dump
Legendary programme
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: Oxonian (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 19:47
Quote:TouchLineQuote:It didn't seem to hinder Joe Roff, Anton Oliver, Dan Guinness to name a few very muchBeing an elite rugby player is no longer an entry qualification for Oxbridge
Joe Roff did undergraduate PPE, thats not what you would do if you wanted an easy ride. Its 3 years for a start and hard. Lots of maths to do in economics. He has brains or he would have failed.
Re: Q & A with The Chairman
Posted by: TouchLine (IP Logged)
Date: 03/03/2009 20:08
You conveniently don't comment on the other two Guinness is doing a Masters in Migration Studies, hardly Nobel Prize winning stuff whatever it is and Oliver an MSc in Biodiversity, Environment and Management.
I doubt they would have got in if they didn't have a well used pair of rugby boots in their CV.
I doubt they would have got in if they didn't have a well used pair of rugby boots in their CV.
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