Sale Sharks

Team: 15 Mike Haley, 14 Denny Solomona, 13 Sam James, 12 Mark Jennings, 11 Byron McGuigan, 10 AJ MacGinty, 9 Faf de Klerk, 1 Ross Harrison, 2 Marc Jones, 3 Alex Tarus, 4 Bryn Evans, 5 Josh Beaumont, 6 Jono Ross Captain, 7 Ben Curry, 8 Josh Strauss

Replacements: 16 Rob Webber, 17 James Flynn, 18 Halani Auilka, 19 Andre Ostrikov, 20 TJ Ioane, 21 Cameron Neild, 22 Will Cliff, 23 James O'Connor

Iffy:-

[www.salesharks.com]

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There are no ants in Antarctica despite the name.

Will Flynn ever start a game for you guys?

Quote:

ballsout
Will Flynn ever start a game for you guys?

Yes

Quins team


15. Aaron Morris (11) 
14. Marland Yarde (79) 
13. Joe Marchant (42) 
12. Jamie Roberts (34) 
11. Tim Visser (38) 
10. Marcus Smith (5) 
9. Danny Care (229) 

1. Joe Marler (155) 
2. Dave Ward (122) 
3. Will Collier (112) 
4. George Merrick (64) 
5. James Horwill (Captain, 44) 
6. Chris Robshaw (243) 
7. Jack Clifford (71) 
8. Mat Luamanu (43) 

16. Elia Elia (1) 
17. Mark Lambert (214) 
18. Phil Swainston (1) 
19. Charlie Matthews (142) 
20. Ben Glynn (5) 
21. Dave Lewis (1) 
22. Tim Swiel (44) 
23. Alofa Alofa (32) 

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Liking our chances here. COME ON SALE !

Who are they missing from the first team other than Brown and Sinkler?

Theirs is a big physical side. We need to match that and move them around. Maybe the advantage shifts to us when the benches clear.

V good team they have put considering injury issues.

Quote:

Crutch
Who are they missing from the first team other than Brown and Sinkler?

Charlie Walker (selected ahead of Visser prior to his concussion), Saili, Sloan, Catrakilis, Buchanan, Twomey, Wallace, Chisholm (James) and Bothma.

players who'd likely figure for them if not injured IMO would be: Buchanan at hooker, Mike Brown, Catrakilis, Both Chisholm brothers, Sinkler, Frances Saili & Luke Wallace

First choice back line apart from Brown. Though I'm not convinced from what I have seen of Brown.

they are probably missing 4 nailed on starters (brown, sinckler, wallace and saili). still looks a pretty good quins side. they look, even without wallace, very strong at the breakdown and plenty of ball carriers.

considering those who picked up knocks last week good to see all but Tom Curry in the squad. i do wonder if we should have rotated beaumont for ostrikov for a bit more bulk in the tight five. back row battle should be good.

tough away game, quins always easier to play in the international periods. if we are targeting 3-4 away wins a season this is on the 'maybe' target list.

Quote:

safc_shark

Quote:

ballsout
Will Flynn ever start a game for you guys?

Yes

Probably in the euro games

No easy away games noowadays. We must beware complacency. Remember last season when Nick Evans went off & Swiel had a blinder?

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There are no ants in Antarctica despite the name.

Quote:

stevene
they are probably missing 4 nailed on starters (brown, sinckler, wallace and saili). still looks a pretty good quins side. they look, even without wallace, very strong at the breakdown and plenty of ball carriers.
considering those who picked up knocks last week good to see all but Tom Curry in the squad. i do wonder if we should have rotated beaumont for ostrikov for a bit more bulk in the tight five. back row battle should be good.

tough away game, quins always easier to play in the international periods. if we are targeting 3-4 away wins a season this is on the 'maybe' target list.

Rotation aside (and that's a pretty big aside nowadays) Catrakilis would be an absolute nailed on starter. Buchanan too probably as he was first choice hooker all of last season. Twomey had also moved ahead of his other young rivals (Matthews and Merrick) to partner Horwill.

But unless it is an absolutely critical match few clubs name their absolute first choice team - and most clubs probably wouldn't know what it is anyway!

Would Catrakilis play ahead of Smith. Not convinced

I doubt he would now that Smith has shown what he's got. If Catrakilis does end up starting a game or two when he's back then he'll have to play very well to be ultimately preferred to a fit Smith.

Smith has masses of talent, but he isnt the finished article. Quite a bit of objectivity has been lost in the current excitement about him, as it was for Cipriani/Slade/Ford/Farrell/Burns before him.

Very true Mart. Regardless he started the first game before he got battered so it's certainly debatable as to who their first choice 10 would have been.

Quote:

MartWhit
Smith has masses of talent, but he isnt the finished article. Quite a bit of objectivity has been lost in the current excitement about him, as it was for Cipriani/Slade/Ford/Farrell/Burns before him.

I tend to agree, I think he's done really well in the games I've seen but o think some of the praise and MOM awards have been slightly over the top.

not sure the current level of praise is best for him even.

I think you're getting carried away. He's deservedly had praise from the likes of Kingston and Eddie but they've also made it clear that he has a long way to go. In fact I haven't seen much hyperbole about him at all. He's playing well in a mis-firing team and there's nothing wrong with pointing that out just because he's 18.

Suggestion on the Quins site that Horwill is out.

that would be a big loss for them, obstacle removed for us.

He's a really nice bloke for an Aussie. I went to the QoS recording when he was on and they did the video comparison between him scoring v wales and Usain Bolt winning a 100m race. Great show that. Bryony Page was on as well and Tuffers hadn't remembered her in a previous show.

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There are no ants in Antarctica despite the name.

Quote:

clutch
Would Catrakilis play ahead of Smith. Not convinced

Absolutely. Quins didn't pay all that money for him to sit on the bench. Smith has been thrown in at the deep end and has done well but I'm sure he will be used more sparingly when Catrakilis is fit. Remember he's only a kid.

....a very, very talented kid.

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There are no ants in Antarctica despite the name.

Concerning to see the BT team pull apart our defensive structure in less than 5 minutes.

It's always pointed out by the Leicester Lip when we're on telly that we're very narrow.

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There are no ants in Antarctica despite the name.

and bent.

Better since Addison was injured.

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There are no ants in Antarctica despite the name.

sorry guys, our defensive system is just rubbish.

- caught out on 30 seconds and zero phases with a simple chip behind because we parked big forwards in the cnetres
- Ended up with faf defending the wing slot after 2 phases
- nearly got caught by another simple chip for phase 4
- poor tackle technique gifts penalty after 3 minutes.
- preposterously lucky not to give away a try after 4 minutes when caught narrow.....again

quins didnt do anything to pull it apart, it just unravels all on its own.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2017 18:45 by MartWhit.

For those who aren't at the game, and haven't got access to BT Sport which is probably only me .....

Commentary is available online from the BBC website
[www.bbc.co.uk]

Also, available on DAB Radio on R5 Live Sports Extra

what in hells name was solomona doing infield. We had a 4 on 2 defensive advantage, qith a fullback behind too, and he got one floated over his head. Ridiculous.

this is just a 20 minute s**t show. Once again behind the 8 ball before the game has really started.

Passive tackling when it needs ot be agressive, the knock on coach has been back in training and has added an effective intercept game to his repertoire.

Sides know exactly what then need to do to play against us, which in attack is just keep ball.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2017 18:57 by MartWhit.

14 - 0 to Quins. Oh dear, this seems a little bit too easy them

Solomona is losing the battle vs visser somehow couldn't tackle him in build up to 2nd quins try

We can't expect to make 200 tackles in a match ( 50 after 20 minutes) and not leak tries .
Need to compete at the breakdown otherwise we will get thumped

24 mins gone

Quins 21 Sale 0

Oh dear, oh dear. Away from home again........



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2017 19:02 by C3Q.

kay sums it up

just gifted opportunities

defensive errors capitalised on, rather than Quins forcing them

Unfortunately we are believing our own hype , two tries given away by trying to play rugby in our own 22.
Pragmatism needed

As well as the scoreline the sportsnetwork clock also seems to have gone wrong it's about 15 minutes slow.

Haley scores under the posts

boy did we need that try.

Thats more like it. KISS

I've never seen a team with such a disparity of basic game intelligence between the attack and the defence. The Baa Baa's defend better and attack worse and less often than we do.

Excellent try from Haley,

That's what happens when you slow it down,
Need to keep it simple, it's an age old cliche but you've got to earn the right to sling the ball around and we're not doing that ATM

Never like to see a player injured, and I wish Clifford a full and speedy recovery, but he was playing excellently tonight, him going off is definitely a small blessing.

We still lack rugby intelligence and composure plus a serious psychological issue when we play away. It's as if we expect to get beaten and are automatically on the back foot mentally

their bench is stretch beforehand, that doesnt help them, even though we neve rlike to see injuries.

Long way back for us though.

HIA for Josh? or tactical?

Trying to over play everything just need to keep it simple

Quote:

MartWhit
their bench is stretch beforehand, that doesnt help them, even though we neve rlike to see injuries.
Long way back for us though.

HIA for Josh? or tactical?

possibly non head injury

Thank goodness that half is over.
Apparently our average number of points conceeded in the first half away from home this season is 24. We just exceeded expectations.

Why do we turn into rugby numpties as soon as we leave the AJB?

Another first half dicking and nearly all of our own making

Last 2 mins was typical. Our line out mid way and instead of just securing the ball we throw it to the back, cock it up and end up defending a 5m scrum. Just @#$%& dumb

Need to get Ulrika and Webber on asap.

Ulrika is changed and ready for second half.

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Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

Newcastle have shown us the way to play away. Make sure you stay in the game. Don't blow it in the first 30 mins trying to play miracle rugby and making dumb mistakes. Keep it simple and give yourselves a chance

Smarten up FFS

Yes I'm angry and p1ssed off

whya have we taken Strauss off. the only forward to make any gainline advantage.

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Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

Sam James is still clearly struggling with the knee injury.....so we take of Macginty?

We are worse than Glous were last week

It's just pathetic and embarrassing

yet again basic defensive setup fails and Visser scores.

Faf defending the wing channel from 2nd phase? no sweeper? ludicrous.

I'd love for Sale to field Mike Forshaw for the post game interviews. He's the only person I'd want to speak to.

As poor as we have been, you do feel that we could still be in this.

Quote:

C3Q
As poor as we have been, you do feel that we could still be in this.

Kind of feel the same,
Quins increasingly hit by injury and having to turn to reserves on the bench whereas we've got some real impact on

Absolutely dreadful. No away win in a year. Top 6 is nothing more than a dream with those statistics. Especially as Quins are without 45% of their squad.

it was always a dream. It was delusional to extrapolate that from a coutnerattacking 3 interception win last week. We're still fundamentally flawed on the defensive side of the ball.

More dumb rugby

Lost count of the numnber of passes that we've thrown on the floor

Marler literally had one hand on the floor leaning on it, the other on the ball - how is that supporting his own weight?

Well done Sam

Maybe his knee is OK after all!

I like our cunning trick to avoid the injury problems of other teams by not muscling up in defence. Might pay off by the end of the season.

Danny Care Man of the Match for me. Speed of play, and particularly his line speed in disrupting Faf has neutralized what little effective play we may have had.

How on earth did we get a bonus point out of that? Might get 2 yet.

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Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

Good comeback to get a bp but defence again woeful as they easily score again. We aare constantly caught short out wide and have been all season.

Defensive system is not good enough against any half decent side

Message to Mr Forshaw, must practice line out maul defence, and sweeper system defence next week.
Oh and a bit more work from the Guru on how to have the right mind set for the first 20 minutes of an away match !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2017 20:29 by camshark.

McGuigan deserved that, should have gone for the trip and high tackle earlier.

I think Forshaws time has come and gone. There's been no morphing of our defensive system to address systemic weaknesses. If the coach wont change then the coach needs to be changed.

There is irony though in a referee stating that he has binned him for a disproportionate response, when he has just spent 10 minutes watching handbags on replay.

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Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

Watching on a live stream which has frozen just at the end....why was the penalty reversed?

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A point's a point but that was dire


There were some individual positives - thought Strauss had a decent game, Jono Ross has an endless gas tank, he was grafting until the end, JOC looked a class above when he came on, and Ioane was an absolute whirlwind of energy and explosiveness - but on the whole that was very concerning.

We were our own worst enemy in this game. So many knock on's, passes gone to no one and people going on their own and getting turned over. Games like these with teams similar to us should be won. Faf as good as he is needs to stop doing meaningless kicks

Quote:

Tigger
Watching on a live stream which has frozen just at the end....why was the penalty reversed?

Initial penalty for Swiel infringing on McGuigan, reversed for McGuigan retaliating/escalating.

Don't think he gave us a penalty in the first place, but Quinns got a pen for McGuigans reaction to Swiels treatment. Right decision.

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Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

Penalty reversed because McGuigan retaliated to the foul by Swiel.

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There are no ants in Antarctica despite the name.

Oh well, Charnley will get a run out next week while Byron goes to naughty step.

Aulika good when he came on seemed to do what i was screaming at my screen for tarus to do, which was just to go for the turnover before the ruck formed, as he quite often was in position to do it all game.
A lot of our better players played poorly today and they'll be kicking themselves they couldn't have done better tonight.

Ref gave a penalty for Visser kicking the ball out of Fafs hands.

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There are no ants in Antarctica despite the name.

OK. Yes, we were playing under a penalty advantage. Thought they meant we got a pen against Swiel

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Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

42 - 26

To Quins

Guru Kelly jokes aside we really do have a psychological issue with away games. 7 wins out of the last 36 away in the league (3 of those were against the team that was eventually relegated) and 1 in the last 14 and regularly shipping 40+ points. That really is unacceptable on any level

For 20 mins in that 2nd half we switched on, played like a professional rugby team and did well. For the other 60 mins we were just a shambles. Dumb, brainless rugby, inexcusable mistakes, dreadful defensive set up, no line speed in defence, no bite or spark in attack. We don't learn from mistakes and we don't make good decisions under pressure or even not under pressure.

As happy and positive as I was last week I'm equally dismayed and unhappy this week. Forget top 6, its lower table mediocrity for this side even with the quality additions unless something radically changes in out approach and attitude to away games

And just one other thing, what was O'Conner doing on the bench. If he's fit then play him from the start and take him off after 50 or 60 if necessary. No pint bringing him n when the game is gone

I'm really annoyed and frustrated. I so desperately want Sale to do well, or even just not be crap, but we just @#$%& it up ourselves so often

Rant over



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2017 21:25 by ashtonshark.

68 point thriller.

21-0 down after 23 mins and game over by half time



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2017 21:07 by ashtonshark.

Well played Quins they deserved the victory.

We had a nightmare first 25 minutes and if you play like that then you'll always be in trouble. Credit in some regards to our lads to get the 1 bonus point and the players off the bench had some impact, T.J. particularly, he's done that a few times off the bench with high-energy. Almost a super-sub.

Not sure though why Dimes insists on giving the starting XV five minutes or so in the 2nd-half before making changes, those changes were apparent by halftime. If you adopt that tactic it makes it easier for the opposition as Quins starting XV have had 5 minutes to get into the tempo game.

Looks like we took lesson's from Gloucester by gifting a number of interceptions but we got one back from Sam James.

Danny Care easily won the battle of the 9's and deserved the man of the match. Faf had a bad night and drove me mad with his insistence on box kicking. I know it's good but tonight it wasn't and in the latter stages when there was a glimmer of a 2nd-point he kicked it away cheaply when by that stage it was obvious to keep the ball in hand. Add to that why did he keep drifting to the wing in defense, he did it a few times.

Ross didn't do himself any favours with the ref, quote 'if I've told you once, I've told you 10 times.......' if you keep on at the ref you'll annoy him so much he'll not give you marginal decisions.

Credit to Quins who were desperate to not make it 3 losses in a row, they have a better intensity and that's our downfall, the better teams a just a bit better than us at that and those small margins make the difference. Marler is a great player, such a handful and the the young lad Marcus Smith is one of the best new English talents I've seen for a while. He's going to be an England player soon and given the depth England have that's some credit to him.

All in all a frustrating night, it's ridiculous that we're such a different side away from home. We really need to address this otherwise we won't move forward much.

Expect to see O'Connor starting at 10 soon.

Why is our away form so bad? If the players can play so well at home, they should at least be able to compete away from AJB. Is this the players not doing what Dimes tells them to do, or is Dimes getting it wrong?

Other sides seem to do their homework on us (cf Newcastle) but we don't seem to do so on them.

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There are no ants in Antarctica despite the name.

coaching then?

We do seem to have some sort of hang up playing away from home. It's easy from my arm chair but we should perhaps try to starve the home team of possession and territory in the early stages. It would also allow us to settle and find our feet before half time.

I'm glad I gave up away games some years ago after feeling the team hadn't turned up.

I don't like to criticise players but I get frustrated with commentators quotes like "Ioane has added so many options since he came on". I'm sorry, but IMHO he offers only one option which everyone knows. He is surely the easiest player to set a defence plan for. However, he does make Strauss look more like a donkey row in terms of pace.

It would be great to have some line breaking forwards for our undoubtably talented backs to feed off. We have been lightweight for too long.

Credit to them for coming back so well in the second half.

V pleased that Sam James seems OK. He is such a high class and versatile player.

that first para might make you a coaching genius C3Q. If only dimes and forshaw had thought of it.

Making sure you stay in the game in the early stages...what a ridiculous idea!! Far better to either aimlessly kick the ball away or try to play champagne rugby and attempt miracle plays in your own 22, cough the ball up and give away easy points