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Well done Alanquin, a very good report - as always.

Just a different perspective on Friday night's game. I was at Franklin's Gardens and when I got home and read the comments on the Quins & Saints web-sites I thought I had been at a different game so I watched the game again on ESPN before posting.

Too many of the comments on Sports Network come straight out of the "amateur" school of punditry which, sadly, is too often a copy of the "professional" school as practised by Sky, ESPN and the rest of the media.

The protocol goes as follows ... if Team "X" win then automatically all their players are brilliant and should play for their country ... if Team "Y" loses then automatically all of their players are rubbish and should never grace a rugby field again !

I exaggerate ... but only slightly !

The first thing to say is that Saints fully deserved the victory ... they dominated the set-piece; they took their chances to score tries and they kicked their penalties.

The difference between Quins in 2011 and the pre-2011 vintage is that last year Quins converted their possession & territory into points, especially in the "Red Zone".

On Friday night Quins dominated the first 10-15 minutes of each half but failed to put any points on the board.

Quins' high tempo game is based upon getting a fast start, putting points on the board and making the other team play "catch-up" rugby and relying on ferocious defence to keep them out. On Friday night that didn't happen but the scoreboard was unkind to Quins ... they left a lot of points out on the field in terms of kickable penalties that were missed and they failed to convert opportunities in the Saints' 22. Quins were forced to play "catch-up" rugby in the 2nd half and they showed how difficult it is.

Watching the ESPN coverage after the game highlighted that Quins did get a raw deal on occasions from the officials based on the comments from Austin Healey & Ben Kay during the game but the better team won on the night.

Andy Gomersal said on Twitter ... "Big win 4 Saints v mighty Quins. U get 1 of those every season, where nothing goes to plan. Bin it - move on quick smart."

Some of the ESPN comments about individual players on ESPN were a bit comical. Having tipped Lee Dickson for selection to the EPS during the week then Austin Healey was desperate to justify his decision.

Dickson must have come out of the game thinking ... "How come ?" ... How come my team won 24-3 ? How come our scrum was on top ? How come I was still the 2nd best scrum-half on the pitch ?"

Dickson will undoubtedly be in the EPS, he will be ahead of Joe Simpson in Stuart Lancaster's thinking, but he can only play behind a dominant pack. When Saints struggle up front then Dickson goes AWOL as evidenced in Saints' 2 biggest games last year - the Aviva play-off semi-final 2nd half v Tigers & the Heineken Cup Final 2nd half v Leinster. Care has spent his entire professional career at Leeds, Quins & England living off scraps so he knows how to deal with poor ball.

Today's Rugby Paper gave both Dickson & Care a 7 ... one was in a winning team, the other was on the losing side ... as the Americans say "go figure" !

Think back a couple of years when London Irish had a good season. At that time the rugby pundits (amateur & professional) were pushing certain Irish players for England honours ... Hodgson, Kennedy, Armitage (x2) ... forgive me but how many of those are now established England players?

Currently Quins & Saracens players are getting the same treatment from the pundits (amateur & professional). The trick in selection is being able to spot who is playing well in a losing team and who is being carried along by a winning team.

Still a long way to go this season and I expect Quins to bounce back strongly next week against Gloucester.

COME ON YOU QUINS !!

Quote:

bra'tac of chulak
Dickson must have come out of the game thinking ... "How come ?" ... How come my team won 24-3 ? How come our scrum was on top ? How come I was still the 2nd best scrum-half on the pitch ?"

Very amusing. Care was rattled after 5 minutes and didn't do anything positive from there on it.

The only Quins on that pitch who looked like they deserved their places on that pitch were Robshaw and JTH. The rest were made to look thoroughly second rate by their opposite numbers. Every single one of them.



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Is this still banter?

Danny Care was rubbish though!

Quote:

Mr B from Chulack
Just a different perspective on Friday night's game

No, indeed not.

Actually, if you read some of the more hysterical posts on here, it is.

Quote:

Chris B

Quote:

bra'tac of chulak
Dickson must have come out of the game thinking ... "How come ?" ... How come my team won 24-3 ? How come our scrum was on top ? How come I was still the 2nd best scrum-half on the pitch ?"

Very amusing. Care was rattled after 5 minutes and didn't do anything positive from there on it.

The only Quins on that pitch who looked like they deserved their places on that pitch were Robshaw and JTH. The rest were made to look thoroughly second rate by their opposite numbers. Every single one of them.

You must have missed Mike Brown...

He did well too but on the whole it wasn't a vintage night for Quins!

Quote:

Quinky Kin

Quote:

Chris B

Quote:

bra'tac of chulak
Dickson must have come out of the game thinking ... "How come ?" ... How come my team won 24-3 ? How come our scrum was on top ? How come I was still the 2nd best scrum-half on the pitch ?"

Very amusing. Care was rattled after 5 minutes and didn't do anything positive from there on it.

The only Quins on that pitch who looked like they deserved their places on that pitch were Robshaw and JTH. The rest were made to look thoroughly second rate by their opposite numbers. Every single one of them.

You must have missed Mike Brown...

I saw him get skinned by Foden if that's what you mean.
The Quins fans saying Brown is better are very reminicent of Leinster fans making a song and dance about Nacewa... Yeah, he's pretty good. Nowhere near as good though.



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I didn't see Brown skinned by Foden. I saw him blocked by a Saints player enough to let Foden past. I saw Foden walk in a three on one that even Frank Bruno could have scored.

Nice one, 'Arry!

Try,Try and Try again....!

DOK, that's poor I'm affraid.

Brown wasn't blocked. Because Quins were short numbered on that side, Brown had to defend much narrower than the Saints attacking line.

Downey doesn't run a blocking line and within a couple of steps, Foden has emerged level with James. Mike Brown was left with two much work to do as your left wing wasn't in position.

I agree that Downey's position stops Brown getting to Foden straight away, but that is because Mike is defending to the inside of Downey to start with and then has to get to the outside of him when Lamb's juggled loop pass goes over the top of both of them. Brown was defending too narrow because of lack of numbers and the miss pass to Foden left him out of position.

I agree with those above who thought Robshaw was your stand out player. As much as I'd like a Saintly England Captain, I do think that your Rob will be picked instead.

Whatever! We're clearly at the agree to disagree point. If I take this any further we're going to be in a circular argument.

On Brown vs Foden, I think Saint Kenneth is largely right. Brown had to cover a lot of ground and didn't have much option but to stay narrow and hope to drift wide quickly. Downey's line wasn't illegal, but it did slow him down enough that he couldn't get to Foden in time.

I thought the fact that he got as close as he did to making the tackle was pretty impressive under the circumstances.

But of all Quins players, the only one who unequivocally advanced his England cause on Friday was Robshaw.

But did Foden "skin" Brown? I think he beat him, sure. My definition of "skin" would require Brown to already be in a position to stop Foden, then Foden beats Brown by use of pace to pass him.

There's far too much navel gazing going on. Of course you guys want Brown to be in the XV as we would like Foden. The important thing is that we have two really class fullbacks that England can pick from.

As someone said on this thread, or another, we played like idiots at home against the Scarlets, the odd bad game happens.

Last weekend you were affected by the Man Utd (now Man City) syndrome. You are top of the league and a big scalp for any side that plays you. We were playing at home, with 12500 home fans shouting us on, needing the points to try and secure a top four place. You were away with a small support, already with a healthy (ish) points cushion. Now tell me which team would have had the greater incentive?

this all makes perfect sense as long as you keep hold of the obvious fact that Quins actually won the game

unfortunately a few delusionals seem to be having difficulty in accepting this.

there