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Steve Lansdown; Premiership salary cap should stay
Discussion started by dpw , 18 May, 2020 17:55
Steve Lansdown; Premiership salary cap should stay
dpw 18 May, 2020 17:55

Re: Steve Lansdown; Premiership salary cap should stay
NickBeard 19 May, 2020 16:56
One of the points of the Myers report was the attitude to rules was far too liberal amongst certain clubs.

Bristol have made a point of making the rules the basis of their recruitment and retention. We have taken them at face value, and based our approach on them. The absolute opposite of Saracens and probably a few others who saw the rules as something to be bypassed/avoided/ dealt with.

By all means change the rules longterm, but you can't just change them when legally binding contracts are in place.

Re: Steve Lansdown; Premiership salary cap should stay
TimothyQ 19 May, 2020 19:17
Quote:
NickBeard
One of the points of the Myers report was the attitude to rules was far too liberal amongst certain clubs.
Bristol have made a point of making the rules the basis of their recruitment and retention. We have taken them at face value, and based our approach on them. The absolute opposite of Saracens and probably a few others who saw the rules as something to be bypassed/avoided/ dealt with.

By all means change the rules longterm, but you can't just change them when legally binding contracts are in place.

Absolutely right, and given that the report said that most clubs are within 4% of the cap, then it is very unlikely that a change in the actual spending regulations would be imposed in the immediate future. Given the loses that clubs are making (and even though it would be bad news for Bris), I’d favour a reduction in the salary cap phased in over several years, but I wouldn’t support the PRL penalising teams who had entered into contracts before the new regulations were announced.

Re: Steve Lansdown; Premiership salary cap should stay
Rich. 19 May, 2020 19:46
One great thing about this article is that for anyone needing reassurance about Steve's ambition for the club it shows you don't need to worry

Re: Steve Lansdown; Premiership salary cap should stay
alas 19 May, 2020 21:14
It's an ambition to ruin the sport and drive clubs into bankruptcy.

Re: Steve Lansdown; Premiership salary cap should stay
Rich. 19 May, 2020 21:41
Quote:
alas
It's an ambition to ruin the sport and drive clubs into bankruptcy.

Until BT Sport and then CVC money many Prem clubs spent well under the salary cap, some far below. No-one forced them then to spend more than they felt able to and no-one will force clubs to this time either. Now that's not to say where I stand on this but: (a) as said it should be positive news to those who felt the virus impact would make SL want to cool things down and (b) as just said this doesn't mean clubs have to go over any cliff. In fact the more clubs wanting to reduce by 25% the less relegation risk for those clubs who do that.

Re: Steve Lansdown; Premiership salary cap should stay
TimothyQ 19 May, 2020 22:24
Alas - this is the first time that Bris have spent two consecutive seasons in the premiership for a long time, so I doubt that SL is causing the problem all by himself.

In the probable event that you are trolling: not bad. If I could offer some advice, it is usually a good idea to start small and build up to something outrageous. Nakedly Inflammatory comments are often ignored.

Re: Steve Lansdown; Premiership salary cap should stay
alas 19 May, 2020 23:14
Every source of income for premiership clubs tv money, RFU money, gate money, sponsorship is likely to fall significantly over the next couple of years. On top of that clubs have to give CVC 27% of turnover. Under these circumstances to keep the salary cap at 7 million and the inflationary marquee players would be ruinous.

Re: Steve Lansdown; Premiership salary cap should stay
Rinkadink 20 May, 2020 01:32
Will edit again tomorrow, too tired and incoherent winking smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20/05/2020 01:40 by Rinkadink.

Re: Steve Lansdown; Premiership salary cap should stay
TimothyQ 20 May, 2020 07:16
Quote:
alas
Every source of income for premiership clubs tv money, RFU money, gate money, sponsorship is likely to fall significantly over the next couple of years. On top of that clubs have to give CVC 27% of turnover. Under these circumstances to keep the salary cap at 7 million and the inflationary marquee players would be ruinous.

I agree in part, but according to the Myners report, most of the clubs are spending within 4% of the cap. Given that these clubs have contractual obligations, this makes it unfeasible to change the cap in the short term anyway as it would force most clubs over the cap simply by virtue of honouring their obligations.

That means that you’d need to phase it in over several years, by which time the financial restraints on the sport may have eased.

Re: Steve Lansdown; Premiership salary cap should stay
Dieselpup 20 May, 2020 08:07
Is there not an element of market forces at play here?

Apart from a very small majority players choose clubs based on package offered (salary, ambition, training, development, environment, management etc etc). They are looking for the best all round package they can get at any given time?

If the salary cap is reduced, the marquee player rule removed the English clubs will not be able to compete with clubs globally for the services of these marquee players. The only time we as fans will see this talent is at international level which is currently over subscribes and prohibitively expensive.

Why cant we continue with the cap system as it is and develop young home grown talent along side?
I would argue that Dan T has benefited massively from working with George S, Steve L and of course Pat L as just one example, all of which would not be at Bristol , in my opinion if the system was changed to the recommendations.
Clubs need to develop, bring in the best players / coaches, have the best stadiums to be inspirational for all those grass roots players around the English unions who aspire to be professional.

This is really a debate to be had over a beer somewhere !! (roll on those times again)!!

DP.

Re: Steve Lansdown; Premiership salary cap should stay
Gray_Lensman 20 May, 2020 10:08
The salary cap is intended to control inflationary pressures on the main cost of clubs and to an extent provide for a competitive league. We have seen what happens when clubs overextend, most recently with London Welsh. We have also seen what happens when a club circumvents the cap and builds a squad that is of a higher quality with greater strength in depth; it wins virtually everything leaving everyone else far behind. Without a cap the Premiership would end up as a competition between Lansdown and Brownsword as to who is prepared to spend the most money.

The role of the 'marquee' players is more of a problem. I agree they can bring an element of stardust to the league or provide examples to other members of a squad to learn from and develop. If Radradra, for example, plays to his potential then it will be marvellous to witness, especially if the rest of the team try to raise their game to his level.

On the other hand there is the argument that marquee players contribute to inflationary pressures and distort the league, the very things the salary cap is intended to prevent. There's an element of truth in this because the marquee player outside the cap must reflect the spending power of the club and presumably give a playing advantage . But how much difference can two players make in what is now a game for big squads? As for contributing to wage inflation I'm not sure at all. It might contribute to it in the world market (although I expect that France and Japan are responsible for this to a much greater extent than the English Premiership) but how does that work within the Premiership if the rest of the squad has to operate inside the cap? There might be an downward driver when a player ceases to be exempt (presumably Luatua has been displaced and Radradra and Piutau are now the marquees) because he now has to come within the cap. Conversely players might seek wages close to those achieved by the marquee players. That's only natural and might drive wages up generally but the cap still acts to control that. We could choose to pay Siale the same as his brother but that simply means there is less for other players because there's only so much money in the pot. The cap does act as brake on wages.

Perhaps the marquee system is flawed and other mechanisms are possible but I don't believe it is so flawed that it undermines the entire salary cap to a huge extent.

Re: Steve Lansdown; Premiership salary cap should stay
Jim H 20 May, 2020 10:15
Gray, I appreciate you don't follow Bath but Brownsword left ages ago!

Plus, he was never going to spend loads on Bath. I was dating a girl who's Dad was good friends with Brownsword (He was god father to her brother) and spoke to him. He felt he was just looking after Bath, he never intended to own run it long & took over just to prevent it being bought by more "fickle" people (Malcolm Pearce was mentioned) and being wiped out.

Re: Steve Lansdown; Premiership salary cap should stay
Rich. 20 May, 2020 10:36
Not just about how much money you spend of course - Bath have chucked loads at it for years and since Ford left them some time ago as coach they've been underwhelming.

Re: Steve Lansdown; Premiership salary cap should stay
NickBeard 20 May, 2020 10:49
Given Mr Lansdown's involvement in both Premiership Rugby with the Cap and Championship football with 'Financial Fair Play' and his clear financial acumen, it seems to me he is the ideal person to be heavily involved in improving this whole thing. He has a unique viewpoint which should be harnessed to protect the game and allow it to grow.

I suspect he likes the financial certainty the Cap gives an owner. He's invested in infrastructure and has absolutely the right person leading the club and investing in players. It's a different picture in football with massively overpaid players and agents who don't necessarily have their best interests at heart.

Re: Steve Lansdown; Premiership salary cap should stay
Gray_Lensman 20 May, 2020 11:02
Quote:
Jim H
Gray, I appreciate you don't follow Bath but Brownsword left ages ago!
Plus, he was never going to spend loads on Bath. I was dating a girl who's Dad was good friends with Brownsword (He was god father to her brother) and spoke to him. He felt he was just looking after Bath, he never intended to own run it long & took over just to prevent it being bought by more "fickle" people (Malcolm Pearce was mentioned) and being wiped out.

Living in the past! I was thinking Bruce Craig and wrote Brownsword because it started with the letter 'B'! D'oh!

Re: Steve Lansdown; Premiership salary cap should stay
Big Dave 21 May, 2020 09:00
I'd rather Steve than Pete, that's all I'll say!

Re: Steve Lansdown; Premiership salary cap should stay
ROLLO 21 May, 2020 14:27
A very balanced post Gray.
I suppose if I have marquee ? i.e. Luatua to Piutau £600k v £900k I believe. Do we not think that it raises the expecations/demands of players further down the line ? In another question , has his play been worth say four times the amount of Sheedy, or twice as much as Afoa. From what I have seen not.

Re: Steve Lansdown; Premiership salary cap should stay
Big Dave 22 May, 2020 14:32
Different stages in their careers.

Re: Steve Lansdown; Premiership salary cap should stay
Rich. 22 May, 2020 15:42
Quote:
ROLLO
A very balanced post Gray.
I suppose if I have marquee ? i.e. Luatua to Piutau £600k v £900k I believe. Do we not think that it raises the expecations/demands of players further down the line ? In another question , has his play been worth say four times the amount of Sheedy, or twice as much as Afoa. From what I have seen not.

Without knowing how much any of those 4 players mentioned are paid, my observations on that would be:

1) Sheeds has turned out to be a far better player than would (I'm sure) have been known would be the case when he was agreeing his contract. So the fact he has been a 'bargain' (when thinking of how good he has been compared to his likely salary) does not mean that anyone else has been overpaid;

2) Linked to that, both CP and SL have been fantastic. I'm not sure they could have contributed any more than they have. Sheeds being so great does not mean they are less valuable or have been any worse value for money.

3) JA has been great - he has perhaps not been quite as influential this season as last I'd say, but still great and the number of minutes he plays on the bounce is almost unique for a prop, regardless of age!

4) Pat said on the Hamilton/Goode podcast how excited the players were about having Radradra coming and, effectively, the benefits to them which they were looking forward to (directly from off-loads from him and more indirectly via the benefit to the club as a whole). I doubt any of them will have an issue with him coming here on big money if he delivers what is expected and, likewise, I'm sure they have no issue with what CP or SL are paid. I mean having CP and SL here has greatly helped the team get into 3rd place in the Prem and they will realise that if they play in the Champions Cup next year then: (a) they might not have had the chance without those two in the team; and (b) they will stand a fair chance of doing well in it in part as a result of those 2 and Radradra begin in the squad. They will know that they will look better and will develop playing alongside those players and that will increase their international prospects etc etc.

5) so so far our marquee players have delivered.

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