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Blood injury
Discussion started by mitzy , 01 December, 2019 19:26
Blood injury
mitzy 01 December, 2019 19:26
Did the blood injury seem a bit suspect to anyone?

Re: Blood injury
EverOptimistic 01 December, 2019 19:50
yep!

Re: Blood injury
Jimeno 01 December, 2019 20:43
Barnes did a lot of checking to make sure it was legit. Gotta wonder why...



°Vamos los osos!
http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/file/s100.htm?102,file=7153

Re: Blood injury
Big Dave 01 December, 2019 21:07
No. I don't think it's conceivable that anyone would try this now.

Re: Blood injury
rambling sid 01 December, 2019 22:36
I thought it was a con. The end result was that LI didn't suffer any disadvantage from having their player red carded. They certainly knew how to play the rules to the limit.

Re: Blood injury
Ruckingood 02 December, 2019 00:59
LI in Peace here -

just a note, Lovejoy has broken his thumb and the little cut was where his webbing had split as the bone came through... Irish medics managed to get the bone back inside hence it looked like a little cut but the thumb is @#$%&.

Re: Blood injury
cjm. 02 December, 2019 08:42
Quote:
rambling sid
I thought it was a con. The end result was that LI didn't suffer any disadvantage from having their player red carded. They certainly knew how to play the rules to the limit.

Apart from having one less player on the pitch. SMH.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2019 08:47 by cjm..

Re: Blood injury
Gray_Lensman 02 December, 2019 09:26
Yes, but the Irish scrum was really starting to creak, especially after all the energy devoted to the defensive effort. The loss the scrum as an attacking weapon, both as a source of possession and to further sap the strength of the Irish players, was a blow to Bristol.

Uncontested scrums have never sat well with me, particularly when they so often come about because a player is off for disciplinary reasons. The fact we are forced to bring on front-row replacements when we don't need them is just stupid, it reduces our ability to to gain an advantage from the extra man

Re: Blood injury
KJS 02 December, 2019 10:15
A player is not allowed on the field of play if heís bleeding, thatís what the rule is for.

What happened yesterday is that those rules were used to allow an extra substitution for LI in a game that was fast paced and attritional........ hence an advantage.

The severity of injury to the LI player is of course unfortunate but irrelevant, although as no details have been released itís hard to know what this was exactly. if the bleeding is stopped with stitches, dumbbells or the other measures the medics all have, then the blood sub rule no longer applies. The player can either rejoin play or if too injured be substituted for another player if the team has substitutions left........

LI used all their subs, the last used as the injured player left the field and before anyone would have had a chance to really asses severity or whether the bleeding was controllable. LI were also then able to keep the blood sub on, thus benefiting from an extra fit and fresh body on the pitch during the critical end portion of the game ...... because Perhaps a split in someoneís hand couldnít be controlled by a trained medical team in 20 minutes or because it was better for LI, who knows and at this stage who really cares........

Itís done, we played poorly and LI did what they needed to......... points dropped, lessons to be learned and move on. Either they got away with one and it contributed to an already poor performance from us or they genuinely failed to stop a hand bleed and thatís another piece of bad luck ........

Re: Blood injury
Florida 02 December, 2019 11:40
Quote:
KJS
A player is not allowed on the field of play if heís bleeding, thatís what the rule is for.
What happened yesterday is that those rules were used to allow an extra substitution for LI in a game that was fast paced and attritional........ hence an advantage.

The severity of injury to the LI player is of course unfortunate but irrelevant, although as no details have been released itís hard to know what this was exactly. if the bleeding is stopped with stitches, dumbbells or the other measures the medics all have, then the blood sub rule no longer applies. The player can either rejoin play or if too injured be substituted for another player if the team has substitutions left........

LI used all their subs, the last used as the injured player left the field and before anyone would have had a chance to really asses severity or whether the bleeding was controllable. LI were also then able to keep the blood sub on, thus benefiting from an extra fit and fresh body on the pitch during the critical end portion of the game ...... because Perhaps a split in someoneís hand couldnít be controlled by a trained medical team in 20 minutes or because it was better for LI, who knows and at this stage who really cares........

Itís done, we played poorly and LI did what they needed to......... points dropped, lessons to be learned and move on. Either they got away with one and it contributed to an already poor performance from us or they genuinely failed to stop a hand bleed and thatís another piece of bad luck ........

He broke his thumb, the bone pierced the skin, this was not a blood replacement, this was not us getting away with something, this was not us bending the rules.

Re: Blood injury
Stevie_Wonder 02 December, 2019 11:49
Quote:
Florida
Quote:
KJS
A player is not allowed on the field of play if heís bleeding, thatís what the rule is for.
What happened yesterday is that those rules were used to allow an extra substitution for LI in a game that was fast paced and attritional........ hence an advantage.

The severity of injury to the LI player is of course unfortunate but irrelevant, although as no details have been released itís hard to know what this was exactly. if the bleeding is stopped with stitches, dumbbells or the other measures the medics all have, then the blood sub rule no longer applies. The player can either rejoin play or if too injured be substituted for another player if the team has substitutions left........

LI used all their subs, the last used as the injured player left the field and before anyone would have had a chance to really asses severity or whether the bleeding was controllable. LI were also then able to keep the blood sub on, thus benefiting from an extra fit and fresh body on the pitch during the critical end portion of the game ...... because Perhaps a split in someoneís hand couldnít be controlled by a trained medical team in 20 minutes or because it was better for LI, who knows and at this stage who really cares........

Itís done, we played poorly and LI did what they needed to......... points dropped, lessons to be learned and move on. Either they got away with one and it contributed to an already poor performance from us or they genuinely failed to stop a hand bleed and thatís another piece of bad luck ........

He broke his thumb, the bone pierced the skin, this was not a blood replacement, this was not us getting away with something, this was not us bending the rules.

So the reason he left the field was due to the broken thumb, not the blood?

If so, a blood replacement should not have been allowed, it should have been a substitution. And if LI had used all of their subs, then they play with one less player. The blood injury rule is designed to be a temporary replacement with a view to getting the player stitched, bandaged etc and back on the field. If in this instance the player was never going to come back on due to the broken thumb, then the blood was surely irrelevant?

Horrible to see a bad injury and he took it like a trooper!! Didn't appear to be in any pain at all!! But it doesn't take away from the rules being bent a bit. (Unless anybody genuinely in the know can clarify something we don't know about what went on...)

Re: Blood injury
KingoftheHill 02 December, 2019 11:55
Quote:
Florida
Quote:
KJS
A player is not allowed on the field of play if heís bleeding, thatís what the rule is for.
What happened yesterday is that those rules were used to allow an extra substitution for LI in a game that was fast paced and attritional........ hence an advantage.

The severity of injury to the LI player is of course unfortunate but irrelevant, although as no details have been released itís hard to know what this was exactly. if the bleeding is stopped with stitches, dumbbells or the other measures the medics all have, then the blood sub rule no longer applies. The player can either rejoin play or if too injured be substituted for another player if the team has substitutions left........

LI used all their subs, the last used as the injured player left the field and before anyone would have had a chance to really asses severity or whether the bleeding was controllable. LI were also then able to keep the blood sub on, thus benefiting from an extra fit and fresh body on the pitch during the critical end portion of the game ...... because Perhaps a split in someoneís hand couldnít be controlled by a trained medical team in 20 minutes or because it was better for LI, who knows and at this stage who really cares........

Itís done, we played poorly and LI did what they needed to......... points dropped, lessons to be learned and move on. Either they got away with one and it contributed to an already poor performance from us or they genuinely failed to stop a hand bleed and thatís another piece of bad luck ........

He broke his thumb, the bone pierced the skin, this was not a blood replacement, this was not us getting away with something, this was not us bending the rules.

It was announced as a blood replacement - hence the extra sub . . . so yes, very much bending the rules

Re: Blood injury
Florida 02 December, 2019 11:58
Quote:
Stevie_Wonder
Quote:
Florida
Quote:
KJS
A player is not allowed on the field of play if heís bleeding, thatís what the rule is for.
What happened yesterday is that those rules were used to allow an extra substitution for LI in a game that was fast paced and attritional........ hence an advantage.

The severity of injury to the LI player is of course unfortunate but irrelevant, although as no details have been released itís hard to know what this was exactly. if the bleeding is stopped with stitches, dumbbells or the other measures the medics all have, then the blood sub rule no longer applies. The player can either rejoin play or if too injured be substituted for another player if the team has substitutions left........

LI used all their subs, the last used as the injured player left the field and before anyone would have had a chance to really asses severity or whether the bleeding was controllable. LI were also then able to keep the blood sub on, thus benefiting from an extra fit and fresh body on the pitch during the critical end portion of the game ...... because Perhaps a split in someoneís hand couldnít be controlled by a trained medical team in 20 minutes or because it was better for LI, who knows and at this stage who really cares........

Itís done, we played poorly and LI did what they needed to......... points dropped, lessons to be learned and move on. Either they got away with one and it contributed to an already poor performance from us or they genuinely failed to stop a hand bleed and thatís another piece of bad luck ........

He broke his thumb, the bone pierced the skin, this was not a blood replacement, this was not us getting away with something, this was not us bending the rules.

So the reason he left the field was due to the broken thumb, not the blood?

If so, a blood replacement should not have been allowed, it should have been a substitution. And if LI had used all of their subs, then they play with one less player. The blood injury rule is designed to be a temporary replacement with a view to getting the player stitched, bandaged etc and back on the field. If in this instance the player was never going to come back on due to the broken thumb, then the blood was surely irrelevant?

Horrible to see a bad injury and he took it like a trooper!! Didn't appear to be in any pain at all!! But it doesn't take away from the rules being bent a bit. (Unless anybody genuinely in the know can clarify something we don't know about what went on...)

As per the laws

Tactically replaced players may return to play only when replacing:
An injured front-row player.
A player with a blood injury.
A player with a head injury.
A player who has just been injured as a result of foul play (as verified by the match officials).
The nominated player described in Law 3.19 or 3.20.

It was never a blood injury replacement.

Re: Blood injury
LI Bohemian 02 December, 2019 12:00
Well it looks like we really conned the best rugby official on the planet, by faking a blood injury in the unusual way of pushing a thumb bone through the skin, of course if the shoe was on the other foot so to speak it would have been a blood injury that could not be fixed with a plaster and majic sponge.

Re: Blood injury
Stevie_Wonder 02 December, 2019 12:03
Quote:
Florida
Quote:
Stevie_Wonder
Quote:
Florida
Quote:
KJS
A player is not allowed on the field of play if heís bleeding, thatís what the rule is for.
What happened yesterday is that those rules were used to allow an extra substitution for LI in a game that was fast paced and attritional........ hence an advantage.

The severity of injury to the LI player is of course unfortunate but irrelevant, although as no details have been released itís hard to know what this was exactly. if the bleeding is stopped with stitches, dumbbells or the other measures the medics all have, then the blood sub rule no longer applies. The player can either rejoin play or if too injured be substituted for another player if the team has substitutions left........

LI used all their subs, the last used as the injured player left the field and before anyone would have had a chance to really asses severity or whether the bleeding was controllable. LI were also then able to keep the blood sub on, thus benefiting from an extra fit and fresh body on the pitch during the critical end portion of the game ...... because Perhaps a split in someoneís hand couldnít be controlled by a trained medical team in 20 minutes or because it was better for LI, who knows and at this stage who really cares........

Itís done, we played poorly and LI did what they needed to......... points dropped, lessons to be learned and move on. Either they got away with one and it contributed to an already poor performance from us or they genuinely failed to stop a hand bleed and thatís another piece of bad luck ........

He broke his thumb, the bone pierced the skin, this was not a blood replacement, this was not us getting away with something, this was not us bending the rules.

So the reason he left the field was due to the broken thumb, not the blood?

If so, a blood replacement should not have been allowed, it should have been a substitution. And if LI had used all of their subs, then they play with one less player. The blood injury rule is designed to be a temporary replacement with a view to getting the player stitched, bandaged etc and back on the field. If in this instance the player was never going to come back on due to the broken thumb, then the blood was surely irrelevant?

Horrible to see a bad injury and he took it like a trooper!! Didn't appear to be in any pain at all!! But it doesn't take away from the rules being bent a bit. (Unless anybody genuinely in the know can clarify something we don't know about what went on...)

As per the laws

Tactically replaced players may return to play only when replacing:
An injured front-row player.
A player with a blood injury.
A player with a head injury.
A player who has just been injured as a result of foul play (as verified by the match officials).
The nominated player described in Law 3.19 or 3.20.

It was never a blood injury replacement.

Fair point Florida, that does makes sense. I guess the confusion has been caused by it being announced at the time as a blood replacement...

Re: Blood injury
memnoch 02 December, 2019 12:05
I spoke to Wayne Barnes after the match.

He said it was a blood replacement, apparently the bone was poking through the players skin and bleeding.

I honestly do not believe anything underhand took place.

Re: Blood injury
Margin_Walker 02 December, 2019 12:08
Quote:
KJS
A player is not allowed on the field of play if heís bleeding, thatís what the rule is for.
What happened yesterday is that those rules were used to allow an extra substitution for LI in a game that was fast paced and attritional........ hence an advantage.

The severity of injury to the LI player is of course unfortunate but irrelevant, although as no details have been released itís hard to know what this was exactly. if the bleeding is stopped with stitches, dumbbells or the other measures the medics all have, then the blood sub rule no longer applies. The player can either rejoin play or if too injured be substituted for another player if the team has substitutions left........

LI used all their subs,
the last used as the injured player left the field and before anyone would have had a chance to really asses severity or whether the bleeding was controllable. LI were also then able to keep the blood sub on, thus benefiting from an extra fit and fresh body on the pitch during the critical end portion of the game ...... because Perhaps a split in someoneís hand couldnít be controlled by a trained medical team in 20 minutes or because it was better for LI, who knows and at this stage who really cares........

Itís done, we played poorly and LI did what they needed to......... points dropped, lessons to be learned and move on. Either they got away with one and it contributed to an already poor performance from us or they genuinely failed to stop a hand bleed and thatís another piece of bad luck ........

Couple of points

LI didn't use all their subs. TJ Ioane (a flanker) was unused

The fit and fresh blood sub was a loosehead who'd left the field only ten minutes before after emptying the tank.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2019 12:09 by Margin_Walker.

Re: Blood injury
Rich. 02 December, 2019 12:32
Quote:
memnoch
I spoke to Wayne Barnes after the match.
He said it was a blood replacement, apparently the bone was poking through the players skin and bleeding.

I honestly do not believe anything underhand took place.

Thanks memnoch. Are we as a society becoming overly-cynical now?


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