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1c - was the rebellion the Indian mutiny?
2a. the lion of Scotland the Harp of Ireland were added?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:06:18:06:01:32 by StBleach.

Clutching at straws here.

2a The Lion and the Unicorn was used as a reference to the rivalry between Disraeli and Gladstone. Also a (book / article / essay?) by George Orwell.

2c I think the mullet here is not a suspect hair style but a star used as a heraldic device.

Other than these (possibly entirely irrelevant) observations - I give up!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:06:18:06:32:35 by Ian Spokes.

Think you are right about the Mullet Mr Spokes - " a mullet or molet is a star, usually five pointed and pierced "

1a Are we talking Vietnam, the French caused all kind of confusion there before a Japanese backed puppet state (and short lived) 'Empire of Vietnam' was formed.

so far one correct answerfrom Mr Spokes - A mullet is indeed a five pointed star - used as a heraldic device

I rather like the idea of the yanks singing about the mullet spangled banner!!

other attempts - Bleach no - ask yourselves where exactly do the Lion and the unicorn appear ?

Disraeli v Gladstone - not at all .

Vietnam - well reasoned but not so. ( I know the Japs did set up a puppet empire Manchuko in manchuria but that is not what we are thinking about. In the case of the question the colony became the dominant element.

On the subject of where the lion and unicorn appear, it depends where you are.

In Scotland, the lion and unicorn support different sides - right and left as you look compared with the official (?) UK version.

The mottos are different, too.

UK has the motto of the order of the garter (Honi soit...)

Scotland has the motto of its highest order, the thistle - a Latin version of don't mess with me, pal.


There are other differences - unicorn wears a crown on the Scottish version, UK has a motif including roses, shamrock and thistles - Scotland only thistles. The quartering on the shield is different as is the lion at the top. In Scotland the lion and unicorn bear standards of the respective patron saints.

The rhyme goes back to James I & VI. Lions representing England (since Richard I) and Unicorns Scotland. One of each to support the newly United Kingdoms was the compromise.

Whether this gets us anywhere, I am unsure.

On the tv series, I'm really groping about coming up with only the Brittas Empire and the Royle Family. I just go into fits of giggles and stop thinking.

Its the 'long haul' bit thats foxing me, can't think of a series that revolves around airlines and Petes far too young to remember The Brothers about hauliers.

Thinking out loud.
Was the British Empire born out of the invasion by William of Normandy, Harold did lose his crown but I guess they brought order rather than confusion, order which you might argue carried on through the centuries certainly the foundations of Empire. But then were the Normans (Norsemen) truly French anyway?
Yep another blind alley.

On the first - the damned colonials - part (b).

We were talking about the union of Scottish and English crowns in the other question. Is this about the union of the parliaments?

Not happy with the arrangements surrounding what the English (and Dutch) called the Glorious Revolution and even less so at the accession of George of Hanover, Scottish traders set out to make Scotland a colonial power and thus be independent of England. A sortie into Central America virtually bankrupt the country and the once proud Scots had to go cap in hand to the hated English. The price for economic salvation was the Act of Union.

You're joking. Pete has a picture of Kate O'Mara (of that vintage) pinned to the inside of his wardrobe.

Remember the Papermate ad?

Mind the blood pressure chaps



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:06:18:12:30:14 by oddshapedballs.

1 - Part (c) - Virtue in human form.

Guessing that this is a reference to Elizabeth I and thence to the colony named for her.

Virginia and more especially Williamsburg was the cradle of the American Revolution that led to independence.

1 - Part (a) - French intervention, colony and empire

Is this about France's bete-noire Jean-Bedel Bokassa?

The colony would have been French Equatorial Africa which, after independence, became the Central African Republic. Bokassa headed a coup d'etat and became president.

However, if we are to believe the folklore, his hero was Napoleon Bonaparte. The republic became an empire and he was duly crowned as emperor.

After a trail of mayhem that had Bokassa derided as the French (Idi) Amin, the French backed another coup that had him removed from power.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:06:18:13:12:48 by oddshapedballs.

Pete was more of a Jean Anderson man.

I have to say, switching my thoughts from Brittas and Royle to Kate O'Mara has done nothing to help my powers of concentration/deduction.

It writes upside down - like anyone was looking at the pen.

I can vaguely remember in the mists of time Kate o'Mara in a Hammer film with Ingrid Pitt and Madeline Smith. You couldn't watch it when the Vicar was round for tea.

Why can't Pete ask questions about that, every male over 40 would know the answers.

look what happens when i leave you all to it - Kate Omara - yes i remember her - those eyes !!!

now then

Lion and Unicorn - yes they are either side of the royal arms - they are known in heraldry as supporter - now think on what the question asks you.

Virginia - is correct and either the war of independence or the civil war would do with Virginia playing a major role in both.

the first colonial question has you wandering through time and all over the globe it seems but to no avail - look back carefully at what said about earlier attempts at this one.

on the disaster that led to a union - OSB you are so nearly there .

and finally Kate O Mara - well that comely wench is certainly in the right genre.re read the question carefully

Is 1a something about beheading? I remember at school that Jack and Jill (Jack breaking his crown) is actually about someone having their head chopped off - sadly I can't remember quite who, so is the 'French intervention' a guillotine?

Quote:

Pete says...
"Lion and Unicorn - yes they are either side of the royal arms - they are known in heraldry as supporter - now think on what the question asks you."

As this appears to be Royal question, are weddings involved? I recall a Royal groom does not have a "best-man", rather a "supporter".

Don't know if this helps, just throwing another idea in...

In the days when vampires forsook the jugular vein for the internal thoracic artery. Thank-you, Hammer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:06:18:16:55:26 by oddshapedballs.

Quote:

2 (a)
The children's rhyme tells us about " The Lion and the Unicorn fighting for the crown " Who / what else has been so involved over the years. ( there are two answers )

Since the Tudors gave way to the Stuarts, I'm not sure that there have been other supporters. Working backwards through the Tudors, there were dragons (sorry, was a dragon). Supporters varied almost by king and during the Plantagenet falling out, (aka The Wars of the Roses), so I will go with the last time king fought king for the crown and offer a white boar (Richard III's supporter) and a dragon (Henry Tudor).

I've been to the Battle of Bosworth Visitor Centre, you know.

Quote:

1 (b)
Where did a last gesture at economic independence lead to disaster and some say to union sooner rather than later.

If I am not quite there, I will assume you want me to be more specific about where the Scots set up their colony. I believe that there were two colonies - one in the Carolinas and one in what is now Panama but they called New Caledonia.

" The Brothers "... I loved that..

You can understand why..

OSb - nearly there on two questions now

supporters - Ill put you out of your misery - In Tudor Times - and you've all seen it in the background to all those Elizabethan & Henrican dramas - A red dragon.

But but there is one other little known creature that was also used -

and the boar was a badge - not a supporter on the coat of arms. a badge was worn by the head geezers followers -

what we are looking for was actually a badge that was occasionally elevated to be used as a supporter .

Colonial failure - OSB you are in the right place for more or less the right reasons but it wasnt called New Caladonia ( that is a group of islands in the pacific )

2b is, I would suggest, the Scottish expedition to Darien (Panama) in 1698.

Lots of money was sunk into this in the hope of setting up a trading colony - which failed miserably and left the Scottish economy in a sorry state.

Or Corby!

Mary had a pomegranate (Aragonese heritage) and, I believe, a greyhound was used at times but I can only find passing references.

My book on heraldry asserts that Richard III had coats of arms with a white boar supporting - no other evidence. Similar claims were made for a black bull (Henry V) and a white hart (Richard II).

Thanks, Sarge. Another way in...

New Caledonia may be in the Pacific now (or at various stages in the more recent past) but at the end of the 17th century...

Quote:

2 (b)
Derived from the long haul - what would a TV series tell you about the organisation of great state occasions. ( you must tell all and explain the links )

The bits...

Derived from the long haul...

...what would a TV series tell you about the organisation of great state occasions?

You must tell all and explain the links

OP said: "Kate O Mara - well that comely wench is certainly in the right genre. Re-read the question carefully"

Doing as I'm told.

Great state occasions could include Coronations and a long-running tv series in the continuing drama category is, famously, Coronation Street.

Having not watched it since Elsie Tanner was a sex goddess, I have run out of expertise in that direction.

Pete was more of a Minnie Caldwell man.

But if its aristos we are looking for Audrey Roberts widow of Alf is in real life 'Honourable Susan Nichols' daughter of Lord Someoneoranother.

Lion & Unicorn - OSB having got the dragon you have passed over the other correct answer in your latest heraldic ramble. Supporters were not properly used until the Tudors.

SARGE - you is correct on Darien - so much money was lost by the Scottish merchant class that they desperately supported the act of union .

State occasions - Its funny how folk move in the right direction and then veer off into all sorts of by ways - coranation street I ask you ?

My previous comments suggested that Kate Omara was in the right genre - Corry is a soap - the genre in question was yet another attempt to provide a hit drama series on Saturday or Sunday nights - the one i am thinking of is described in the question as " derived from the long haul " Think about it ??

Quote:

1 (a)
How did a French intervention lead to a lost crown whereby in the consequent confusion the colony became the empire?

Old Pete said, "The first colonial question has you wandering through time and all over the globe it seems but to no avail - look back carefully at what said about earlier attempts at this one."

So...

Quote:

In response to Chris's suggestion about a Japanese puppet empire in Vietnam
Vietnam - well reasoned but not so. ( I know the Japs did set up a puppet empire Manchuko in manchuria but that is not what we are thinking about.) In the case of the question the colony became the dominant element.

Given the way the French, from Charlemagne onwards, have had a habit of rampaging intervention all across the known world it is a trifle difficult to pin down both history and geography.

Let's start at home.

The revolution at the end of the 18th century overturned a monarchy of 1000 years when Louis XVI was guillotined. The period of the first republic could easily be described as a confusion as the rights and privileges of the wealthy few were distributed across the many - liberté, égalité et fraternité, mes freres.

There is a thought nagging at me that during this time "colony" was a word used for strands or strata of government in France. I cannot be more specific because I really don't know.

The first republic gave way to the first empire under Napoleon Bonaparte (aka Napoleon I)

I take offence at the very thought that I might not be thinking - and very hard - thank you.

Continuing dramas are continuing dramas. Hour-long formats broadcast at weekends are differentiated from mid-week 30-minute varieties only by the snob value attached to them. Kate herself has appeared in both sorts.

The producers of Corry are definitely there for the long haul! 40 years duration says so. Ya-boo-sucks.

Mostly this is a difference between already knowing the answer and trying to get there from the trail (very partial, I might add) left.

Deduction based on 'long haul' and 'weekend broadcasts' I will offer The Onedin Line. That and being able to hum along to the theme tune is the sum total of my knowledge.

It went on for ever; I avoided it. In those days my weekend evenings were only rarely spent at home and it pre-dated VCRs.

OSb - Onedin line is - shall i say too memorable - and I do know that you can think hard - ive heard you doing it.

possitively my last clue on the tv series connection is that the producers of the one i have in mind previously produced the " long haul " reference. The name of the series I have in mind leads on to the complete answer to the question.

Also apologies over New Caladonia - i was momemtarily confused withthe New Hebrides - which are in the pacific .

Question one (a) - the answer refers to events that not even vaguely contemporary - the place / country in question still exists to this day though.

and OSB again - you have already mentioned the second supporter

All will be revealed - if not answered by then - later tonight.

Greyhound

Not contemporary with:

- Charlemagne?
- The French Revolution?
- Napoleon Bonaparte?
- The French in Indo-China?
- The French in Africa?

Only 1500 years to play with if we eliminate them a decade at a time we could have fun until...goodness knows.

150,000,000 square kilometres and the search is being carried out with a pin but only when wearing a blindfold.

Long Haul - Marathon?

Long Distance? Long Distance Runner? Airline - not the EasyJet thing but an old series with Roy Marsden in it. I only remember it because my cousin was in it, too.

Great State Occasion - we haven't been put off coronation but steered away from Coronation Street. Others: Parliament, Weddings, entertaining heads of state,

Weekend prime time tv dramas that could link in with any of these.

Is 1a real? Like, it's not from some dodgy film about people on the moon in the future is it? Jean Luc Picard sounds a bit French, and the Klingons had (will have?) an empire.

Is it time for the rugby to start again yet?

Could the Long Haul refer to the fact that its been running for ages - The Sky At Night?

the efinitive missing answers

q 1 (a ) BRAZIL - wasa colony of Portugal - but folloewing the French invasion of Portugul in 1808 the ruklinfg house of Braganza got in a bit of tis was - to cut a long story short by 1821 a bloke in Brazil decalared himself Emporor Pedro ! - and Portugul still being in a bit of a messs was for a while ruled by him and his mates from Brazil.

Q 2 b - the Tv programme is Howards Way - which was produced by the sam team that gave you the Brothers - the great state occasions re organised by thge Duke of Norlfolk who is eal marshal of england - and his family name is HOWARD - so they are done HOWARDS way.


Honours go to Ian Spokes for his mullett ? OSB for persistence and a greyhound ; Sarge for Darien


More from ST M on MOnday and myself later in the week.

To raise the level to the delights of Ms O'Mara once again - she was in both The Brothers and Howards Way. I feel the Quizmaster could have been a little more helpful in promoting Ms O'Mara into the position she deserved in this particular conundrum instead of trying to keep her to himself.

Jools one must grab what one can

and i did point out that once brought forward that people probing in the right genre !!

next weeks questions will be a Kate Omara free zone although i expect some wag will insist on dragging hapless actresses into the reckoning.