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Championship funding cut????
Discussion started by Carnegiette2 (IP Logged), 11 February, 2020 18:44
Carnegiette2
Carnegiette2
11 February, 2020 18:44
Jon Newcombe has tweeted today a rumour that RFU funding for Championship clubs may be halved.

Now although not likely to affect us short term (barring the biggest comeback since Lazarus) this will be disastrous for some clubs and for the league as a whole. It feels like another nail in the coffin. Also incredibly shortsighted - lots of Prem players have cut their teeth in the Championship.

Link here- as I said it’s a rumour but there’s no smoke without fire

[twitter.com]

MESSAGES->author
leemingtyke
11 February, 2020 19:20
It's almost like the powers that be want the Championship to fail so they have an excuse for ring fencing the Premiership isn't it!!!

As Carnegiette correctly says, it won't affect us next season.

leeds_shark
WPL
11 February, 2020 21:25
Now on the guardian (though I suspect same source)

[www.theguardian.com]

To me it’s just another way they are ringfencing as they have been for a number of years with the criteria.

To me all it will do is make the championship uncompetitive...you’ll have the relegated team (they won’t close the door until sarries are back), a team or 2 with Money (Ealing etc) and then the rest will struggle with part time players.

It’s almost a step back to a amateur days when bricklayers found themselves moving from small villages to City jobs and harlequins et al.

The international team will suffer as a lot of players have cut their teeth in the championship...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2020 09:16 by WPL.

JDH1
JDH1
11 February, 2020 21:58
The rfu don't and haven't ever cared about champ rugby

JDH1
JDH1
11 February, 2020 22:04
Will make the meeting more interesting. I suspect this could change our plans significantly longer term!

MESSAGES->author
opuscoitus
12 February, 2020 09:05
Its ring-fencing and looking after A league in one fell swoop

Clubs will have no option but to swell squad with more DR players and with a league structure in place probably more competitive than A league where players are drafted in from everywhere at a days notice and scorelines/attendances reflect that,

will be interesting to see fallout especially on "rolling maul" as if champ clubs were relying on that money next season and beyond makes the clubs no better than us, double standards and all that?

If the deal was due to expire this summer it was always a danger

Will clearly mean YC will have to rethink strategy as there clearly was a plan for next year prob in Nat 1 but other ambitious clubs in Nat 1 will also have to rethink whether its worth their while coming up?, but with our demise already well under way we are probably in a better state than most as we don't have players under contract etc,

Still think it stinks but with all cutbacks RFU have made over the last couple of years and the lack of respect fro champ anyway hardly surprising

leeds_shark
WPL
12 February, 2020 09:29
Slight point on your post Opus

Quote:
will be interesting to see fallout especially on "rolling maul" as if champ clubs were relying on that money next season and beyond makes the clubs no better than us, double standards and all that?

I think it's reasonable to base funding on expected revenue from the governing body, our problem was relying on one sole person. That's ok if they have very deep pockets (Ealing) but for a lot it's going to cause problems. That said if the cut is as unforseen as some are saying, I wonder if there will be any unaffordable contracts like we had to deal with out there???

Depending when the cut comes in your going to see a massive split in the division, we shall call them the 'haves' and the 'have nots'. At which point do PRL then say, actually lets have 2 divisions of 8 completely ring fenced with end of season playoffs to decide ala NFL. Which considering the major investors in PRL are American may not be as crazy as it seems

Where does that leave us, who knows...it may come down to if they went down the franchise type model and want someone to plug the gap between Leicester, Sale & Newcastle... whether that is us or Donny who knows.

It feels rugby is changing, for a year at least we will be on the edge of it, at least our budget next year will not be based on funding...

MESSAGES->author
almostatyke
12 February, 2020 10:01
I think we need to recognise that in England rugby is very different to football.
It is to me bizarre that an international at Twickenham has 80+ thousand sold-out seats, with tickets exchanging hands at £500+, yet a short distance away the 15th best team in the country (Ealing) play in front of 500 people.
This is the root cause of the financial juggling.

MESSAGES->author
opuscoitus
12 February, 2020 10:29
Quote:
WPL
Slight point on your post Opus
Quote:
will be interesting to see fallout especially on "rolling maul" as if champ clubs were relying on that money next season and beyond makes the clubs no better than us, double standards and all that?

I think it's reasonable to base funding on expected revenue from the governing body, our problem was relying on one sole person. That's ok if they have very deep pockets (Ealing) but for a lot it's going to cause problems. That said if the cut is as unforseen as some are saying, I wonder if there will be any unaffordable contracts like we had to deal with out there???

Depending when the cut comes in your going to see a massive split in the division, we shall call them the 'haves' and the 'have nots'. At which point do PRL then say, actually lets have 2 divisions of 8 completely ring fenced with end of season playoffs to decide ala NFL. Which considering the major investors in PRL are American may not be as crazy as it seems

Where does that leave us, who knows...it may come down to if they went down the franchise type model and want someone to plug the gap between Leicester, Sale & Newcastle... whether that is us or Donny who knows.

It feels rugby is changing, for a year at least we will be on the edge of it, at least our budget next year will not be based on funding...


WPL sorry i didn't word it properly totally agree with what you have said, but i think the point i was making is from what i have read the funding was based on a 4 year cycle ending this summer dependent on criteria (or unacheivable targets) dependent on how you read it,

in that case each club will have known that cycle of handouts is over this summer, if they have spent before the new total was known then that is bad management, especially with the Axe swinging on various RFU departments since the 2015 world cup, also worth noticing in the RFU article they will continue to fund the championship for 20/21 no news of what follows


we are well out of it next season i reckon,

leeds_shark
WPL
12 February, 2020 12:13
I couldn't agree more glad I am out of it next season.

Just seen an extract from the RFU statement

“Ultimately the difference in the levels of funding between the current agreement and our new commitment will not be the deciding factor for clubs with aspirations for promotion and will always require additional investment. The gateway is still open for clubs to get into the Premiership if they have the necessary financial resources and meet the minimum standards required."

So basically we will have you if you have really deep pockets and a sugar daddy - does this mean they are going to leave the pointless relegation.

Part of the cynic in me says what is going to change, next season you will have Sarries & Ealing at the top, maybe pirates up there as well. But all I can see is the overall quality dropping. More players will become part time, the good quality foreign ones will probably move elsewhere for money (and I don't blame them!).

I'm going to put my optimistic hat on...Nat 1 for a year or 2, rebuild with a good base of core players and develop a solid financial performance somehow(!) and IF we can get promoted back up, we may have a fighting chance of maintaining our place.

Now all we need is Mr Ineos investing in a rugby club close to his roots!

Rawdon ranter
Rawdon ranter
12 February, 2020 12:33
mr Ineos was educated at Beverley Grammar School, so is that local enough for a begging letter. Alternatively perhaps his yacht is big enough for a rugby pitch on the deck.

MESSAGES->author
leemingtyke
12 February, 2020 13:14
RFU statement on Championship funding:

The Rugby Football Union (RFU) will continue to provide financial support to the Greene King IPA Championship next season (2020/21) following the conclusion of the current agreement which ends in June.

Aggregate funding will amount to approximately £288,000 per club and represents a return to the levels of funding prior to the 2016 - 2020 cycle.

As previously, elements of this funding will be ringfenced and increased for player medical insurance and be conditional on meeting England Qualified Player (EQP) targets.

Bill Sweeney, RFU CEO said “This is a decision based on a principle of ensuring levels of investment are geared to a clear return on investment. There are many worthy requirements from both the professional and community game and we need to make sure that every pound spent is clearly justified. The decision we have made is connected to a wider review of strategic objectives and resource allocation.

“The decision taken in 2015 to increase Championship funding significantly was against a set of objectives and deliverables that we do not believe have been achieved.

“Ultimately the difference in the levels of funding between the current agreement and our new commitment will not be the deciding factor for clubs with aspirations for promotion and will always require additional investment.

The gateway is still open for clubs to get into the Premiership if they have the necessary financial resources and meet the minimum standards required.


"The Championship is, and will continue to be, a useful way for players to get additional developmental experience, but we do not believe it is the primary place where Premiership and England players are discovered and developed.”

JDH1
JDH1
12 February, 2020 13:37
[www.jerseyreds.je]
Good response from the Jersey chairman

MESSAGES->author
leemingtyke
12 February, 2020 14:32
I have to admit that I was thinking along similar lines to Opus regarding the righteous indignation that came our way from Rolling Mall and from one or two other message boards on this platform, and continues to come our way.

Much of the early mud slinging seemed to centre on the belief that we had 'spent money we hadn't got' with regard to offering multi-year contracts.

My POV was, and continues to be, that all professional sports clubs offer multi-year contracts based on money they are expecting but have not yet received. It's not how you or I might manage our personal finances but it is standard operating procedure in the world of pro sport.

Now, as I say, my POV hasn't changed so, IF it turns out that some of those clubs have players on multi-year deals which they now can't afford I would defend that club and lay the blame squarely on the RFU.

However, I trust that those who were accusing our club of wrong doing have also not changed their view and they will be equally as scathing about their clubs as some continue to be about ours?

Especially as we were promised money that didn't materialise whereas this review of Championship funding was known about and they had been promised nothing. You could therefore argue that they have been more reckless than us.

MESSAGES->author
Madtyke
12 February, 2020 14:35
How much I wonder does the Bill Sweeney earn as a salary with the RFU. Probably more I suspect than the £288K on offer to the Championship Clubs next season and add to this any bonuses he has written in, the foreign trips, the champagne and canapes and he will be laughing all the way to the bank. Meanwhile the future of English rugby goes down the plug hole and Premiership Rugby becomes a hotbed for jolly foreign players as Sarries et al look to increase their value to Sky/BT Sport again to the detriment of the England Team. The backing of CVC will lead to International Games being broadcast on Satellite with the AB/SA games being on pay-per-view.



[www.arborfieldoldboys.co.uk]

daveyjp
daveyjp
12 February, 2020 18:08
Can anyone find any documentation which sets out the expected outcomes from the increased funding?

Jersey are saying there has never been any mention of failure to meet outcomes in 4 years of meetings. If these were the principal reasons for money being given the RFU appear to be failing in their duty to monitor, manage and report on these outcomes and if clubs are falling short find out why.

However the issues at the RFU run deep, perfectly demonstrated by their website, which is a perfect example of an organisation not on top of their business.

MESSAGES->author
almostatyke
12 February, 2020 18:49
The rfu comments are all spin. The real reason is that the rfu hosted what they called "the most successful RWC ever", then got carried away, spent loads of money, employed many people, even offering free plastic pitches to rugby clubs. The money ran out sooner than planned, none left now hence these cuts.
If the Championship had produced three Owen Farrells they would have just changed the text.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2020 19:19 by almostatyke.

Yorki
Yorki
12 February, 2020 19:17
Unfortunately rugby union is not sustainable with the small numbers of people coming through the gates, that's apart from a top few clubs in the premiership. The writing has been on the wall for years, rugby is running out of sugar daddy's, the professional game is not sustainable for most clubs and a lot players will have to accept they will play for the love of the game. The club game will slide back into the armature status with a professional premiership supported by TV revenue. The armature club game will flourish with any decent players picked off and processed through premiership academies and dumped if they are not any good. They will be no championship clubs to drop into and pay them a decent wage for those that do not make the grade.

All very sad really.

MESSAGES->author
almostatyke
12 February, 2020 21:12
After a period of reflection and reading the rfu statement several times, for what it is worth these are my conclusions:
1) rfu has run out of money so they are going to make whatever excuse for the cuts.
2) rfu has realised that clubs with Benefactors (Sugar Daddies), other than the returning Premiership relegated team, are the ones progressing in the Championship. These guys subsidise their clubs with a million or so, so why not get them to cough up a few 100 grand more?
3) rfu are only interested in the golden goose of International Rugby.

Irish Londoner
Irish Londoner
13 February, 2020 12:52
Hi chaps, first time commenter on here.
With regard to the cut would the best approach for the clubs be to make life as hard as possible for the relegated Premiership team?
It's been suggested that the Championship clubs could agree a salary cap of £2.5 million for next season, which would bu**er Saracens in terms of keeping their squad together but would have little effect on the Championship clubs?
Another thing I've seen suggested is that the Championship clubs refuse to play against Saracens, they're going back up anyway so why even play them. A season of playing friendlies with anyone who could field a team would not do Saracens any good.

Carnegiette2
Carnegiette2
13 February, 2020 13:04
Well that escalated quickly!

Article in the Guardian raises the possibility of a "breakaway league" - also has an interesting snippet that last year the Championship clubs were offered guaranteed funding for 3 years - with a modest increase if they accepted ringfencing of the Premiership. Which they didn't. Based on some things I heard this time last year I can believe that is true. Unfortunately now they may get their ringfenced league- without spending a penny.

[www.theguardian.com]

I'm not sure what the recourse for Championship clubs is to get a better outcome. Bad times.

MESSAGES->author
almostatyke
13 February, 2020 20:53
I just wonder if we need to count to 10 on this.
Trying to penalise Saracens is a different issue - a red herring - so put that to one side.
The rfu funding is at least targetted at player insurance and welfare.
If there was a breakaway league then we would need to know with cerainty that sponsors would be providing at least the rfu funding (and there has been a vacuum here).

Jockanory
Pirate15
13 February, 2020 21:24
If any Yorkshire Carnegie fans are interested in signing a petition of ' no confidence in the RFU board' one has been started on the pirates forum

bigfecker
bigfecker
13 February, 2020 21:53

DaveyP
DaveyP
18 February, 2020 11:53
[www.theguardian.com]

I'm a bit of a mixture of a Saracens fan (from my youth) and a Plymouth Albion fan (from my current location!)

I was wondering what the appetite was for a protest at Twickenham (I like the concept of the applause but it's risky as the RFU tends to only promote the international product and in my experience there are many supporters who aren't wonderfully interested in the grass roots of the game).

A march and a standing protest outside of the stadium perhaps? If the idea has traction I'd suggest it's even worth the club putting on coaches and building an event around it?

I would certainly consider travelling to it?

Cheers,

Dave.

JDH1
JDH1
18 February, 2020 16:23
Some great open letters from donny and Bedford chairmen. The rfu decision was plucked from thin air! Citing all these outcomes that were not met, that the clubs knew nothing about.
Just shows the what those in charge of the rfu actually think about rugby. They couldn't give a f*#k. What a joke.

Carnegiette2
Carnegiette2
18 February, 2020 18:09
Quote:
JDH1
Some great open letters from donny and Bedford chairmen. The rfu decision was plucked from thin air! Citing all these outcomes that were not met, that the clubs knew nothing about.
Just shows the what those in charge of the rfu actually think about rugby. They couldn't give a f*#k. What a joke.

The letters have some very good points- but can’t help feeling they could be edited to be shorter and snappier than they are. Arguably would be more impactful.

Have heard rumours of a lawsuit- wouldn’t be cheap though

MESSAGES->author
almostatyke
18 February, 2020 20:13
Does anyone think that demonstrating when our national team is playing could be judged by others as disloyal?
Looking at spectator numbers you can see that loads of people turn up at Twickers that probably have never been to a Championship match in their life, so why should they care? But they will remember some pesky, disloyal demonstrators: probably.
TV cameras will edit stuff out.

Something a bit more canny required IMHO.

MESSAGES->author
Madtyke
18 February, 2020 20:39
Well as the likes of the Beeb and ITN have totally ignored the protest marches by 1000s of ex-service personnel about Soldier F I'd expect a minor protest at Twickers would alao be ignored. As for the prawn sandwich munchers sat watching a 6N game, they couldn't give a toss.



[www.arborfieldoldboys.co.uk]

MESSAGES->author
almostatyke
19 February, 2020 18:43
You have a way with words, MT!

JDH1
JDH1
19 February, 2020 19:56
They should have kept the cup where champ plays prem. Give all prem teams and fans exposure of a champ club. A possible have a double header at Twickenham where a championship fixture was played before a prem fixture.
The rfu do and have done f#*k all to help promote our league when they could have done so much with little effort.

daveyjp
daveyjp
21 February, 2020 12:28
Looks like there is some slight row back with mention of a two season period to reduce the money.

[www.bbc.co.uk]

Nottingham Rugby Chair has also published his thoughts.

It appears Sweeney can't rid himself of Olympic sports funding model whereby they only fund if success is expected. Success in Olympics is easy to measure, not sure sure it is as simple with rugby. There certainly aren't enough playing opportunities at Premiership clubs to bring players through.


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