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News: Thoughts from the Chron 29th April 2010
By Chris Gleadell
April 30 2010
Well, all good things must come to an end. Alas the home record went on Saturday against a much improved Saracens side but then given the closeness of the defeat I think in the long run that loss may not be such a bad thing.

Thoughts From The Chron

29th April 2020

 

Heresy I know but much as we were proud of the long standing home run it might well be a case of a lost battle winning the war when the return between the two clubs is played out in three weeks time.

Had we edged it on Saturday it may well have been a case of subconsciously resting on laurels with that ‘we never lose at Fortress Franklins' mentality would still remaining. Indeed we supporters would still be shouting about it from the rooftops about a regular Guinness Premiership season completed with the Saints undefeated at home. However come the playoffs it may have proved our undoing next time round.

In a strange twist of fate I think the result if anything actually gives us an edge for that return game whether it be back at the Gardens, which is still the most probable outcome, or at Vicarage Road. Yes Sarries might be thinking ‘been there done that we can do it again', but a narrow win for Saints would have them coming back in some respects feeling they were robbed because no doubt about it they were the best side on Saturday. Had the result gone against the Watford club I am sure in the run up to the semi finals those that have been most vocal in the Sarries camp over this season would be using that fact to full effect claiming they were out for rightful revenge in an attempt to plant seeds of doubt in Saints minds.

Now however it is Saints that are out for that revenge. Slim though the margin of defeat was it will still be a massive psychological kick up the backside for the whole club. The boys will certainly be smarting at the loss and should be chomping at the bit to get their teeth back into Saracens on the 16th of May. Much as a home record does not win silverware alone it was still something to be proud of and something Saracens took away from us so what better way to put the record right than by vanquishing last weekends victors in the return? We owe them one.

The team will also know it is in their own hands as by their own admission they did not play up to their usual standards last weekend. As I said earlier there was no doubting Sarries were the best side on Saturday but I also doubt that the Saints will be so off the pace again this season.  Whilst it would be easy to follow the sheep and lay the door at one missed kick for all our ills perhaps in fairness we should delve a bit deeper. It was not the only wayward kick of the day but then we cannot just blame the respective boots of our fly halves when we saw our pack lose one against the head in front of our own posts to concede a try. Perhaps though we lost most on the restarts where we failed to gain anything near parity all afternoon be it on our or the oppositions kick.  This not only cut our supply of regular good ball but gave Saracens possession on umpteenth occasions to cause further damage.

Given that an outsider might think there is plenty to work on for the Saints but I do really think it was just a culmination of things and an off day. Yes we were out of sorts and not our usual selves in some respects but then the lads still got within a point of in my mind the best side that has visited the Gardens this season. Some of the team did look a little jaded and perhaps events of the last few weeks have caught up with a few and the two week break before the last regular game down at London Irish has perhaps come at the right time. So by the time of the visit to Reading to take on the Exiles I expect the squad to be back in fine fettle to come out all guns blazing ready to take on the world and eight days later watch out Sarries our boys have you in their sites with a big score to settle. Beware!

 

WORCESTER

Whilst we are tussling for position at the top end of the table spare a thought for old friends from Worcester who were relegated in their defeat at Leeds on Sunday. The Warriors have been plying their trade in the top division for a few seasons now are were almost part of the furniture but find themselves grinding it out in the Championship next season. They will probably be looking at Saints and to a lesser degree Quins as role models for an immediate return and to build on that going forward but I have a feeling it may need a new broom sweeping throughout the club for any long term change.

I look at ‘Wuss' and see a lot of parallels with Saints. From the passionate Chairman giving something back to the town to the growing loyal through thick and thin support to the ever improving facilities at Sixways, in some ways we are a lot alike.  On the downside however I also see a couple of Saints pre-Mallinder era similarities that contributed to our downfall too. From the coaching merry-go-round that saw no long term improvement to a raft of superstar names underpinned by players who perhaps balanced the salary cap but when push came to shove were not consistent Premiership performers, again the same traits.

In Chris Latham they have a player who if he was in say the Saints, Bath, Wasps or Tigers side would be the Premierships player of the season. At Worcester he is no less that player but has no one around him on his wavelength however hard he tries to pull those around him up by their bootstraps. Last season in our game at Sixways he was head and shoulders above any other back on the pitch, Warrior or Saint, but all his endeavour came to nothing.

It is a shame he is heading back home to Australia as he strikes me as the kind of guy with a wealth of knowledge and in experience in the game, and who has been forthright in the past about Worcester's failings, who could mould them into a force for the future. If the status quo remains then, although I am sure we'll see them back, they will always be a lower table club either treading water or flirting with relegation.

I wish them well, they were a breath of fresh air when they arrived and will be again. Here's hoping however that chairman Cecil Duckworth splashes out on that new broom.

 

EUROPE

We may have the Bank Holiday weekend off but it is all eyes to Europe again to a few clubs and provinces fighting it out for rugby's main prize outside of the international scene. Both semi finals are Franco/Irish affairs with first up on Saturday Toulouse taking on Leinster in ‘La Ville Rose'. Leinster sneaked past Clermont in the quarter finals but I cannot see any other result than a Toulouse win even though they might have to play fifteen rather than their usual ten minutes of sublime rugby. On Sunday Munster visit one of the venues of Saints greatest triumphs the Aoneta Stadium in San Sebastian to take on Biarritz. BOPB are not having the best of seasons and finished outside the top six in France's Top 14 but are, as always, an unpredictable proposition. Munster are well Munster and as they showed in the quarters against us can be discounted at your peril as there is still plenty of life in the old dog yet despite some of us predicting their imminent demise. I'd take Munster to grind this one out too to set up a final in Paris with Toulouse at the end of May. A veritable clash of THE European giants if there ever was one and a truly fitting occasion to mark the 15th year of the competition. It may be with a hint of what might have been but I'm looking forward to watching these two games this weekend but even more our involvement back in the competition next October. It cannot come soon enough.

 

 

 

 

 

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News: Thoughts from the Chron 29th April 2010
Posted by: ComeOnYouSaints.com (IP Logged)
Date: 29/04/2010 23:23

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Re: News: Thoughts from the Chron 29th April 2010
Posted by: St.Rich Joe, Niamh and Sam's Dad (IP Logged)
Date: 30/04/2010 05:41

Good work and a good read as ever Chris but I have to disagree on one point and yes it'll kick things off again but it's how I feel:

Quote:
Chris
Whilst it would be easy to follow the sheep and lay the door at one missed kick for all our ills perhaps in fairness we should delve a bit deeper.

What would the result have been had Shane Geraghty actually made the relatively easy kick to win this match? Why is it that pointing out this very obvious fact is seen as 'following the sheep?'

Like you I despise the detractors and weekend experts surrounding us in C block that moan and groan about players and tactics which they display astounding levels of ignorance towards. You are right that as a collective we always seem to have a scapegoat and these have always been good players such as Gregor Townsend or John Leslie. You are also right that we are at risk of turning Shane Geraghty into another of these scapegoats. This feels wrong but why is not ok to say: "in a close match the Saints had their chance to win and the kicker blew it."

The Saints were outplayed, they were put under enormous pressure, lots of errors were made by lots of players but when your kicker has the chance to win, with a kick that most players of his exceptional ability should make 9.9 times out of 10. They need to make it. It's the reason the Lions won in 1997, the Saints in 2000 and the reason that Scotland didn't make the 1991 World Cup Final.

The weird thing is I think this could be the making of Shane Geraghty. In 5 years time we will probably have forgotten all about this match but will have a trophy cabinet bursting at the seams built on victories made by his boot.

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Re: News: Thoughts from the Chron 29th April 2010
Posted by: ChrisG (IP Logged)
Date: 30/04/2010 06:27

The point was Rich that that kick alone did not lose us the game yet many jump on one players back claiming its all his fault when you could point to a pile of other failings on the day. Had Mylers kick gone over, had our pack not been pushed off the ball under the own posts Geraghty's kick would have been irrelevant, had we won some decent restart ball instead of gifting it to Sarries Geraghty's kick might well have been irrelevant too. we lost for a myriad of reasons but the sheep lay all the blame on one players shoulders and we well know that roles reversed and it was Smyler much less would have been said about it but then with Smyler that try would never have been scored.

Re: News: Thoughts from the Chron 29th April 2010
Posted by: St.Rich Joe, Niamh and Sam's Dad (IP Logged)
Date: 30/04/2010 07:55

Would all that have been irrelevant though mate? It would have been a different game but I have a feeling that which ever side was chasing, one of them would have had a last gasp chance to win the match. The game wasn't lost when Shane missed the kick but it turn out to be Saints last chance to score.

On the Myler point - I'd feel the same.

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Re: News: Thoughts from the Chron 29th April 2010
Posted by: Stockers (IP Logged)
Date: 30/04/2010 08:58

Good thoughtful stuff Chris.

I'm more inclined to your view about Shane as opposed to Rich's and our TEAM didn't do enough to win against Sarries so our TEAM takes the blame for losing the match, not the one man who put us in with a chance of stealing a victory in the first place.

For me, it is our restarts which are really poor at the moment and not just in the last game. We were so good at this earlier in the season. Why has it all gone wrong?

Re: News: Thoughts from the Chron 29th April 2010
Posted by: ChrisG (IP Logged)
Date: 30/04/2010 09:28

Think we might be talking at cross purposes Rich, i'm not excusing the miss in any way at all, it was in all effects a 'sitter'. Rather i'm having a very large dig at those who round on a player mostly because others do yet cannot see some glaringly bad traits in others.

Re: News: Thoughts from the Chron 29th April 2010
Posted by: Howlin (IP Logged)
Date: 30/04/2010 10:15

I agree Chris. Said as much to a mate staright after no side. "It's a shame but all the headlines will be about Geraghty's kick, but there are many other reasons why we lost the match".

Of course it's right to mention it Rich. I don't think anyone believes it should be swept under the carpet, just kept in perspective. As Chris states and I agree, I don't think the try would have been scored if Geraghty hadn't come on so he didn't lose Saints the game. A lot of people would have you believe that he did and shouldn't play for Saints.

He's a young developing player and could become something very special imo. Getting on his back , booing, shouting abuse etc. won't help. But yes, he really should have nailed that kick winking smiley

Saint til I die

Re: News: Thoughts from the Chron 29th April 2010
Posted by: Bob Stainsby (IP Logged)
Date: 30/04/2010 11:42

Good read Chris. On the kick yep he should have got it but as Howlin says if he hadn't come on would the try have been scored? probables not. Resarts I said to connect on Sat that we couldn't win any and we seemed to kick too long te case was also not up to standard or just not done. The game was a collective loss and if I ever hear any ' Saints supporter' boo ANY player I shall make my opinion known whinge in te bar afterwards, moan on here maybe but giving your own teammembers the bird? no way Ho zay!!!

Re: News: Thoughts from the Chron 29th April 2010
Posted by: St.Rich Joe, Niamh and Sam's Dad (IP Logged)
Date: 30/04/2010 13:44

Fair enough. Nice to have a proper debate about it though isn't it?

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Re: News: Thoughts from the Chron 29th April 2010
Posted by: SaintsDuncan (IP Logged)
Date: 30/04/2010 13:52

I beleive Terry Pratchett sums it up quite nicely in his book Nation. Goes something like:

There is no "should", there is "does" (or in this case "did"), or "does not" (again "did not").

This time it was "does not"...next time? Well who knows...

Re: News: Thoughts from the Chron 29th April 2010
Posted by: St.Rich Joe, Niamh and Sam's Dad (IP Logged)
Date: 30/04/2010 13:56

Never going to argue with that Duncan. Pratchett is so right, so much of the time.

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Re: News: Thoughts from the Chron 29th April 2010
Posted by: Eif Jones (IP Logged)
Date: 01/05/2010 01:22

Cardiff Blues would already be in the Magners play-offs but Ben Blair, a 10-20% better kicker than Geraghty, missed a couple of last minute elatively easy winning kicks at the start of the season. Happens to the best. And it was Foden who was instrumental in getting that last try, not Geraghty, without Foden no try.

More debatable is the opening paragraph 'given the closeness of the defeat I think in the long run that loss may not be such a bad thing'. If it means signing a better class of 9,10,12 and 13 then yes, otherwise not convinced. The present lot have done well but that's it I'm afraid.

Re: News: Thoughts from the Chron 29th April 2010
Posted by: ClaireJ (IP Logged)
Date: 01/05/2010 07:20

Eif,

The last try was scored as a result of continued Saints pressure through a series of phases. Both Dickson and Geraghty injected some pace into the backline - the move went first to your left, then right and then left again.

Foden didn't move the Sarries defence left and right on his own - the team did with the half backs working the space well.

Yes Foden had to still work hard to make the try happen but the Sarries defence was stretched by the momentum of the move.

It's a team game Eif...

And wasn't it nice of them to score a try towards the north end of the ground in the second half, right in front of you(Sm14)

ClaireJ
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Re: News: Thoughts from the Chron 29th April 2010
Posted by: ChrisG (IP Logged)
Date: 01/05/2010 09:42

Eif its a Bank Holiday weekend, get back to pulling the legs off spiders...

Re: News: Thoughts from the Chron 29th April 2010
Posted by: Howlin (IP Logged)
Date: 01/05/2010 10:08

Show some respect Chris. He's so old he can remember when Wales were good.

Saint til I die

Re: News: Thoughts from the Chron 29th April 2010
Posted by: St Francis (IP Logged)
Date: 01/05/2010 16:49

For what?

Re: News: Thoughts from the Chron 29th April 2010
Posted by: Howlin (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2010 23:10

I don't know Nobby I'm too young (Sm16)

Saint til I die

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