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NEWS: European Cup:Northampton Saints v Saracens Game Thread


Going for 3 in a row!

By Happywifehappylife
October 9 2017

Mobbs has already started a thread on Sarries so we thought (with his permission) that we'd merge it into a NEWS one to discuss all things this Sunday

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Marching On
NEWS: European Cup:Northampton Saints v Saracens Game Thread
Marching On (IP Logged)
09/10/2017 18:51
What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
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tboullem
Saracens....................
Mobbs (IP Logged)
09/10/2017 09:22
Well they worry me ! So organised and intense in all they do, knowing when to build and when to pull the trigger. Their five metre line out to rumble George over was so so clinical. Plenty to study this week chaps before next sundays tea-time extravaganza - crumpet anyone ?

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Saracens....................
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
09/10/2017 10:06
In all honesty I switch off a bit during European Cup. If you watch any of the Top 14, weíve no likely chance of winning it against those squads. Montpellier have Pieenar and Cruden at half back, Nadolo on the wing, Jesse Mogg 15. Yeah we can win the odd game but over a campaign im afraid money talks. Itís not negative just more interested in the Prem tbh.... thatís until we top the group :-).

Saracens are so well drilled, but we can beat anyone at home. Nothing to lose.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017:10:09:10:07:03 by HungryLikeTheWolf.

 
tedge
Re: Saracens....................
tedge (IP Logged)
09/10/2017 10:20
Saracens don't give the opposition many chances so it's essential to take the ones you do get. We have beaten them in the past - you have to constantly press them and capitalise on the few mistakes they make. Agree that our prospects in Europe are not good but because it's Saracens a marker for the league matches against them would be a good thing.

 
andysaint
Re: Saracens....................
andysaint (IP Logged)
09/10/2017 10:38
The first three games in Europe are Sarries at home Clermont away and Ospreys at home. Win our home games and whilst we are not favourites to get past the group stage, we can still have some fun with it.

 
fair_weather_fan
Re: Saracens....................
fair_weather_fan (IP Logged)
09/10/2017 10:52
Quote:
andysaint
The first three games in Europe are Sarries at home Clermont away and Ospreys at home. Win our home games and whilst we are not favourites to get past the group stage, we can still have some fun with it.

Fun would be going to Saracens having already qualified

 
Duckonstilts
Re: Saracens....................
Duckonstilts (IP Logged)
09/10/2017 11:40
Saracens are beatable. We have done it before and we will do it again. Well drilled is exactly what they are. They move up fast and hard and in perfect synchronization. If you want to win you have to disrupt their game. Hit them harder, fight harder, be more controlling. Keep them in their own half and dont give them time to run back at you. So kick to touch and chase hard to even if they do get the ball they have to kick it out of there own 22.

They are the best team in Europe ATM. You can not argue with that. But they are not the All Blacks. They rely heavily on a couple of guys breaking the gain line over and over again. They are very good.

I think if we can play like we know we can we can win. But we need Myler at 10. Control is the only way we will get a win. If we try and be loose and attacking we will loose by 20+ points.

 
fleetg
Re: Saracens....................
fleetg (IP Logged)
09/10/2017 11:48
I agree Myler at 10 with Luther and Rob Horne outside (Piers on the bench). If Harry is played at 10 or 12 Barritt and his friends will be licking their lips.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Saracens....................
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
09/10/2017 12:28
Iím not convinced Myler-Burrell is a potent axis. Neither are attacking footballers, Stephen is pragmatic etc. Luther runs hard... but neither are ball players. Iím not sure a formulaic gameplan works against the ultimate formulaic side in Saracens.

Piers
Burrell
Horne


And bleeding well have a go.

 
Lamont4Saints
Re: Saracens....................
Lamont4Saints (IP Logged)
09/10/2017 15:14
Yeah letís not play the super rugby 10 at 10, letís play Myler instead.

Piers is head and shoulders above Myler, he should be starting 10 every game.

 
Dick Dastardly
Re: Saracens....................
Thrupp artist (IP Logged)
09/10/2017 15:32
Agree it must be Burrell and Horne for this game - but the question is who plays 10 when spoilt for choice. We have beaten Saracens more than once with the Burrell/Myler combo and we all know the reliability of Stephen's game. Harry has of course been the subject of criticism in the 10 role but he has played a very important part in the 4 straight wins. Piers is the future but has he played enough in this team to start this game at 10? Whoever is picked I hope there will be no cries of nepotism (if applicable) and that we can all get behind the team selected and cheer them to victory.

There is another alternative - Horne has played a lot on the wing and moving him there would create various possible midfield combinations (I don't favour this option but it could be interesting to see how it works during a game)

 
Deesaint
Re: Saracens....................
Deesaint (IP Logged)
09/10/2017 15:46
I always thought Myler was at his best when he played behind a dominant pack. As the dominance of our pack slipped Myler compensated by playing deeper. This resulted in kicking for territory or a shuffled pass to 12.

I just worry that unless he has changed his approach both options will see us loose ground and possession to Saracens. I cant see that ending well on Sunday.

I would think the best way to beat them is too keep the ball and make possession work. We need some big runners hitting the line - Api always makes yards, Brookes could be destructive if he could take the ball at pace, Ribbans is difficult to stop.
When they have the ball we need to show real aggression and dog in defence. Some brutal stuff wouldn't go amiss. Knock them backwards and run over them.

Need to be on top of our game to win this one.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Saracens....................
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
09/10/2017 16:33
Quote:
Thrupp artist
Agree it must be Burrell and Horne for this game - but the question is who plays 10 when spoilt for choice. We have beaten Saracens more than once with the Burrell/Myler combo and we all know the reliability of Stephen's game. Harry has of course been the subject of criticism in the 10 role but he has played a very important part in the 4 straight wins. Piers is the future but has he played enough in this team to start this game at 10? Whoever is picked I hope there will be no cries of nepotism (if applicable) and that we can all get behind the team selected and cheer them to victory.
There is another alternative - Horne has played a lot on the wing and moving him there would create various possible midfield combinations (I don't favour this option but it could be interesting to see how it works during a game)


Have we not noticed a correlation between Horne playing centre and us winning matches? Heís truly world class, he needs to be in the midfield making breaks and organising our defence. Not sure I would advocate dropping North or Collins who are playing very well indeed.....

There is nothing that Myler can do that Francis canít apart from having a more reliable kick at goal. There is plenty that Francis can do that Myler canít. If we spend this season not playing Piers 10, I donít think we get top 4.


It took Horne zero Ďgametimeí to be up to speed. It would take Francis zero game time at 10 vs other options. Theyíre top level super rugby backs, different gear to the Prem. Just get him in there no faffing about. They do hundreds so of reps in training - what else are they doing !! Trust me if they look at the team sheets and see Francis at 10 theyíre be more worried.

 
tboullem
Re: Saracens....................
Mobbs (IP Logged)
09/10/2017 16:36
Whilst I hope that Francis proves to be a great player for Saints, I do wonder exactly what it is that people have seen to claim him to be the new Messiah ?

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: Saracens....................
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
09/10/2017 17:19
Sky Sports on Saturday mornings Mobbs.....

 
tedge
Re: Saracens....................
tedge (IP Logged)
09/10/2017 17:33
Quote:
Mobbs
Whilst I hope that Francis proves to be a great player for Saints, I do wonder exactly what it is that people have seen to claim him to be the new Messiah ?

"new Messiah" is stretching a point Mobbs but he was a regular first choice for Auckland Blues at 10 or 12 and Eddie Jones selected him for England the moment he announced he was coming back to his home country, so he has a pedigree which suggests he will make his presence felt for Saints once he settles.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017:10:09:17:38:16 by tedge.

 
ch saint
Re: NEWS: European Cup:Northampton Saints v Saracens Game Thread
ch saint (IP Logged)
09/10/2017 19:47
Myler/Burrel didn't work for 3 years it will not work on Sunday. Jim didn't recruit Francis and Horne to sit on the bench. I believe he expected Francis to start 10, with Burrel at 12, Horne 13, and Harry 15 or substitute for 15.
Myler as sub if we are winning.

 
Eif Jones
Re: NEWS: European Cup:Northampton Saints v Saracens Game Thread
Eif Jones (IP Logged)
10/10/2017 02:59
Why the infatuation for Burrell?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: NEWS: European Cup:Northampton Saints v Saracens Game Thread
Chris Hoddle (IP Logged)
10/10/2017 08:20
On Saturday Tom was subbed it was probably his worst game of the season.
Also Francis was subbed and myler played 10 with Harry moving to centre. I wonder if he had a knock or was seen by Jim that he wouldnít deliver the win.
I also wondered why Francis didnít take the kicks?

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tboullem
Re: NEWS: European Cup:Northampton Saints v Saracens Game Thread
Mobbs (IP Logged)
10/10/2017 09:11
Tedge

As I said earlier, I hope that Francis proves to be the player that we all hope he will be in green, black and gold. The evidence for me will be what he does for Saints not what he may have done in his previous life. Next season will be very interesting to see who claims the number ten shirt.

Wolf

I see enough rugby as it is, better things to do on a saturday morning !

 
fair_weather_fan
Re: NEWS: European Cup:Northampton Saints v Saracens Game Thread
fair_weather_fan (IP Logged)
10/10/2017 09:47
Sundays selection needs to look forwards not backwards. See Myler as a closer from now on.

Best selection will see Francis at 10 going forward

 
John Rickerd
Re: NEWS: European Cup:Northampton Saints v Saracens Game Thread
John Rickerd (IP Logged)
10/10/2017 09:59
Quote:
Eif Jones
Why the infatuation for Burrell?

You have not been watching him this season then?, otherwise you must have admired that pass of the left hand to set up the Gibson try.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: NEWS: European Cup:Northampton Saints v Saracens Game Thread
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
10/10/2017 10:07
Quote:
Mobbs
Tedge
As I said earlier, I hope that Francis proves to be the player that we all hope he will be in green, black and gold. The evidence for me will be what he does for Saints not what he may have done in his previous life. Next season will be very interesting to see who claims the number ten shirt.

Wolf

I see enough rugby as it is, better things to do on a saturday morning !


Thatís fine, you asked why I think heís excellent and I explained Iíve watched him play maybe 10-15 full games on TV.


He will play 12 next year as he did at Blues originally with Biggar 10 a la Ford and Farrell. We will play with huge width which works given our potency out wide. Plenty of rotation and horses for courses selections of course but Biggar, Francis, Horne will be the gun midfield.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017:10:10:10:09:44 by HungryLikeTheWolf.

 
charlieemeriau
Re: NEWS: European Cup:Northampton Saints v Saracens Game Thread
charlieemeriau (IP Logged)
10/10/2017 11:44
I am more worried about how we are going to get on the front foot and get our forward to consistently move forward around the ruck area, if Eadie had been fit I would have liked to see a back line of Eadie, harrison and Lawes with patterson and ribbans at locks... But to be fair Gibson was probably our best player last week...

I hope our scrum holds up, I am still not convinced about KB.

 
tboullem
Re: NEWS: European Cup:Northampton Saints v Saracens Game Thread
Mobbs (IP Logged)
10/10/2017 11:59
This is where I get confused - easily done I know !

Are we going to play Francis and/or Myler at 10 with Harry as back-up or are we going to use Francis at centre with Smyler and/or Harry at centre. Come next season is it going to be Biggar at 10 with Francis in the centre until such time as Dan goes off to Wales when we mix and match at 10. Does Smyler grab a two year contract elsewhere and return a la Dowson as a coach or maybe stay one more year behind Biggar and Francis in the pecking order ?Round like circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel etc

 
Christoff
Re: NEWS: European Cup:Northampton Saints v Saracens Game Thread
smitferbrainz (IP Logged)
10/10/2017 13:08
Grayson has to figure in the 10 debate when chatting about next season surely.

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: NEWS: European Cup:Northampton Saints v Saracens Game Thread
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
10/10/2017 14:29
Quote:
Mobbs
This is where I get confused - easily done I know !
Are we going to play Francis and/or Myler at 10 with Harry as back-up or are we going to use Francis at centre with Smyler and/or Harry at centre. Come next season is it going to be Biggar at 10 with Francis in the centre until such time as Dan goes off to Wales when we mix and match at 10. Does Smyler grab a two year contract elsewhere and return a la Dowson as a coach or maybe stay one more year behind Biggar and Francis in the pecking order ?Round like circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel etc


Biggar, francis as backup and James Grayson and Harry.... thats plenty.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: NEWS: European Cup:Northampton Saints v Saracens Game Thread
Chris Hoddle (IP Logged)
10/10/2017 14:46
Plenty as long as Biggar Francis and Harry don't all get called up at the same time (remembering we are talking of a year away)

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nottsaint
Re: NEWS: European Cup:Northampton Saints v Saracens Game Thread
nottsaint (IP Logged)
11/10/2017 10:55
IMHO The game plan for Sarries has to be something along the lines of;
1) Play in the right areas of the field, there is no point box kicking it 15yrds from within our 22. We need good tactical kicking. Play them deep, but don't forget to exploit the dink over the top to keep them honest.
2) Chase and Attack them with ferocity and aggression, particularly the breakdown, the pack has to work really hard here, I would be telling them, I will make changes early on in the 2nd, so work really hard whilst your on...
We have seen before when sarries have got frustrated by us with this, and whilst they haven't gone to pot, they have started to give away penalties.
3) Kick the chances, early on, hopefully there isn't much wind, and we have a good day from the tee.

For me, I think this leads to having Myler as the starting 10.
We need the control, and we need to squeeze, as I don't think its going to be possible to have an open running game as sarries are too organised.

maybe Piers can do all this just as well or better than Myler, but I know that Myler can do this well. but it starts with the pack (IMHO)

 
Saint Stokey
Re: NEWS: European Cup:Northampton Saints v Saracens Game Thread
Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
11/10/2017 17:11
my thoughts are different. We have played our best rugby this year when our backs have been playing close to the gain line, attackers receiving the ball at pace, drawing their man then passing into space.

This will require our forwards to be on every single breakdown and quickly, then groom or reinach to get quick ball.

So for me, Francis is the man for the moment. I'd have Myler on the bench as someone to close out the game and bring that cool head or perhaps to come on with a chance of tactic if things aren't working out.

Harry should be treated as a finisher for this match. Recently, some of his kicks have gone wayward but more worryingly, he's had a couple of brain freezes then a bit of panic sets in, the ball gets chucked about and it all gets loose. This is when Sarries will pounce, as we saw in game 1.

I think Sarries will expect us to come out with Mylers kicking game so i think we should run at them hard and fast, reset, keep possession then run at them again.

 
The Bard
Re: NEWS: European Cup:Northampton Saints v Saracens Game Thread
The Bard (IP Logged)
11/10/2017 20:32
Should be an epic contest, I'm certainly expecting one of our sternest tests in recent times. Losing Billy's ball carrying will hurt us considerably (as it would anyone in fairness). Don't think we'll be 40 up at half time somehow!

 
HungryLikeTheWolf
Re: NEWS: European Cup:Northampton Saints v Saracens Game Thread
HungryLikeTheWolf (IP Logged)
12/10/2017 13:17
All this talk of playing territory and kicking a lot..... NZ and super rugby sides led the way, ok they kick when needed especially when receiving from another kick. But the ball is to be used to score tries, in the modern game. Not to be booted away to their back 3 to kick back and then we face a 50/50 high ball back where we kicked it. Thatís all old hat and luckily we have evolved, with the game, this year.


Keep playing how we are playing. Iím not scared of Saracens attack or defence (albeit theyíre the best). For the first time in years theyíll be worried about our ability to score tries. Donít give that away by playing some supposedly low risk strategy.


We have our new identity. Stick with it whoever starts at 10. Incidentally Stephen has ran at the line more in the last 2 appearances than the last 2 years, which is great.

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