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Pre season flannel


By Wyddy
August 14 2014

So the dawn of a new season is peaking round the corner at us, flashing its ankles and its friend the European Champions Cup is winking suggestively... As is always the way in non World Cup years the famine has been torturous for us, but for our rugby widows/widowers they have loved having us around to busy and pester. I for one am looking forward to the bi-weekly pink ticket to get me out of house repairs and trips to the likes of Outer Bigginbotham to visit friends more interested in talking about footballers with a penchant for cannibalism! 

Rugby papers are being bought, 7’s games watched in the early hours of the morning whilst the house is still and new kits brought out by fancy new suppliers... it’s time to have a proper delve into what awaits us all in a few short weeks.

First off I’ll start with the kits, everyones had an opinion, for me personally I like the new away kit, however I can’t get out of my head the Microsoft logo (thanks CaW) on the front of the home kit! Most neutrals I have spoken to think the kits are great and applaud Adidas but can’t understand why they didn’t utilise the opportunity to put our colours on the 3 stripes at the back of the shirt. Certainly the addition of new stash is great for the club and once the website gets properly sorted they should start to see the cash benefits.

For the most surprising news of the close season, I would put money no one saw this coming... Joe Marler is our new captain! Conor having decided that Robshaw needs a break from the constant pressure of both captaining England and his club side to focus on his form in a World Cup year. Fair enough Conor, does that mean you think the extra pressure on young Joe, also in a World Cup year, also needing to focus on his form, is the best for Quins? How will Joe and Chris’ relationship progress? Is this going to be the stick with which to beat Robshaw about not being a true 7 and labouring the point of getting Steffon Armitage in to the national side? The win/win out of this decision is of course, both playing superbly well in the early season and cementing their England spots with a win over New Zealand in the Autumn. Interesting stuff that has plenty of ‘Conor-tations’. Sorry.

Naturally we start this campaign missing a couple of well loved players, Big Mo having gone to pastures new, Molenaar moving on to Welsh and stalwart Tom Guest finally biting the bullet and heading to our lovely neighbours the NotNots. Coming in on the other hand Quins have landed a couple of big names, Marland Yarde being a big coup and add on to that the signing of Asaeli Tikoirotuma the back line is bolstered. However it is in the academy lads, that have been brought in, that we will have to place a lot of trust during the pinch points of this season.

Henry Cheeseman, Joe Marchant, Kieren Treadwell, Stan South, Seb Adeniran-Olule, Charlie Piper and Josh Ibuanokpe will be needed when we lose our England lads to the Autumn Internationals and the 6 Nations. Last year saw the emergence of Kyle Sinckler, George Merrick, Joe Trayfoot, Harry Sloan and Charlie Walker, looking at those three now compared to this years influx they look almost experienced! Marchant for example is only 17 years old but performed fantastically well in the Premiership 7’s tournament.

In addition to the young bucks the second string boasts Jack Clifford, surely to make his mark this year, the departure of Guestie must free some game time up for him. You also have to look at the refusal to bring in another lock as a commendation of Merrick’s potential alongside Matthews and Robson, with the option to bring Minty to the second row another way of giving Clifford game time. The strength in depth at No8 doesn’t end there with James Chisholm, who enjoyed the success of retaining the Junior U20 Rugby World Cup in the summer and also played with aplomb in the Premiership 7’s a couple of weeks ago. I think the best he can hope for is LV action but you never know how the season will pan out. Conor really has opened the door for a lot of our younger guns in the pack by letting Big Mo, Kennedy and Guestie go. Joe Trayfoot had some outstanding cameos last season and whilst the first choice back row is predictably Wallace, Robshaw and Easter there is going to be a scrap for that bench spot and when the International squads are called.

The front row will be all the stronger for the touring experience our 3 hookers experienced and for Kyle Sinckler and Will Colliers appearance in England shirts. Expect Marler and Gray to start at loosehead and hooker, but the skills and power of Rob Buchanan and the loose play of Dave Ward should not be underestimated as proven by Wardy’s 6 or 7 man of the match awards. Kyle Sinckler and Will Collier certainly look odds on to battle it out for the tighthead berth, with Paul Doran-Jones having the same impact last season as Mike Catt on Lomu circa 1995. Collier, however, won a lot of plaudits for his plucky early season work and unfortunately picked up a knock which gave Sinckler the chance to pop up on a lot of peoples radar. Both of them lack the cynicism and box of tricks at scrum time but are capable operators in the loose but are learning quickly. Sinckler in particular making some serious yardage and surprising a lot of people with both his speed and his power, one monstrous hit on Jaques Burger standing out in the semi final. Daryl Marfo is another one of the youngsters in and around the pack who much is expected of, I was very impressed with his work off the pitch last season, always happy to spend time with young Quins fans and do the crowd work. However this season he needs to push Mark Lambert for that place on the bench and see if he can retain his scoring touch he had in the A League.

In the backs you could argue it’s gone the other way, two outstanding and first choice (at their former clubs) players brought in, in Yarde and Tiko. Where does that leave the development of Charlie Walker and Skippy Lindsay-Hague? Not to mention our two older wingers in Ugo and Tom Williams. Ugo you could argue will play less this season, whilst his commitment is never to be questioned (remember that tackle at Welford Road last season!), he’s certainly appearing in more media roles and will face a fight to see first XV action. Williams chance of first XV action are more difficult to predict, whilst not rapid he’s without doubt our best rugby brain and defensively sound with an eye for a gap, could be Conor goes horses for courses. Walker has already made noises about how he expects to be on level pegging with England International, Yarde, which is very encouraging to hear and shows he’s up for the fight. Lindsay-Hague faces a far harder challenge to break in, he’s defensively weak and his jump-step doesn’t work so well against the more difficult teams in the league, add in that he has Ross Chisholm in front of him as first replacement for Mike Brown and it could be LV for him this season.

Moving to the centres and after last seasons Last Man Standing scenarios we now appear exceptionally well stocked. The best piece of news being the return to fitness and the squad of George Lowe, so highly rated by most long term Quins fans he really brings our play together and has been sorely missed. If he can rejuvenate his partnership with a new slimline Jordan Turner-Hall (apparently a stone lighter) then we could be in for the thrills and spills of our Title winning year. Pushing them as it was in that year will be the irascible Matt Hopper, who will be hoping to spill the ball less and stick to tackles more and Tom Casson looking to avoid injury and put a run together. With Harry Sloan and Joe Marchant also nipping at their heels and Tiko and Walker also able to play centre, Hopper and Casson are playing for their contracts this season make no mistake.

In the half back slots, nothing much changed from last year. Danny Care and Nick Evans remain in pole position, but behind them the management and the fans will be looking for much improved performances. Apparently Botica played most of last season with a niggling foot complain, this could explain the problems with his kicking and the general level of his play being below his debut season. He will be looking to get back to that form, and the high 90% kicking stat he held for so much of that season, he bought a lot of affection at the Quinssa dinner with an outstanding haka, now we want to see that same passion channelled intelligently on the pitch. Grimoldby has had some additional exposure in the 7’s again this season and looks to have filled out some, will be interesting to see if he has grown out of charging into contact with the ball. Behind Danny, Karl once again will be sitting, another year older and probably looking over his shoulder more regularly with Sam Stuart (so highly regarded) beginning to put in consistency in his 7’s appearances and not looking out of place when playing XV rugby.

The Premiership 7’s showcased how effective we are at running rugby, blowing away all comers in the group stages with Walker, Marchant, OLH and Cheeseman to the fore. The friendly with Grenoble was very early in our preseason and very much at the end of theirs, however the margin and the amount of errors made was disheartening. The upcoming friendly with Pau should be more representative of the strength of the squad and a lot of the faithful will be looking forward to the first sight of Yarde and Tiko at the Stoop and the return of G-Lowe.

The other teams around us have steadily built in the close season in similar fashion, only Gloucester really pushing the boat out. Bath will again be aiming to break the Top 4 after coming so close last season and they will be that much farther along in their development. Saracens have recruited a couple of props and big Jim Hamilton to boost their already considerable power base, the return of Will Fraser from injury will be even more significant to them though, also keep an eye on Maro Itoje fresh from U20 exploits. Leicester will fly or falter on the strength of how quickly Freddie Burns adapts to life at Welford Road. Saints have made no major signings but their talented youngsters including the Wallers and Tom Stephenson will be more advanced, however they still look fragile if Myler picks up a knock. Look for London Welsh and Newcastle to fight it out at the bottom, Welsh having recruited a serious amount of new players and Newcastle trying to improve their limited performances last year by bringing in the other Tuilagi brothers.

No-one should underestimate the impact and the scale of injuries we suffered last season, with a fully fit squad and a bit more luck this season we should compete effectively from the off. The main areas of concern are firstly around the strength of the pack when faced with a couple of injuries in tandem with the Internationals and if the youngsters can step up, and secondly around the back up to our half backs. As said before we can only hope that Botica being back to fitness will show the form that earned him a 3 year contract, with Stuart and Dickson, we need to hope that Dickson pushes back the slow degradation of his ability and that Stuart starts to demonstrate the potential that had people talking him up. First and foremost we have to earn the ball up front and at the set piece to give to our explosive back line.

Our acid test arrives very early in the season... Sarries at home on the 12th September will give us an indication of how we’re fixed for the season.

Lots to be positive about, lots to admire and look forward with the new lads and youngsters being indoctrinated into Quins style and watching some beautiful and outrageous exhibitions of rugby talent and flair!

COYQ!!!!!!

Wyddy / Dave

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Pre season flannel
Discussion started by ComeAllWithin.co.uk , 14/08/2014 20:17
ComeAllWithin.co.uk
14/08/2014 20:17
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rdc
15/08/2014 08:09
Very good food for thought, thanks for this aperitif.

NicoWilson
15/08/2014 08:13
Nice piece. Thanks.

poorfour
15/08/2014 10:15
It seems to me that Quins are in many ways the unknown quantity among this season's contenders. Our first XV is stable (apart from the wings) and our approach to the game is a known quantity, but our strength in depth depends on the next generation from the academy stepping up.

There are lots of reasons to believe that they can - the Academy's track record, some strong cameos last season, the potential of players like Clifford, Stuart and Sloan, and the fact that the coaches trust them to do so.

But compared to other squads, we have more unknown faces and if injury hits at the wrong time we could be fielding some very inexperienced combinations.

The flip side of that is that we now have a better view of just how bad last season's injury crisis was, and we know that several players were carrying injuries through the season. Despite which, we came within 30 minutes and a missed drop goal of a second AP final.

The key players for me this season are Lowe, Botica, Matthews and our options at 12. Botica and I suspect Casson were carrying injuries for much of last year - if they are now over them and can play a more consistent role in the squad, it will add a lot of stability.

Much has been written about Lowe already. If he can come back fully fit then I think the backline will work much more smoothly. He's one of those players that makes things easier for the players around him.

Matthews is now one of our senior locks and at the end of last season looked to have learned how to use his bulk in the loose to complement his setpiece skills. This should be a big year for him.

If there is decent competition between JTH, Casson and Sloan for the 12 spot, I think we will be in good shape. If it comes down to a case of last man standing, then we're in trouble.

In terms of other teams, Saints and Sarries look to be in pole position, though how Sarries bounce back from last year's final disappointments remains to be seen.

It's hard to call between Bath and Glaws. On paper both now have a pretty complete squad. My guess is that Gloucester will take a while to absorb all the changes over the summer and then will finish strongly, but Bath will be serious contenders this year.

I'm going to stick my neck out and say that I think this year Leicester may finish outside the top 4. Yes, they are unlikely to have as bad an injury crisis again, but some of the old Tigers magic seems to have gone. There are far more teams who will now go to Welford Road feeling they can win.

I also think the differentiator will be in how teams play against the chasing pack. I don't think Wasps, Sale, Exeter or Irish have enough to break into the Top 4, but I think they will have enough to score wins against the top teams. The top half of the table will take points off each other, so it's likely to be the teams who are most consistent against the bottom half who will come out on top.

Wyddy
15/08/2014 10:29
Nice points Poorfour. Particularly around how tight it's going to be this season, you're bang on when it's about consistency of beating the lower placed league sides. However with only Welsh, Newcastle and arguably Sale as sides we'd expect in bottom half there are going to be some points taken off by sides like Glaws, Wasps and Chiefs.

With regards to Matthews, he is indeed one of our 2 senior locks now. His development last season was steady, but for me he really has to up his tackle count and speed to the breakdown. Robson makes a general nuisance of himself in the loose but Matthews often seems to guard more than get involved. On the whole though got high hopes for him. Merrick also has an opportunity to really galvanise himself for appearances from the bench.

Stooperman
15/08/2014 11:39
Quote:
Wyddy
Nice points Poorfour. Particularly around how tight it's going to be this season, you're bang on when it's about consistency of beating the lower placed league sides. However with only Welsh, Newcastle and arguably Sale as sides we'd expect in bottom half there are going to be some points taken off by sides like Glaws, Wasps and Chiefs.
With regards to Matthews, he is indeed one of our 2 senior locks now. His development last season was steady, but for me he really has to up his tackle count and speed to the breakdown. Robson makes a general nuisance of himself in the loose but Matthews often seems to guard more than get involved. On the whole though got high hopes for him. Merrick also has an opportunity to really galvanise himself for appearances from the bench.

Hmmm an awful thought occurs to me. We are pretty much relying on Robson to be fit for each and every match. What happens if he's injured? Then our lock pairing would be Matthews and Merrick with Twomey on the bench....and then academy lads. On the other hand there were a couple of seasons where Robson and Kohn played almost an entire season uninterrupted. We need lady luck on our side.

Wyddy
15/08/2014 11:41
Been a concern of mine for a while. However CoS does have options.

Naturally you have Merrick and Twomey to come in. Failing that you move Easter to 2nd row and bring in Jack Clifford at No8.

As a last resort you take a look at South and Treadwell from the academy.

So there are options, it's just short on specific lock experience.

poorfour
15/08/2014 12:29
Lock is probably the biggest unknown position - we will definitely bite our nails if George or Charlie picks up a long-term injury.

But compare and contrast the lock situation with tighthead last season. We began the year with PDJ and no-one else who'd had significant senior gametime. We ended it with two players having creditable games against the Barbarians and Crusaders. We start this season with arguably the best strength in depth at TH in the AP, certainly looking at it long-term.

Lack of experience does not equal lack of talent, and the only people who really know what levels of talent we have are the coaches.

p.s. Additional thought: all the clubs will be looking to target Leicester in their early season games, sans Cole, Camacho and a few others and with Burns new to the system. Be interesting to see how they respond and whether they can manage their usual end-of-season run.

Adi Nako
15/08/2014 12:37
Wyddy, I'm surprised that you see Gray as nailed on to start against Irish. Hooker is the position I'm most looking forward to watching this season, as the battle between the three of them will likely be immense. For what it's worth, I think CoS will go for Ward starting against teams with a weaker defence/lineout and Gray for when mistakes at the lineout are less tolerable. Buchanan is more of a wildcard. I think CoS would see him as the future and we might see him playing more than Ward on that basis.

Wyddy
15/08/2014 13:04
No doubt about it we are well stocked at hooker. The only reason I see Gray as 1st choice is that in previous situations where CoS has had the choice and it's a game we need to win, Gray is straight in. For me, I like Buchanan, his darts are marginally better than Wardy and he gives so much about the park. Gray to me is a safe choice, stable in set piece, great darts and can tackle.

I'd love to see a horses for courses policy to keep all 3 happy. Maybe they'll do the same for the wingers?

HonkyTonk
15/08/2014 13:16
I agree about Gray, he is my Mr Reliable and for that I would have him in first game.

poorfour
15/08/2014 13:19
I did try suggesting to Collin Osborne (who I think is resigned to losing one of the guys at the end of the season) at the pre-season dinner that they need a rotation policy for hookers like this:

Match 1 - Gray 1st half, Buchanan 2nd
Match 2 - Buchanan, Ward
Match 3 - Ward, Gray
Match 4 - Gray, Buchanan...

Or similar. That way, no-one sits out for more than a game. Which said, given our luck with hooking injuries, we can't assume they'll all stay fit.

HonkyTonk
15/08/2014 13:23
Quote:
poorfour
I did try suggesting to Collin Osborne (who I think is resigned to losing one of the guys at the end of the season) at the pre-season dinner that they need a rotation policy for hookers like this:
Match 1 - Gray 1st half, Buchanan 2nd
Match 2 - Buchanan, Ward
Match 3 - Ward, Gray
Match 4 - Gray, Buchanan...

Or similar. That way, no-one sits out for more than a game. Which said, given our luck with hooking injuries, we can't assume they'll all stay fit.

Are all 3 not signed up for two more years??. If one were to go, taking all things into account I would say Ward. As good as he has been he is the older of the 3 and I think RB is going to be very good in the future.

Adi Nako
15/08/2014 14:02
Buchanan has been one of my favourite players for a while now. As much as I prefer to Ward to Gray, I think I would be happier seeing Ward leave.

deadlyfrom5yardsout
15/08/2014 14:12
Excellent as ever Wyddy. Good work!

The game's afoot;
Follow your spirit: and upon this charge,
Cry — God for Harry! England and Saint George

rdc
15/08/2014 14:18
Quote:
Wyddy
Been a concern of mine for a while. However CoS does have options.
Naturally you have Merrick and Twomey to come in. Failing that you move Easter to 2nd row and bring in Jack Clifford at No8.

As a last resort you take a look at South and Treadwell from the academy.

So there are options, it's just short on specific lock experience.

I thought Easter looked brilliant in the 2nd row and gave us, in effect, two no8's... I feel that is a strong option for us even if Nick prefers to stick where he is

RodneyRegis
15/08/2014 23:17
I think we will rotate hooker - it's the one position Conor has rotated in the past, Brooker and Gray were practically on alternate starts before Brooker's hideous injury. All 3 have different qualities, and I wouldn't be worried about any of them starting against any opposition, but I think Gray will get used slightly more because he does what a hooker is meant to do - hits his man in the lineout over and over again.

Also agree with what has been said about lock and our TH choices last season - who'd've been happy going in with just Sinckler and Collier at the beginning of 13/14? Now they're both seen as quality options. Hopefully Merrick and Twomey are so regarded at the end of 14/15.

Hiloquin
22/08/2014 13:46
Hi all,

Really enjoyed this post, I'm new to the site and this is just what I have been hoping for! Particuarly enjoyed the 'Paul Doran-Jones having the same impact last season as Mike Catt on Lomu circa 1995' line

For me I'm excited about seeing Sinkler progress and grow. It will be interesting to see if, as a reformed hot head, Mr Marler can help Kyle to channel his aggression in the right direction, even if it takes into next season, he is still so young I think he is a fantastic prospect.

I feel we are competitive with anyone in the front and back rows and just hope that Robson has a consistant partner who can provide stability, not that Merrick and Twomey can't that, I just hope they take opportunity to make a mark.

Really interesting to here about Botica's struggles in the 2nd half of last year, I feel he has the talent to push Nev and hope he has a positive season.

Will be overjoyed if George Lowe can get back to somewhere near his best and am obviously excited about our two new boys.

All in all I think we will be in the mix again this season and would'nt be surprised to end up at HQ in May!

COYQ

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